GOG just got new larger Octavias

[kenny]

Interesting they went to AGS this time instead of GIA. . .

1.57 ct G VS2
1.53 ct J VS1

Link

No pics or data yet.

 

[Doomus]

Looks like the 1.57 is already gone...

 

[Rhino]

Actually posted prematurely.

A third is arriving this week from Diagem too. A 1.6xct. which will be viewed by the person who has a hold on the 1.57ct and will be sent to AGS or GIA after the weekend. These are nice sizes

. You have a great size too!

 

[JulieN]

Are they going to get DQDs?

 

[starshine]

A few new AVC''s as well!

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:57:09 AM
Author: JulieN
Are they going to get DQDs?

DQR
They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.
While I am considering it I don''t really want to at this point.
Losing the 1/2% to 1% just because they are .02ct and .05ct to heavy for the diameter for ags0 overall doesn''t appeal to me right now.
Some will qualify the way they are being cut.
Also I am not willing to discount for sym/polish when it has no effect on performance.
Cutting step cuts is not cookie cutter like rounds, each is an art sculpture in itself.
Those are the 2 reasons there are virtually no ags0 step cuts on the market.
So at this time they will be DQR

 

[Volare]

The very first AVCs were GIA certed too, but now I think they are all AGS. Not sure why...

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 9:27:34 AM
Author: Volare
The very first AVCs were GIA certed too, but now I think they are all AGS. Not sure why...

Faster turn around time for getting them back, about the same cost, and same or better quality color/clarity grading for consumers.
AGS grading is accepted right up there with GIA.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 3/17/2010 9:16:02 AM
Author: Karl_K

Date: 3/17/2010 5:57:09 AM

Author: JulieN

Are they going to get DQDs?

DQR

They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.

While I am considering it I don''t really want to at this point.

Losing the 1/2% to 1% just because they are .02ct and .05ct to heavy for the diameter for ags0 overall doesn''t appeal to me right now.

Some will qualify the way they are being cut.

Also I am not willing to discount for sym/polish when it has no effect on performance.

Cutting step cuts is not cookie cutter like rounds, each is an art sculpture in itself.

Those are the 2 reasons there are virtually no ags0 step cuts on the market.

So at this time they will be DQR

Yep, I I kinda figured you would be against it.

 

[whatmeworry]

Date: 3/17/2010 9:16:02 AM
Author: Karl_K

Date: 3/17/2010 5:57:09 AM
Author: JulieN
Are they going to get DQDs?

DQR
They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.
While I am considering it I don''t really want to at this point.
Losing the 1/2% to 1% just because they are .02ct and .05ct to heavy for the diameter for ags0 overall doesn''t appeal to me right now.
Some will qualify the way they are being cut.
Also I am not willing to discount for sym/polish when it has no effect on performance.
Cutting step cuts is not cookie cutter like rounds, each is an art sculpture in itself.
Those are the 2 reasons there are virtually no ags0 step cuts on the market.
So at this time they will be DQR

Don''t do it !!! I seriously don''t care if they get AGS0 or not. It would lose some of its charm, in my opinion.

 

[kenny]

Looks like the 1.53 is gone now.
Either it's sold or maybe they pulled it down till pics are ready.

So AGS Diamond Quality Document's cut grade measure how much light return comes out of the top of the diamond?
It is an optical test as opposed to a calculation based on angles?

So would changing the Octavia to ensure that all of them would get AGS 0 for cut grade change the Octavia's personality, look, pattern, alter contrast or something?

I think I understand the dilema of getting a report that might give an Octavia AGS1 for cut instead of AGS0.
Even though the look of a particular Octavia that got AGS1 may be exactly within the range the designer wants, customers are not as sophisticated and educated as the designer and rely heavily on AGS cut grade as an indicator of cut quality.

 

[kenny]

Karl, you wrote, "They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish."

Forgive me, but does AGS now grade the cut of stepped cuts?

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:52:51 PM
Author: kenny
Karl, you wrote, ''They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.''


Forgive me, but does AGS now grade the cut of stepped cuts?

yes emerald and asschers but no one uses them.
They are impractical in the real world.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 3/17/2010 9:16:02 AM
Author: Karl_K
Losing the 1/2% to 1% just because they are .02ct and .05ct to heavy for the diameter for ags0 overall doesn''t appeal to me right now.

Why doesn''t it appeal to you?
Would the stone perform weaker?
Or is it only a yield issue?

 

[kenny]

If it is a yield issue then it is a money issue.

Might every Octavia achieving the coveted AGS0 cut grade justify a higher price to compensate for that weight loss?

 

[debi1960]

Re: 1.57 VS2-Thats for me!! I am so excited. My husband and I are going to meet Jonathan and his staff in Long Island on Saturday.

I will definitely let you all know what diamond and setting I end up with.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:42:51 PM
Author: kenny
Looks like the 1.53 is gone now.


So AGS Diamond Quality Document''s cut grade measure how much light return comes out of the top of the diamond?

It is an optical test as opposed to a calculation based on angles? the light performance portion is based on potential light return based on ASET with a few added considerations. Then to get an overall grade of 0 it has to pass a arbitrary proportions test which Octavia does not currently pass.

So would changing the Octavia to ensure that all of them would get AGS 0 for cut grade change the Octavia''s personality, look, pattern, alter contrast or something?
I haven''t done a full study on it yet but it is a rule that if you change one thing you have to change another.

I think I understand the dilema of getting a report that might give an Octavia AGS1 for cut instead of AGS0.

Even though the look of a particular Octavia that got AGS1 may be exactly within the range the designer wants, customers are not as sophisticated and educated as the designer and rely heavily on AGS cut grade as an indicator of cut quality.

That is correct if it has the performance we designed into it and the look we want I don''t really care what the AGS grade is.

 

[kenny]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:08:03 PM
Author: Karl_K

Date: 3/17/2010 4:52:51 PM
Author: kenny
Karl, you wrote, ''They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.''
Forgive me, but does AGS now grade the cut of stepped cuts?

yes emerald and asschers but no one uses them.
They are impractical in the real world.

Why not?
Is AGS''s opinion on good cut different from yours and that of other cut experts?
Would AGS0 asschers/emerald-cuts be low in yield?

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:12:07 PM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 3/17/2010 9:16:02 AM

Author: Karl_K

Losing the 1/2% to 1% just because they are .02ct and .05ct to heavy for the diameter for ags0 overall doesn''t appeal to me right now.

Why doesn''t it appeal to you?

Would the stone perform weaker?

Or is it only a yield issue?

I like the proportions and performance we get now.
It would change if we changed the formula.
I could maybe make it so its not a downgrade but what is the point?
The yield difference isn''t really enough to bother about.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:19:24 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 3/17/2010 5:08:03 PM

Author: Karl_K

Date: 3/17/2010 4:52:51 PM

Author: kenny

Karl, you wrote, ''They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.''

Forgive me, but does AGS now grade the cut of stepped cuts?

yes emerald and asschers but no one uses them.

They are impractical in the real world.

Why not?

Is AGS''s opinion on good cut different from yours and that of other cut experts?

Would AGS0 asschers/emerald-cuts be low in yield?

The main reason is that with step cuts getting ideal/ideal polish/sym is harder than with rounds.
No cutter of step cuts is going to want to discount based on vg/vg polish/sym.
The secondary reason is weight retention.
The third reason is getting them right is a pita in the best case and the highest performance areas it is even more so.
With Octavia we have a different enough product that we can justifiably sell it at a premium it takes to cut it.
They feel there is not enough premium to make up for the downside with more conventional asschers.
I think they are right but maybe some day we will try it :}

 

[kenny]

Thanks Karl.

 

[kenny]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:17:50 PM
Author: debi1960
Re: 1.57 VS2-Thats for me!!
I am so excited.
My husband and I are going to meet Jonathan and his staff in Long Island on Saturday.

Oh Boy! Can't wait to hear your reaction.
You know, don't you, that asschers including Octavias face up smaller than rounds for the same weight, don't you?

 

[Stephan]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:21:50 PM
Author: Karl_K
It would change if we changed the formula.

I hear you.
So would the light performance be not as good?
Or are you afraid to lose the actual pattern?
I think you are wrong by thinking a few % yield are not important.
And I think you are wrong by thinking an AGS0 paper is something that is not worth a few% yield.
EightStar also thinks a cut grade on a certificate is not important, and I understand them too, but I don''t know if they sell that much nowadays.
I really think you are a genius, and I will keep follow your creations.
But be aware that some people are willing to pay huge premiums for diamonds with great spread. And you could be the first on that path!

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/17/2010 9:16:02 AM
Author: Karl_K

Date: 3/17/2010 5:57:09 AM
Author: JulieN
Are they going to get DQDs?

DQR
They get AGS0 light performance(blows it away) but we would have to most likely drop the crown height 1/2 to one percent to consistently get overall 0 with ideal sym/polish.
While I am considering it I don''t really want to at this point.
Losing the 1/2% to 1% just because they are .02ct and .05ct to heavy for the diameter for ags0 overall doesn''t appeal to me right now.
Some will qualify the way they are being cut.
Also I am not willing to discount for sym/polish when it has no effect on performance.
Cutting step cuts is not cookie cutter like rounds, each is an art sculpture in itself.
Those are the 2 reasons there are virtually no ags0 step cuts on the market.
So at this time they will be DQR

Karl, what are the AGS spread parameters/limitations based on? Do you know?

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:45:33 PM
Author: DiaGem
Karl, what are the AGS spread parameters/limitations based on? Do you know?

It is arbitrary as far as I know for fancies.
For rounds it is based on tolk.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:29:59 PM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 3/17/2010 5:21:50 PM

Author: Karl_K

It would change if we changed the formula.

I hear you.

So would the light performance be not as good?

Or are you afraid to lose the actual pattern?

I think you are wrong by thinking a few % yield are not important.

And I think you are wrong by thinking an AGS0 paper is something that is not worth a few% yield.

EightStar also thinks a cut grade on a certificate is not important, and I understand them too, but I don''t know if they sell that much nowadays.

I really think you are a genius, and I will keep follow your creations.

But be aware that some people are willing to pay huge premiums for diamonds with great spread. And you could be the first on that path!

24%+ crown height is never going to have "great" spread.
Getting it to an acceptable level was hard enough.
IE: we are in the same ballpark as what is on the market for spread.
Better then a lot of them.
We could lose ~20% of the performance it has and still get ags0 that doesn''t mean we are going to do so.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 3/17/2010 6:01:39 PM
Author: Karl_K
We could lose ~20% of the performance it has and still get ags0 that doesn't mean we are going to do so.

If that is the case, you are right, keep cutting the same way!

But now I don't understand anymore: how could a diamond lose that much performance and still be AGS0?
I guess you are saying the diamond would look worse when tilted?
What kind of performance are the 20% that we would lose?

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/17/2010 6:09:45 PM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 3/17/2010 6:01:39 PM

Author: Karl_K

We could lose ~20% of the performance it has and still get ags0 that doesn''t mean we are going to do so.

If that is the case, you are right, keep cutting the same way!

But now I don''t understand anymore: how could a diamond lose that much performance and still be AGS0? I guess you are saying the diamond would look worse when tilted?

What kind of performance are the 20% that we would loose?

Each cut has different parameters that would get AGS0 the brightness criteria for a princess cut is lower than a round and a step cut lower than a princess.
We would still get AGS0 using the harsher princess scale.

 

[Stephan]

Thank you for your answers.
Let us know when your first cushion is cut.

 

[isaku5]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:17:50 PM
Author: debi1960
Re: 1.57 VS2-Thats for me!! I am so excited. My husband and I are going to meet Jonathan and his staff in Long Island on Saturday.

I will definitely let you all know what diamond and setting I end up with.

Congratulations!!!! You''re a lucky woman.

Please take lots of pics so that the rest of us can live vicariously once again. Kenny''s beauty started it!

A while ago, I stated that I hoped one day to have one of Karl''s creations. That hope is alive and well