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GIA VS Apraisal

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2015
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We bought an OEC diamond ring from a very well respected vendor here. (probably about a month ago) We recently had the ring appraised, and the appraisal didn't even come anywhere near the price we paid for it. I really trust the vendor over the appraiser. However, we had it appraised for insurance purposes, and there's no way I could replace the ring for the appraisal he gave me. Can someone take a look at these and tell me what I should do next?

He graded it as L-M as he wasn't "aware" of the new diamond color grading system. (That should have been our first clue, I guess. We went to a jeweler who specializes in antiques and antique jewelry because we thought he would know more about the old cuts than people who only deal in the new cuts)

4_98.jpg gia_6173217391_cert.jpg apprasial.jpg

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I feel like I just need to get another appraisal, but I wanted to run this by all of you experts first.
 

darren

Rough_Rock
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Sep 30, 2009
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Looks like he just made an error on the calculations. I'm not sure why the appraisal says that the center diamond is a 1.5ct. Looks like his calculations were at full rap for a 2.5ct diamond with a I2 clarity plus a small percentage. The GIA cert says I1 clarity which changes the per carat amount and total amount for the diamond greatly. There is a quite a jump in amount from an I2 to an I1.

I would suggest that you have another appraiser take a look at the ring. https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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HI Red,
TO make sure I understand- did you purchase the diamond with a GIA report, and did not show the report to the appraiser?
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 10, 2015
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563
How does he list those dimensions and says it's 1.5ct? You should go back to him and have this addressed. Perhaps he'll realize that it is in fact 2.5ct and that should at least double the appraisal value.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Ring up your appraiser and talk to them about it. Their contact information should be included in the body of the report.

I see two major topics.

I-1 vs I-2 is a big deal, even if it is a borderline call. Given that you've got a GIA report calling it I-1, I think you've got a pretty good case that the replacement would need to be accompanied by a similar report to be 'like kind and quality'. Did you show it to him?

There looks to be a math error here. The difference between 1.50 and 2.50 is a huge topic and the dimensions support approximately 2.50cts. Again, given that you've got a GIA inspection, it may be worthwhile to show him that in making your case.
 

alamana

Shiny_Rock
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Sep 18, 2015
Messages
195
Rockdiamond|1444415915|3936707 said:
HI Red,
TO make sure I understand- did you purchase the diamond with a GIA report, and did not show the report to the appraiser?

I wondered about this, too ... (Went to an appraiser today myself and he did his own measurements and analysis with the diamond and then went over the GIA certificate comparing.)
 

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2015
Messages
27
Rockdiamond|1444415915|3936707 said:
HI Red,
TO make sure I understand- did you purchase the diamond with a GIA report, and did not show the report to the appraiser?

Nope. He had the GIA report right in front of him. He had to call a relative of his because he didn't realize grading goes all the way down to z now.
 

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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He did keep saying that the measurements were "off", but then when he saw the map of the occlusions he did realize it was the correct diamond. I really suspect that we unfortunately chose someone who did not know what he was doing.

His name is on the report, we just chose to leave that out, as I didn't want to publicize his name.

I also don't understand the part that says that the diamond weighs approximately 1.5 carats 2.5 dwt. I don't even know what that means.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Just to avoid confusion since you mentioned it twice. The GIA scale has gone all the way to Z since it was developed in the 30s. To the extent that there's anything new here it's that Q-R is a single grade rather than two. That's been the way for as long as I can recall but originally I think that was two grades, not one.

dwt. is the abbreviation for pennyweight. 1 dwt - 1.55 grams. 2.5dwt is probably the total weight of the ring.
 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
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Yes, he didn't know what he was doing. I have no idea why he decided to disagree with the GIA report!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Sounds like one of them Appraisal/barbershop/locksmith/slaughterhouse/babysitting service operations. They do a lot of things, none of them well:)
Seriously- everything you've said indicated you are owed a refund because the person doing the appraisal is not qualified.
 

Red_Velvette

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denverappraiser|1444417749|3936733 said:
Just to avoid confusion since you mentioned it twice. The GIA scale has gone all the way to Z since it was developed in the 30s. To the extent that there's anything new here it's that Q-R is a single grade rather than two. That's been the way for as long as I can recall but originally I think that was two grades, not one.

dwt. is the abbreviation for pennyweight. 1 dwt - 1.55 grams. 2.5dwt is probably the total weight of the ring.

I apologize. When we were there he said a stone with my alphabetical grade would be brown. :/ I assumed that things had changed since he began appraising rings. (because he told me that)

Surprisingly, he just called me. (I had been asking for him to finish this appraisal for two weeks now, and he was returning a call I made a few days ago.) I asked him about the difference in the two reports (just the size, I didn't even mention the I2 vs I1) and he said he would look at his notes (on his computer) and call me tomorrow. I guess I'll have to mention the clarity grading at that time as well.

I feel like he should just give me my money back as I don't really trust him to get this right. Would you go to someone else, or just trust this guy to "fix" his appraisal?
 

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2015
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Rockdiamond|1444418484|3936735 said:
Sounds like one of them Appraisal/barbershop/locksmith/slaughterhouse/babysitting service operations. They do a lot of things, none of them well:)
Seriously- everything you've said indicated you are owed a refund because the person doing the appraisal is not qualified.

He runs an antique shop, and sells everything in his shop at top retail price. (including the jewelry) I guarantee that he would be asking much more than his appraisal price for this ring.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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The guy is a seller...... that's just another nail in the impartiality, knowledge coffin.

I'd as politely as possible ask for a refund. IMO the "appraiser" has proven themselves to be unsuitable if you're looking for an accurate knowledgeable opinion.
 

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2015
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Rockdiamond|1444419074|3936740 said:
The guy is a seller...... that's just another nail in the impartiality, knowledge coffin.

I'd as politely as possible ask for a refund. IMO the "appraiser" has proven themselves to be unsuitable if you're looking for an accurate knowledgeable opinion.

Thank you. I will try, although I suspect what the answer will be there. I'll probably have to file this one under "stupid tax." :(
 

Red_Velvette

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I wanted to thank everyone who replied to this thread and gave me direction. I really do appreciate it. :))
 

Coralfish

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Oh dear. Is there a regulator for the appraisal industry in the USA? Or even for the trade, as he is a retail jeweller as I understand it. Imagine if you weren't as well-informed as you are, that would be a disastrous appraisal to turn over to an insurance company. What if you had inherited the ring.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Choose the finest jewelry store in your town, call and ask if they have a qualified gemologist who will do an insurance appraisal of an antique diamond for you. I have a feeling that your antique dealer is not a jeweler. Otherwise, you could send the diamond to an independent appraiser like Neil if there are none in your city.
 

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2015
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Ok, thank you. I am sharing all of this with my fiancee. That sounds like a great idea.
 

southLA504

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diamondseeker2006|1444444730|3936861 said:
Choose the finest jewelry store in your town, call and ask if they have a qualified gemologist who will do an insurance appraisal of an antique diamond for you. I have a feeling that your antique dealer is not a jeweler. Otherwise, you could send the diamond to an independent appraiser like Neil if there are none in your city.

THIS.
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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WOW. Why on Earth would a Q-R have to be brown?

Find a recommended appraiser here. This would be a joke if it had not been a bad experience. I bet you were shocked when he came back with a value much lower than what you paid.
 

Red_Velvette

Rough_Rock
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Sunstorm|1444474933|3936911 said:
WOW. Why on Earth would a Q-R have to be brown?

Find a recommended appraiser here. This would be a joke if it had not been a bad experience. I bet you were shocked when he came back with a value much lower than what you paid.

I really was. Of course there were things that had concerned me from the beginning, so, it wasn't as much of a shock as it would have been coming with someone more professional. You live and you learn...
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
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Coralfish|1444444320|3936860 said:
Is there a regulator for the appraisal industry in the USA?

This is one of the interesting parts about our industry. The short answer is No. Odd, isnt it? Even hairdressers must be licensed by the state to work, but you need NO credentials or licenses to open shop and promote yourself as a jewelry appraiser. And, sadly, it happens all the time.

There ARE credentials… GIA Graduate Gemologist (GG) is most common, but in my opinion even those courses fail to cover cut-quality assessment adequately. Once you have the GG you can proceed through other courses. The most prestigious (arguably) is the ICGA credential awarded by the American Gem Society. It requires progress through GG, CG and CGA - quite an achievement.

I agree with those above suggesting you consider Neil Beaty. In addition to being a nice and honest guy he possesses that ICGA diploma. I believe he is one of fewer than 50 on the planet who have achieved that level.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for the plugs folks.

The GG from GIA is not an appraisal credential, it’s a gemological credential. GIA doesn’t claim otherwise and, in fact, the GG program doesn’t even include a single course in appraising but it's still a very common misunderstanding. Skilled jewelry appraisers are all GG’s (or equivalent) but the reverse is definitely not the case.

I’m definitely a fan of the ICGA program from AGS (www.americangemsociety.org) and I’m happy to plug it but there are others as well and it would be doing a disservice not to mention them in this thread. These are in no particular order. I do have some preferences for some of the programs and anyone who wants to be a jewelry appraiser when they grow up is welcome to contact me to discuss the differences. The key here is that they actually do teach appraising, they do teach valuation theory, they do offer credentials, and every one of them has an online lookup system for their graduates. As far as I know, every one requires a GG or equivalent as a prerequisite to even entering the program. Most have several programs or levels of achievement that differ in terms of how many classes are involved, how many hours of experience are required and how much and how often testing or retesting is needed. Details are on their respective websites.

American Society of appraisers (www.appraisers.org)
National Association of Jewelry Appraisers (www.najaappraisers.com)
International Society of Appraisers (www.isa-appraisers.org)
Master Valuer Program (www.mastervaluer.com)
Appraisers International Society (www.aisociety.com )
International School of Gemology (www.schoolofgemology.com)
 
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