GIA very good cut, good value?

[scepture]

I have been searching for diamonds online for some time now, and just came across a 1.26 H SI2 (GIA cert. #512150104 for $6700. If you don't want to look up the cert, the details are as follow: Polish-VG, Symmetry-EX, no fluor, thin/slightly thick, table-56%, depth-60.9%, crown angle- 33, pavilion angle-40.8.

I also ran it through the AGA/NAJA cut class tool on PS with an overall total grade of 1B (all 1A except crown angle 1B and girdle 1B).

The HCA is <2 (light return, fire and scintillation are excellent, spread is very good). I know that the GIA cut and HCA are not lock step with each other (and it has been shown on here many times that they can sometimes be very out of touch with each other), but on a general first impression is this a decent value for the stone? I know seeing the IS/ASET image would be very helpful, but I do not believe that the online retailer (who is a PS vendor) provides them. I have emailed asking for further clarification, but seeing that it is a stone that is offered at multiple vendors, I am anticipating some time before they are able to call it in.

Your thought and opinions are appreciated! Thanks.

 

[yssie]

I have been searching for diamonds online for some time now, and just came across a 1.26 H SI2 (GIA cert. #512150104 for $6700. If you don't want to look up the cert, the details are as follow: Polish-VG, Symmetry-EX, no fluor, thin/slightly thick, table-56%, depth-60.9%, crown angle- 33, pavilion angle-40.8.

The HCA is <2 (light return, fire and scintillation are excellent, spread is very good). I know that the GIA cut and HCA are not lock step with each other (and it has been shown on here many times that they can sometimes be very out of touch with each other), but on a general first impression is this a decent value for the stone? I know seeing the IS/ASET image would be very helpful, but I do not believe that the online retailer (who is a PS vendor) provides them. I have emailed asking for further clarification, but seeing that it is a stone that is offered at multiple vendors, I am anticipating some time before they are able to call it in.

Your thought and opinions are appreciated! Thanks.

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=5121501048&weight=1.26

cut grade reduced b/c of crown/pav combo - if crown was slightly steeper or pav slightly deeper cut grade would be EX. I would certainly consider having it called in and getting your vendor's opinion, and if possible a scan/photos, it could be overly shallow or a nice virtual find, depending on what sorts of ranges went into those rounded averaged numbers on the report and if the wisps aren't inhibiting brilliance/it's eyeclean to your specifications whatever those are (6" faceup? 12"? through the crown tilt? w/ 20/20 vision in most types of lighting)


ETA you can play w/ GIA facetware here https://www.gia.edu/_webapps/laboratory/facetware/


ETA jff some similarly proportioned stones -
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1384436.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1381914.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-IF-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1389440.asp

 

[scepture]

Thank you for the response and links, Yssie! The GIA cut tool is really helpful, in among another things, getting a good idea as to what proportion(s) of the diamond are causing the given cut grade.

A rep from the store got back to me and told me that he "is not a proponent [of IS/ASET images]", and added that he thought I wouldn't like the nature of the inclusions. A kind of short response of sorts, but at i'm glad he's honest I guess! I have been looking for 7+ months 'recreationally' (knowing that I would be buying a stone some time in the near future, but that near future is not too far away now... hopefully I find a decent value sometime soon!

 

[yssie]

Thank you for the response and links, Yssie! The GIA cut tool is really helpful, in among another things, getting a good idea as to what proportion(s) of the diamond are causing the given cut grade.

A rep from the store got back to me and told me that he "is not a proponent [of IS/ASET images]", and added that he thought I wouldn't like the nature of the inclusions. A kind of short response of sorts, but at i'm glad he's honest I guess! I have been looking for 7+ months 'recreationally' (knowing that I would be buying a stone some time in the near future, but that near future is not too far away now... hopefully I find a decent value sometime soon!

IS/ASET - a lot of people aren't. That's okay. A professional (an actual professional, not the Christmas help) certainly doesn't need ISs or ASETs to choose beautiful stones, and a buyer who wants that information always has the option of buying his/her own IS (http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp).

SI2 inclusions in larger stones are minefields. Some are gorgeous stones (I've had one), some are - pretty horrific. GIA/AGS make inclusion maps, quite literally - they look at the diamond and say "the inclusion is this big, and it's in this location, and it's this 'severe' compared to the other inclusions in this stone when looking through the 10x loupe". They're not telling you anything about naked eye visibility, how/if they affect light return... so your own eyes - or the eyes of a trusted professional who fully understands your expectations - really are invaluable here.

 

[Amys Bling]

good luck in your search! it stinks that stone's inclusions are not great.

 

[scepture]

UPDATE: While searching, I emailed several places about different diamonds. Through the commotion, I realized I asked two different retailers about the same stone that is listed above. The one came back and said, "I'm pretty sure you wont like the nature of the inclusion of the diamond". However, I just received a message back from another that said that he talked to the cutter (or whoever holds the virtual stones in this case) and "the diamond is clean to the naked eye".

I just asked about having it called in to potentially get some real life pictures of it, but I just thought it was odd how the opinions differed. I should add that I don't know if the first one who said I wouldn't like the inclusions had even looked at or talked to anyone about it. I'll keep you posted!

 

[yssie]

UPDATE: While searching, I emailed several places about different diamonds. Through the commotion, I realized I asked two different retailers about the same stone that is listed above. The one came back and said, "I'm pretty sure you wont like the nature of the inclusion of the diamond". However, I just received a message back from another that said that he talked to the cutter (or whoever holds the virtual stones in this case) and "the diamond is clean to the naked eye".

I just asked about having it called in to potentially get some real life pictures of it, but I just thought it was odd how the opinions differed. I should add that I don't know if the first one who said I wouldn't like the inclusions had even looked at or talked to anyone about it. I'll keep you posted!

Clean to the naked eye.. from what distance? At what angles? In what types of lighting? W/ 20/20 vision?
What, specifically, about the nature of the inclusion(s) would you not like?
Those are both very vague statements... I would want clarification from both vendors. And if there are no alternate contenders I'd most likely just pony up to have the stone pulled anyway, and make up my own mind, but maybe that's just me!

 

[tyty333]

UPDATE: While searching, I emailed several places about different diamonds. Through the commotion, I realized I asked two different retailers about the same stone that is listed above. The one came back and said, "I'm pretty sure you wont like the nature of the inclusion of the diamond". However, I just received a message back from another that said that he talked to the cutter (or whoever holds the virtual stones in this case) and "the diamond is clean to the naked eye".

I just asked about having it called in to potentially get some real life pictures of it, but I just thought it was odd how the opinions differed. I should add that I don't know if the first one who said I wouldn't like the inclusions had even looked at or talked to anyone about it. I'll keep you posted!

Please post the real life pictures...wonder who is right on this one! Very interesting.

 

[Karl_K]

twinning wisps - is why the one vendor is saying you wouldn't like it.

They have a somewhat deserved reputation for not being good because they can appear eyeclean but impact light return however a vendor who knows what to look for can tell you if that is the case with this stone.
It should also be checked for strain.

The angle combination works if the angles are close together and the optical symmetry is decent.

This is one of those stones that it is impossible to even begin to evaluate on paper or even pictures.

Talk to the vendor who talked to the cutter and about the above and see if they are willing to pull it in for an evaul and how much $$ to do so then go from there.

 

[scepture]

The retailer got back to me today (wonderful customer service from Union Diamonds)... they gave me pictures of the ring and an IS image. I am hesitant though because he said, "it’s a nice looking stone, bright, white and clean to the naked eye. There is a very slight haze to the stone which most people may not pick up." The "slight haze" part really worries me, but attached is the IS image and pictures of the diamond, so please tell me what you think! Mind you, i'm not looking for 'perfect h&a', but a good value for my budget. Thanks in advance!

 

[yssie]

The retailer got back to me today (wonderful customer service from Union Diamonds)... they gave me pictures of the ring and an IS image. I am hesitant though because he said, "it’s a nice looking stone, bright, white and clean to the naked eye. There is a very slight haze to the stone which most people may not pick up." The "slight haze" part really worries me, but attached is the IS image and pictures of the diamond, so please tell me what you think! Mind you, i'm not looking for 'perfect h&a', but a good value for my budget. Thanks in advance!

Yeah - "slight haze" would be a deal breaker for me.

 

[stone-cold11]

The image is not well taken, diamond is placed too far into the idealscope.

 

[scepture]

I am curious to know more about the 'slight haze' issue. Should I ask for a re-take of the IS image as Stone-Cold suggested? Or, is the haze such an issue that it's not even worth pursuing??

 

[yssie]

I am curious to know more about the 'slight haze' issue. Should I ask for a re-take of the IS image as Stone-Cold suggested? Or, is the haze such an issue that it's not even worth pursuing??

IS isn't sensitive enough to pick up slight reduction in brilliance thanks to diffuse widespread clouds, etc. I would trust the professional's opinion on this one, and not bother spending the time and money to have it shipped out. You're looking for an RB, there's no dearth of those - I think you can afford to be pickier

 

[Dreamer_D]

clight haze = no no no. Keep looking!

 

[Karl_K]

The retailer got back to me today (wonderful customer service from Union Diamonds)... they gave me pictures of the ring and an IS image. I am hesitant though because he said, "it’s a nice looking stone, bright, white and clean to the naked eye. There is a very slight haze to the stone which most people may not pick up." The "slight haze" part really worries me, but attached is the IS image and pictures of the diamond, so please tell me what you think! Mind you, i'm not looking for 'perfect h&a', but a good value for my budget. Thanks in advance!

Yeah - "slight haze" would be a deal breaker for me.

I agree