GIA to grade Labs Pass /Fail... 4 C's for Naturals only.

[Chelsea Palmer]

Hello Gary, and thank you. Please do not call that man mine in anyway. I am team 8647 and always have been.

I would blame late stage capitalism (and 47 is the poster child). If billionaires and their ilk weren’t destroying the balance of the economy so multitudes of people are going without basic necessities and struggling to stay housed and fed, then we’d all have more money for luxuries and demand would go up. But here we are: with the 1% strangling the rest of us. Lab diamonds hitting the market at just this time and it is hastening and magnifying it. But they aren’t at the core of the problem.

What is team 8647?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Morristown Daily Voice calls them "Fake"



Wentzel sold lab-grown diamonds as genuine diamonds and overvalued the worth and price of the jewelry by as much as $23,800, police said.
He is charged with theft by deception, criminal simulation, and falsifying or tampering with a record, police said.

Morristown Jeweler Sold Lab-Grown Diamonds As Genuine, Misrepresented Value: Cops

A 43-year-old Morristown jeweler was arrested and charged with selling fake diamonds, authorities in Mount Olive announced Tuesday, Aug. 12.On Tuesday, June 17, a victim told officers that Justin Wentzel, of Morristown, sold them three pie…

dailyvoice.com

I do like the term "Criminal Simulation"
"The crime of criminal simulation is designed to prevent deception and fraud by ensuring that consumers and businesses are not misled by fake or counterfeit goods. By making objects seem more valuable or authentic than they are, individuals can be defrauded or harmed, and the integrity of the marketplace can be undermined"

It’s a good term. My assumption is it’s meant to help people who are duped into buying knock-off designer handbags, or works of art and such. Since all diamonds are, of course, authentic (and if I’m mistaken, please tell me what an “inauthentic” diamond is), it wouldn’t apply here. A lab grown-diamond misrepresented as a mined diamond for the purpose of selling it at a higher cost is deceptive, of course, and I assume illegal. But an LGD is neither fake nor counterfeit.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Well-stated, Gypsy. Excellent post. Of course, however, LGDs are not replicas. They’re just a diamond formed in a different way. Even for me, a recent owner of a gorgeous LGD,I still struggle with realizing that it’s truly and actually a diamond. But it is.

I think Paris Jackson was engaged with a lab-grown diamond. And you got me thinking. I don’t know if lab-grown diamonds were popular when Kim Kardashian was robbed in Paris in that terrifying incident. Seems she had flaunted her enormous engagement ring from her then-husband Kanye West, on social media, and that’s how the robbers found out about it. Now, had that diamond been an LGD, and had she flaunted it as such on social media, she likely would not have gone through that horrific ordeal.

 

[Gypsy]

86 means to cancel or end. And the current administration is the 47th in our history. Specifically the president who heads the administration. It is a call to Impeach him and remove him from office.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

86 means to cancel or end. And the current administration is the 47th in our history. Specifically the president who heads the administration. It is a call to Impeach him and remove him from office.

I thought that might be what you meant!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hello Gary, and thank you. Please do not call that man mine in anyway. I am team 8647 and always have been.

I would blame late stage capitalism (and 47 is the poster child). If billionaires and their ilk weren’t destroying the balance of the economy so multitudes of people are going without basic necessities and struggling to stay housed and fed, then we’d all have more money for luxuries and demand would go up. But here we are: with the 1% strangling the rest of us. Lab diamonds hitting the market at just this time and it is hastening and magnifying it. But they aren’t at the core of the problem.

Your reply is way above my pay grade and intelligence Gypsy.
What are the numbers 8647 and 47?
Can you give me a simple persons reply please?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Your reply is way above my pay grade and intelligence Gypsy.
What are the numbers 8647 and 47?
Can you give me a simple persons reply please?

I asked the same question, Garry, although I had an idea of what this meant. “86” I think means to do away with something. And DJT is the 47th president. (Of course he was the 45th also.). I enjoy reading Gypsy’s posts. She’s a bit edgier than most.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hello Gary, and thank you. Please do not call that man mine in anyway. I am team 8647 and always have been.

I would blame late stage capitalism (and 47 is the poster child). If billionaires and their ilk weren’t destroying the balance of the economy so multitudes of people are going without basic necessities and struggling to stay housed and fed, then we’d all have more money for luxuries and demand would go up. But here we are: with the 1% strangling the rest of us. Lab diamonds hitting the market at just this time and it is hastening and magnifying it. But they aren’t at the core of the problem.

Thanks Chelsea for explaining Gypsy's offence at me saying HER president, when, as a foreigner, I meant the president of her nation.
Gypsy I understand wealth inequities and how divisive they can be.

So since you raised this topic - what exactly does the inequity issue have to do with natural and lab grown sales or whatever topic you have in mind?
For this topic, I would point out that the USA is far from the worst offender - the Gini coefficient is the measure of this - the worst offenders are basically corrupt nations - further down are wealthier nations, and USA is high but far from highest 9I am pleased to see that Australia ranks more equal than some European nations):
South Africa — 63.0 (2014)
Namibia — 59.1 (2015)
Colombia — 54.8 (2022)
Eswatini — 54.6 (2016)
Botswana — 53.3 (2015)
Brazil — 52.0 (2022)
Zambia — 51.5 (2022)
Angola — 51.3 (201
Mozambique — 50.3 (2019)
Zimbabwe — 50.3 (2019)
Republic of the Congo — 48.9 (2011)
Panama — 48.9 (2023)
Guatemala — 48.3 (2014)
Honduras — 48.2 (2019)
Costa Rica — 46.7 (2023)
Nicaragua — 46.2 (2014)
Comoros — 45.3 (2014)
Paraguay — 45.1 (2022)
Guyana — 45.0 (199
Lesotho — 44.9 (2017).
OECD Income Distribution Database (ordered highest → lower). I’m keeping values rounded to the nearest whole point on the 0–100 scale since vintages differ by country/year:

Colombia ~54 (latest)
Costa Rica ~47 (2023)
Mexico ~45 (2022)
Chile ~44 (2022)
Türkiye ~44 (≈2022)
United States ~40 (2022)
Israel ~39 (2022)
Latvia ~36 (2023, provisional)
Lithuania ~35 (2022)
United Kingdom ~36 (2023/24)
New Zealand ~35 (≈2020/21)
Spain ~35 (2022)
Portugal ~34 (2022)
Estonia ~33 (2022)
Greece ~33 (2022)
Australia ~33 (2021–22)
Italy ~33 (2022)
Korea ~33 (2022)
Japan ~33 (≈2018–20)
Canada ~32 (2023)

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Well, thank YOU, Garry, for this info, because at 6am I have already learned something new today. As far as the president, he appears to sow divisiveness. My aunt also says he’s “not [her] President”. When I am a little less bleary-eyed, I’m going to reread your post.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I asked the same question, Garry, although I had an idea of what this meant. “86” I think means to do away with something. And DJT is the 47th president. (Of course he was the 45th also.). I enjoy reading Gypsy’s posts. She’s a bit edgier than most.

I should also be clear that Gypsy had explained this to me in a previous post. I suspected this what it meant and she confirmed.

 

[Rockdiamond]

what exactly does the inequity issue have to do with natural and lab grown sales or whatever topic you have in mind?

From my perspective: lab diamonds have opened up vast new markets of buyers that could not purchase their “dream” diamond due to the prices of natural diamonds.
It’s totally revolutionized our business from a boutique colored diamond seller to a broad based engagement ring sellers.
People with lots of money are also choosing labs in surprisingly high numbers based on our experience

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

From my perspective: lab diamonds have opened up vast new markets of buyers that could not purchase their “dream” diamond due to the prices of natural diamonds.
It’s totally revolutionized our business from a boutique colored diamond seller to a broad based engagement ring sellers.
People with lots of money are also choosing labs in surprisingly high numbers based on our experience

I suspected folks with lots of money are also purchasing LGDs. I don’t know if these folks are the “millionaires next door”, but those are the type of folks that are judicious with spending their money. And good ol’-fashioned rich folk would also likely lean towards LGDs. I mean, why not?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

From my perspective: lab diamonds have opened up vast new markets of buyers that could not purchase their “dream” diamond due to the prices of natural diamonds.
It’s totally revolutionized our business from a boutique colored diamond seller to a broad based engagement ring sellers.
People with lots of money are also choosing labs in surprisingly high numbers based on our experience

I also think it opened the market for folks like me who conceivably COULD purchase a dream diamond but were unwilling to do so.

 

[Rockdiamond]

A large percentage of our long-term repeat clients have both natural and lab-grown.
Basically, people who started who own natural diamonds, switching to lab.
I can't recall someone who's switched from lab to natural.
It seems so clear which way the wind is blowing on this.
GIA, Rappaport and others are cementing their place in history...instead of going with the flow.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Something occurred to me about @Garry H (Cut Nut) and my perspectives......I'm kind of a hermit- and Garry has his finger on the pulse worldwide.

The diamond business I grew up in... and pretty much for all of post-WW2 history- the US was the primary market for diamonds.
I didn't need to worry about doodly squat- I could get whatever I needed.
Easily.
NYC was "the center of the world" in the rough and tumble polished diamond business.

The US being the center of the diamond market is ancient history.
Other retail markets have risen. China.
India now entirely dominates the rough diamond business as far as I can see.

Thankfully, we still have a very large and vibrant jewelry market.
Just not the center of the world anymore.
Thankfully for me, NYC is still hopping.
Lots of diamonds here.
In spite of talk of shortages, I can still find pretty much anything here- or at least in Surat.
I'm not buying for a large chain of stores, or a billion dollar website.....so there's that.
We have needed- and obtained natural diamonds all along.
I don't anticipate any issue in getting natural diamonds we might require.
The large Indian firms are so very efficient.....

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Something occurred to me about @Garry H (Cut Nut) and my perspectives......I'm kind of a hermit- and Garry has his finger on the pulse worldwide.

The diamond business I grew up in... and pretty much for all of post-WW2 history- the US was the primary market for diamonds.
I didn't need to worry about doodly squat- I could get whatever I needed.
Easily.
NYC was "the center of the world" in the rough and tumble polished diamond business.

The US being the center of the diamond market is ancient history.
Other retail markets have risen. China.
India now entirely dominates the rough diamond business as far as I can see.

Thankfully, we still have a very large and vibrant jewelry market.
Just not the center of the world anymore.
Thankfully for me, NYC is still hopping.
Lots of diamonds here.
In spite of talk of shortages, I can still find pretty much anything here- or at least in Surat.
I'm not buying for a large chain of stores, or a billion dollar website.....so there's that.
We have needed- and obtained natural diamonds all along.
I don't anticipate any issue in getting natural diamonds we might require.
The large Indian firms are so very efficient.....

I take it you are a jeweler, Rockdiamond?

 

[Gypsy]

I take it you are a jeweler, Rockdiamond?

Yes, Diamonds by Lauren. I just bought my engagement diamond from him. He has the trade badge.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

A large percentage of our long-term repeat clients have both natural and lab-grown.
Basically, people who started who own natural diamonds, switching to lab.
I can't recall someone who's switched from lab to natural.
It seems so clear which way the wind is blowing on this.
GIA, Rappaport and others are cementing their place in history...instead of going with the flow.

I’ve read posts about people who say they’re going to propose with a lab diamond and then down the road “upgrade” to a natural. I suspect that rarely happens. Probably the LGD they wind up with is so pretty and perfect that once they realize what the equivalent of that in natural would cost, they think better of it.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Yes, Diamonds by Lauren. I just bought my engagement diamond from him. He has the trade badge.

I’m terrible at this stuff. I meant to ask Rockdiamond. Thank you, Gypsy

 

[DejaWiz]

I’m terrible at this stuff. I meant to ask Rockdiamond. Thank you, Gypsy

Yes, Gypsy answered your question: Rockdiamond (David) is in the trade...he works for Diamonds by Lauren.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

From my perspective: lab diamonds have opened up vast new markets of buyers that could not purchase their “dream” diamond due to the prices of natural diamonds.
It’s totally revolutionized our business from a boutique colored diamond seller to a broad based engagement ring sellers.
People with lots of money are also choosing labs in surprisingly high numbers based on our experience

Agree - and a boon for jewelry manufacturers and custom benches - are you finding they are all super busy David?
Re the well heeled buyers - are they more self purchasers or just the same as usual David?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Garry has his finger on the pulse worldwide. Thankfully for me, NYC is still hopping.
Lots of diamonds here. In spite of talk of shortages, I can still find pretty much anything here- or at least in Surat.
I'm not buying for a large chain of stores, or a billion dollar website.....so there's that.
We have needed- and obtained natural diamonds all along.
I don't anticipate any issue in getting natural diamonds we might require.
The large Indian firms are so very efficient.....

Fact is David that probably half or more of the worlds available diamonds have been shipped to USA to beat the 50% tariffs from India.
Bask in it because if the 50% stays by January you will be faced with higher prices and huge shortages!
I am about to make a major post on the topic!

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

From my perspective: lab diamonds have opened up vast new markets of buyers that could not purchase their “dream” diamond due to the prices of natural diamonds.
It’s totally revolutionized our business from a boutique colored diamond seller to a broad based engagement ring sellers.
People with lots of money are also choosing labs in surprisingly high numbers based on our experience

Yes, even for people who. like natural diamonds, if it is a choice between having pretty LGD jewelry to wear and admire now and for another 50-60 years, versus not being able to wear the jewelry with earth diamonds until age ninety, I would sacrifice the preference for earth grown diamonds. In fact I actually have already bought one of my dream rings with a LGD center stone.

I’ve read posts about people who say they’re going to propose with a lab diamond and then down the road “upgrade” to a natural. I suspect that rarely happens. Probably the LGD they wind up with is so pretty and perfect that once they realize what the equivalent of that in natural would cost, they think better of it.

Yeah people who got a LGD for an e-ring at age 25 and get more disposable income at age 30 might just buy more diamonds! No more choosing between an upgraded e-ring versus a tennis bracelet; now we can keep our original e-ring, get another “upgraded” e-ring, and get the tennis bracelet, too.

A large percentage of our long-term repeat clients have both natural and lab-grown.
Basically, people who started who own natural diamonds, switching to lab.
I can't recall someone who's switched from lab to natural.
It seems so clear which way the wind is blowing on this.
GIA, Rappaport and others are cementing their place in history...instead of going with the flow.

Well, I agree, but… there’s also the idea of importing uncertified diamonds because the tariffs would be lower, then increasing their value by spending a modicum of effort grading them in a way that has no industry standard to argue with.

Fact is David that probably half or more of the worlds available diamonds have been shipped to USA to beat the 50% tariffs from India.
Bask in it because if the 50% stays by January you will be faced with higher prices and huge shortages!
I am about to make a major post on the topic!

What you say makes sense and large, high quality natural diamonds might cost more in the future. I wonder about the smaller, low color, low clarity, meh cut diamonds. Let’s say prices go up on those. Will people really want to receive a 1 carat K color SI2 natural diamond in a cheap solitaire setting versus a high color, high clarity, super ideal 1 carat LGD in a well-crafted setting by a recognizable designer?

I can see somebody wanting to flex a tennis bracelet made out of dozens of natural 1 carat meh diamonds, but I just don’t see the low to middle priced engagement ring market going back to natural meh diamonds over super sweet labs. But IANAE so curious to hear others’ thoughts.

 

[Gypsy]

I mean, it effects gem sales too. Colored diamonds have been out of range of average folks, except for canary diamonds. Green, red and blue? Nope. Pink's too are very expensive. But now? I can afford a diamond that isn't white. Easily. I've been wanting a chrome tourmaline or tsavorite for a while now. I bought one that I could afford, and it was still expensive, but it was too small and I ultimately returned it . I just found several two carat lab diamonds in the perfect green for me. 600 bucks. I am not in the position to buy right now because wedding. But when I am... I can get the hardness and refraction of a diamond with the color of a chrome tourmaline. In a two carat gemstone. And have LOTS of options to choose from.

My best friend wanted a pink sapphire engagement ring, she can get a pink diamond now instead.

So... that's something else to consider. And as the 'legitimacy' of the lab diamonds grows in public perception other lab gems are going to become more popular.

GIA can do what it wants. But I definitely think it's making the wrong decision and ultimately, another lab is going to gain prominence and relevance due to their snobbery.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

I mean, it effects gem sales too. Colored diamonds have been out of range of average folks, except for canary diamonds. Green, red and blue? Nope. Pink's too are very expensive. But now? I can afford a diamond that isn't white. Easily. I've been wanting a chrome tourmaline or tsavorite for a while now. I bought one that I could afford, and it was still expensive, but it was too small and I ultimately returned it . I just found several two carat lab diamonds in the perfect green for me. 600 bucks. I am not in the position to buy right now because wedding. But when I am... I can get the hardness and refraction of a diamond with the color of a chrome tourmaline. In a two carat gemstone. And have LOTS of options to choose from.

My best friend wanted a pink sapphire engagement ring, she can get a pink diamond now instead.

So... that's something else to consider. And as the 'legitimacy' of the lab diamonds grows in public perception other lab gems are going to become more popular.

GIA can do what it wants. But I definitely think it's making the wrong decision and ultimately, another lab is going to gain prominence and relevance due to their snobbery.

((Incidentally for green or bluish-green you might like moissanite, too.)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I mean, it effects gem sales too. Colored diamonds have been out of range of average folks, except for canary diamonds. Green, red and blue? Nope. Pink's too are very expensive. But now? I can afford a diamond that isn't white. Easily. I've been wanting a chrome tourmaline or tsavorite for a while now. I bought one that I could afford, and it was still expensive, but it was too small and I ultimately returned it . I just found several two carat lab diamonds in the perfect green for me. 600 bucks. I am not in the position to buy right now because wedding. But when I am... I can get the hardness and refraction of a diamond with the color of a chrome tourmaline. In a two carat gemstone. And have LOTS of options to choose from.

My best friend wanted a pink sapphire engagement ring, she can get a pink diamond now instead.

So... that's something else to consider. And as the 'legitimacy' of the lab diamonds grows in public perception other lab gems are going to become more popular.

GIA can do what it wants. But I definitely think it's making the wrong decision and ultimately, another lab is going to gain prominence and relevance due to their snobbery.

Low quality off white rough is now virtually worthless. Cheaper than lab rough which is easily to polish automatically.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Yes, even for people who. like natural diamonds, if it is a choice between having pretty LGD jewelry to wear and admire now and for another 50-60 years, versus not being able to wear the jewelry with earth diamonds until age ninety, I would sacrifice the preference for earth grown diamonds. In fact I actually have already bought one of my dream rings with a LGD center stone.



Yeah people who got a LGD for an e-ring at age 25 and get more disposable income at age 30 might just buy more diamonds! No more choosing between an upgraded e-ring versus a tennis bracelet; now we can keep our original e-ring, get another “upgraded” e-ring, and get the tennis bracelet, too.



Well, I agree, but… there’s also the idea of importing uncertified diamonds because the tariffs would be lower, then increasing their value by spending a modicum of effort grading them in a way that has no industry standard to argue with.



What you say makes sense and large, high quality natural diamonds might cost more in the future. I wonder about the smaller, low color, low clarity, meh cut diamonds. Let’s say prices go up on those. Will people really want to receive a 1 carat K color SI2 natural diamond in a cheap solitaire setting versus a high color, high clarity, super ideal 1 carat LGD in a well-crafted setting by a recognizable designer?

I can see somebody wanting to flex a tennis bracelet made out of dozens of natural 1 carat meh diamonds, but I just don’t see the low to middle priced engagement ring market going back to natural meh diamonds over super sweet labs. But IANAE so curious to hear others’ thoughts.

I don’t think anybody is buying a crappy diamond for an engagement anymore either. 100% agree with you. And I also don’t think they’re going to buy crappy diamonds for tennis bracelets either. And I even suspect some of the purists are going to be swayed eventually too.

 

[lulu_ma]

What you say makes sense and large, high quality natural diamonds might cost more in the future. I wonder about the smaller, low color, low clarity, meh cut diamonds. Let’s say prices go up on those. Will people really want to receive a 1 carat K color SI2 natural diamond in a cheap solitaire setting versus a high color, high clarity, super ideal 1 carat LGD in a well-crafted setting by a recognizable designer?

I will take K SI2 antique diamonds like this 2 ct all-day-long. Send them all to me!

(The center of the middle ring is a GIA K SI2. Center of the bottom ring is also a GIA K)

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I will take K SI2 antique diamonds like this 2 ct all-day-long. Send them all to me!

(The center of the middle ring is a GIA K SI2. Center of the bottom ring is also a GIA K)

yesss.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

yesss.

I believe oncrutches meant that when someone walks into a jewelry store to purchase a diamond, generally speaking are they going to choose the inferior diamond when they could get a superior diamond for a lot less money? Emphasis on the “generally speaking”.