GIA to grade Labs Pass /Fail... 4 C's for Naturals only.

[Chelsea Palmer]

Labs can have modifiers of all types, grey and blue (I think) being the most common. Some people (including me) can find it off putting. The only time I went out in search of lab studs (to sub for mine when I travel) I realised that all the ones I was finding in the size I needed were either too white (I didn’t want DEF, I wanted them to look like my own studs) or had an “off” appearance thanks to the grey modifier. You know how in naturals they tend to look a bit creamy/yellowish, occasionally brownish as you go down the colour chart? Labs can do that with grey or blue or pink or other colours. It looks “wrong” to my eyes and I find it jarring, like I can’t unsee it.

Perhaps I just had bad luck when I went - I haven’t tried to look again. But you’ll know the grey modifier the instant you see it, imo.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the time you took to explain. Then I guess it’s not true that lab diamonds and natural diamonds can only be told apart with special equipment. I’ve not had occasion to view a whole lot of diamonds in real life. I’ve seen on the color charts how diamonds very in color, but never in real life. My mined diamond solitaire is G color and my lab solitaire is D. I think my mined tennis bracelet has H color diamonds. Those are the only diamonds I’ve had the pleasure of seeing in real life.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the time you took to explain. Then I guess it’s not true that lab diamonds and natural diamonds can only be told apart with special equipment. I’ve not had occasion to view a whole lot of diamonds in real life. I’ve seen on the color charts how diamonds very in color, but never in real life. My mined diamond solitaire is G color and my lab solitaire is D. I think my mined tennis bracelet has H color diamonds. Those are the only diamonds I’ve had the pleasure of seeing in real life.

I think it’s not true for every diamond, but I’m sure there are many labs that are indistinguishable from naturals to the naked eye. I will say the differences are subtle but once you see it you can’t unsee it lol.

You actually wouldn’t be able to see anything in a D colour I think, except maybe some slight blurriness/haziness because of striations if they are present in the stone (I think CVD grown stones are prone to it, but not all have it). I would think that a D colour diamond would not have any tint or whatever since that’s a colour and D is supposed to be the absence of colour. So your D is probably a lovely stone and doesn’t have any of these possible “issues” that can crop up in labs.

All these differences are subtle enough that I think you would find it v difficult to spot on another person, but on yourself I think if it was there you would see it.

I do wonder how difficult it is for the experts to tell labs apart from naturals without the specialised equipment, with just a loupe and careful examination for example. I’ve seen my jeweller do it in front of me (he examines all jewellery before intake) - he looked at a customer’s ring given for repair and asked her if it was a lab after looking it over for a minute or so, and she confirmed it was.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I think it’s not true for every diamond, but I’m sure there are many labs that are indistinguishable from naturals to the naked eye. I will say the differences are subtle but once you see it you can’t unsee it lol.

You actually wouldn’t be able to see anything in a D colour I think, except maybe some slight blurriness/haziness because of striations if they are present in the stone (I think CVD grown stones are prone to it, but not all have it). I would think that a D colour diamond would not have any tint or whatever since that’s a colour and D is supposed to be the absence of colour. So your D is probably a lovely stone and doesn’t have any of these possible “issues” that can crop up in labs.

All these differences are subtle enough that I think you would find it v difficult to spot on another person, but on yourself I think if it was there you would see it.

I do wonder how difficult it is for the experts to tell labs apart from naturals without the specialised equipment, with just a loupe and careful examination for example. I’ve seen my jeweller do it in front of me (he examines all jewellery before intake) - he looked at a customer’s ring given for repair and asked her if it was a lab after looking it over for a minute or so, and she confirmed it was.

It’s my understanding that if an examines a diamond through a loupe and there are no inclusions, jeweler would generally assume it is a lab-grown diamond. I am no expert whatsoever, but my guess is that since a, say, D color 1.5-2-carat diamond with excellent quality and AGS triple zero or close to it would cost probably a minimum of $40,000, and most average folk are not walking around with $40,000 diamonds on their finger, a jeweler would assume a stone with those qualities was created in a lab. Sounds logical to me.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

It’s my understanding that if an examines a diamond through a loupe and there are no inclusions, jeweler would generally assume it is a lab-grown diamond. I am no expert whatsoever, but my guess is that since a, say, D color 1.5-2-carat diamond with excellent quality and AGS triple zero or close to it would cost probably a minimum of $40,000, and most average folk are not walking around with $40,000 diamonds on their finger, a jeweler would assume a stone with those qualities was created in a lab. Sounds logical to me.

No I asked him afterwards and he said he can tell by looking at the stone itself in many cases (I think he looks for things like striations or off tints but maybe he looks for high clarity). He said that if he isn’t sure he runs it through the machine in the back, but if it’s obvious to him he asks the customer. Though he rarely gets labs in from his customers (India jewellery market operates quite differently to the US).

 

[MMtwo]

Having had both, my labs have been far more perfect than my naturals. Very beautiful but homogenous.

The warmth, the fluorescence and (even is crazy as the sounds) I like small natural flaws. Tiny little crystal flaws are actually attractive in moderation.

My thought is though that the natural diamond markets can’t really recover when they have a optional replacement that has equal cultural acceptance. I can see the need to carve the niche for natural diamonds back out again.

I think there will be a market for lab forever, but soon they will have a value adjustment in the public eye, who are still in the novelty phase.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Having had both, my labs have been far more perfect than my naturals. Very beautiful but homogenous.

The warmth, the fluorescence and (even is crazy as the sounds) I like small natural flaws. Tiny little crystal flaws are actually attractive in moderation.

My thought is though that the natural diamond markets can’t really recover when they have a optional replacement that has equal cultural acceptance. I can see the need to carve the niche for natural diamonds back out again.

I think there will be a market for lab forever, but soon they will have a value adjustment in the public eye, who are still in the novelty phase.

I don’t think it sounds crazy at all that you prefer tiny flaws. You are not the only one apparently because someone else posted they thought lab diamonds were ugly as sin because of, if I remember correctly, their high color and lack of inclusions. Also gray modifiers, but original poster thought that might’ve been remediated. But what do you mean by “value adjustment”? I see folks using the word “value” a lot when it comes to lab grown diamonds and I’m really not sure what that is referring to.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

If “value” refers to monetary value, can’t someone propose to their intended with a ring from this collection? There are relatively pricey: https://jeandousset.com/collections/lab-grown-diamond-engagement-rings

 

[MMtwo]

If “value” refers to monetary value, can’t someone propose to their intended with a ring from this collection? There are relatively pricey: https://jeandousset.com/collections/lab-grown-diamond-engagement-rings

They are beautiful rings. I think that a 2,000 to 2,500 engagement ring is relatively inexpensive, but I may be out of touch. But what is this (besides a beautiful ring of course)?. We have a lab diamond in a ring, that looks simular to a 30,000 diamond ring, but bought for 2,500. Which is exactly what it is. Both the blessing and curse of it. But the value is 2,500, not 30,000. On resale, probably only 1,200 or so.

Four years ago, if you saw this in the wild, you would assume it was a fake diamond, or possibly a very wealthy person. Now, as the clerk at 7-11 is ringing you up rocking a 3 ct engagement ring...over time, will that large ring start to be seen as tacky? Of course, this is all imagining in my head, and I could be wrong. However I am old enough to know people and culture is judgy and fickle and always swinging on a pendulum of fad and new best practices.

You know, the Victorians created their array of cutlery and amazing complicated table settings to keep the status quo in order. It's a fake narrative, but it seems we odd humans love to aspire to something greater.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

They are beautiful rings. I think that a 2,000 to 2,500 engagement ring is relatively inexpensive, but I may be out of touch. But what is this (besides a beautiful ring of course)?. We have a lab diamond in a ring, that looks simular to a 30,000 diamond ring, but bought for 2,500. Which is exactly what it is. Both the blessing and curse of it. But the value is 2,500, not 30,000. On resale, probably only 1,200 or so.

Four years ago, if you saw this in the wild, you would assume it was a fake diamond, or possibly a very wealthy person. Now, as the clerk at 7-11 is ringing you up rocking a 3 ct engagement ring...over time, will that large ring start to be seen as tacky? Of course, this is all imagining in my head, and I could be wrong. However I am old enough to know people and culture is judgy and fickle and always swinging on a pendulum of fad and new best practices.

You know, the Victorians created their array of cutlery and amazing complicated table settings to keep the status quo in order. It's a fake narrative, but it seems we odd humans love to aspire to something greater.

The “value” is $2500? Or the cost is $2500? This is where I don’t understand what value means. And I agree that the 7-11 checkout clerk with the 3-carat diamond ring is tacky, but really because the 3-carat diamond ring is not a complementary accessory to the 7-11 uniform.

 

[MMtwo]

The “value” is $2500? Or the cost is $2500? This is where I don’t understand what value means. And I agree that the 7-11 checkout clerk with the 3-carat diamond ring is tacky, but really because the 3-carat diamond ring is not a complementary accessory to the 7-11 uniform.

I think you hit it exactly on the head! What is the perception of value vs cost. Is the value percieved to be the same as that 30k rock? In a nutshell, this is the whole crazy market situation. Add to this does the lab end up having infinite relative value as it was the ring given from a sweetheart? Is the ring values for the status, the emotional attachment, the value of metal and stone?

I think all of this is scrambled together, and the steps are being taken to unscramble things. But somewhere a 7-11 clerk is giddy with that 3ct diamond that is valued as a 30k ring in her heart.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I think you hit it exactly on the head! What is the perception of value vs cost. Is the value percieved to be the same as that 30k rock? In a nutshell, this is the whole crazy market situation. Add to this does the lab end up having infinite relative value as it was the ring given from a sweetheart? Is the ring values for the status, the emotional attachment, the value of metal and stone?

I think all of this is scrambled together, and the steps are being taken to unscramble things. But somewhere a 7-11 clerk is giddy with that 3ct diamond that is valued as a 30k ring in her heart.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Interesting. While I know that a natural equivalent of my LGD would cost approximately $50,000. I never thought of my LGD as having the value of $50,000. I just thought of it as costing $49,000 less than its natural counterpart. And while still not fully understanding what the term “value” means, I guess I certainly value that cost differential.

 

[MMtwo]

I agree that there is HUGE benefit to all that pocket money saved! Honestly, if I were a young person today, I would beeline to a lab. Things are tight all around, at least in the USA right now. Young folks are under strain.

Saying that, as the labs have come down, so have natural diamonds, or did for a whole while. I have a 2.25 I wear that is lab, and a 1.3 M natural with flourescence in the gold bezel. Both just under 2k out the door. Both beautiful! I do stalk the diamond seller websites.

I prefer the natural diamond, but that may be in my head.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I agree that there is HUGE benefit to all that pocket money saved! Honestly, if I were a young person today, I would beeline to a lab. Things are tight all around, at least in the USA right now. Young folks are under strain.

Saying that, as the labs have come down, so have natural diamonds, or did for a whole while. I have a 2.25 I wear that is lab, and a 1.3 M natural with flourescence in the gold bezel. Both just under 2k out the door. Both beautiful! I do stalk the diamond seller websites.

I prefer the natural diamond, but that may be in my head. Ignore the cat hair- sigh.

View attachment 1010786

No need to justify your preference. Personally I dont have a preference between mined and LGD. It’s strictly cost-related for me.

 

[MMtwo]

I'm sorry, I misread the "And while still not fully understanding what the term “value” means, I guess I certainly value that cost differential." as me not clarifying what I meant by value.

Have a good day.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I'm sorry, I misread the "And while still not fully understanding what the term “value” means, I guess I certainly value that cost differential." as me not clarifying what I meant by value.

Have a good day.

Yes, sometimes it takes forever for my brain to understand things, and this is clearly one of those times. By the way, both your rings are gorgeous.

 

[Rockdiamond]

No I asked him afterwards and he said he can tell by looking at the stone itself in many cases

I have to call BS on this.
It’s not possible to tell lab from mined except in rare cases. So rare that without testing equipment it’s not conclusive. Implying otherwise is misleading.
If a stone has strong blue, it’s likely mined. Brown? Likely mined.
But based on what I’ve seen it’s not responsible for a jewelry to claim to be able to tell conclusively by eye.
Too many variables

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I have to call BS on this.
It’s not possible to tell lab from mined except in rare cases. So rare that without testing equipment it’s not conclusive. Implying otherwise is misleading.
If a stone has strong blue, it’s likely mined. Brown? Likely mined.
But based on what I’ve seen it’s not responsible for a jewelry to claim to be able to tell conclusively by eye.
Too many variables

Possibly BS, but he’s not the BS-ing kind of guy. Though he doesn’t sell labs (most jewellers in India who sell naturals will not openly sell labs. It’s bad for business), so maybe he doesn’t get all that many in and the ones that he does get are obvious enough to merit asking the question before scanning through a machine. I’ve seen a lot of labs here with the off tints that would clearly imply lab grown, so maybe that’s what he looks for. I’m sure if he really suspected a stone was a lab he would test it even if the customer claimed it was natural (would almost have to, otherwise they could easily claim it was switched!) or maybe he just tests all of them, even the ones he thinks are natural, without telling the customer

I didn’t see the customer’s ring, but I saw the interaction (that prompted my question to him afterwards) and it was very much along the lines of her saying she needed to give this ring for repair and handing it to him, him looking it over with the loupe and then frowning and asking “where did you get the centre from?” Her asking why and him saying “because it seems like a lab grown to me… is it?” And her saying “oh yeah it is a lab, I got it for travel” (a lot of people here feel an urge to justify why they bought labs). I don’t know what prompted him to think hers was lab grown - I felt it would be rude to ask.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Yes, sometimes it takes forever for my brain to understand things, and this is clearly one of those times. By the way, both your rings are gorgeous.

I have to call BS on this.
It’s not possible to tell lab from mined except in rare cases. So rare that without testing equipment it’s not conclusive. Implying otherwise is misleading.
If a stone has strong blue, it’s likely mined. Brown? Likely mined.
But based on what I’ve seen it’s not responsible for a jewelry to claim to be able to tell conclusively by eye.
Too many variables

That’s what I thought. The Today show recently did a segment in which the hosts had a natural diamond ring and a lab grown diamond ring. No one could tell the difference. That’s why I find it perplexing when people say they can tell WITHOUT special equipment.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Possibly BS, but he’s not the BS-ing kind of guy. Though he doesn’t sell labs (most jewellers in India who sell naturals will not openly sell labs. It’s bad for business), so maybe he doesn’t get all that many in and the ones that he does get are obvious enough to merit asking the question before scanning through a machine. I’ve seen a lot of labs here with the off tints that would clearly imply lab grown, so maybe that’s what he looks for. I’m sure if he really suspected a stone was a lab he would test it even if the customer claimed it was natural (would almost have to, otherwise they could easily claim it was switched!) or maybe he just tests all of them, even the ones he thinks are natural, without telling the customer

I didn’t see the customer’s ring, but I saw the interaction (that prompted my question to him afterwards) and it was very much along the lines of her saying she needed to give this ring for repair and handing it to him, him looking it over with the loupe and then frowning and asking “where did you get the centre from?” Her asking why and him saying “because it seems like a lab grown to me… is it?” And her saying “oh yeah it is a lab, I got it for travel” (a lot of people here feel an urge to justify why they bought labs). I don’t know what prompted him to think hers was lab grown - I felt it would be rude to ask.

I don’t know why people always feel the need to justify either. Perhaps he asked her for insurance purposes? I don’t know the quality of her stone or the size, but could that be the reason he asked? I brought my 2-carat LGD to a jeweler recently and he examined the stone and remarked how beautiful it was, and then he tested it with his LGD tester, and remarked “oh, this is a lab diamond”, to which I responded “yes”. And he said exactly what Freddyboston said when I got this diamond thanks to the incomparable Dejawiz , which is that a natural equivalent would cost $50,000. So maybe the jeweler was testing if it was lab for insurance purposes or concerns. Could that be why?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Yea. When a seller doesn’t sell labs - then claims they can tell by eye….. raises a red flag because it’s not possible except in rare cases. It’s been a very contentious issue for many in the trade.
Sellers of labs trying to trash naturals because of environmental concerns- and sellers of naturals doing the exact same thing.
No offense intended! But when a seller of naturals claims he can spot lab diamonds by eye…. It is bs.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I don’t know why people always feel the need to justify either. Perhaps he asked her for insurance purposes? I don’t know the quality of her stone or the size, but could that be the reason he asked? I brought my 2-carat LGD to a jeweler recently and he examined the stone and remarked how beautiful it was, and then he tested it with his LGD tester, and remarked “oh, this is a lab diamond”, to which I responded “yes”. And he said exactly what Freddyboston said when I got this diamond thanks to the incomparable Dejawiz , which is that a natural equivalent would cost $50,000. So maybe the jeweler was testing if it was lab for insurance purposes or concerns. Could that be why?

He asked to cover his own liability I suppose, since he was taking it in for repair and it would be away from the customer. Jewellers always do a detailed intake form when they take your things (at least this one does). It’s to minimise the risk that a customer claims their stone was switched for an inferior one. So if it’s a certified stone with an inscription number it would be noted, if it’s not certified then he would note down an approximate colour grade and/or any notable inclusions etc., jewellery is always weighed, a mounted stone has the dimensions taken by a caliper and noted etc. and then a copy of the intake slip is retained by the jeweller and a copy is given to the customer.

I think I heard him say it was approx 8mm/2cts when he measured it with a caliper. But in India where I am and the social circles I hang out with large erings are common. Most of my friends would have rings in the 1.5-4ct range, all are natural (at least that’s what they say, and I’ve helped about 4 of the boyfriends buy the erings, so I can confirm those are natural lol). So it’s not like it was obscenely large or anything.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Yea. When a seller doesn’t sell labs - then claims they can tell by eye….. raises a red flag because it’s not possible except in rare cases. It’s been a very contentious issue for many in the trade.
Sellers of labs trying to trash naturals because of environmental concerns- and sellers of naturals doing the exact same thing.
No offense intended! But when a seller of naturals claims he can spot lab diamonds by eye…. It is bs.

Okay this is interesting. I genuinely wonder if I’ve just seen only crappy lab growns. Because I don’t think I have some insane superpower; but there’s only 3 occasions (that I’m sure of) where I’ve come in close contact with lab grown diamonds in person; and all 3 I thought there was something “off”, basically the tint. But if that’s actually more rare than anything else, maybe I just see the crap ones lol. Or maybe when I see the good ones I don’t realise they’re labs.

 

[purplesilk]

Okay this is interesting. I genuinely wonder if I’ve just seen only crappy lab growns. Because I don’t think I have some insane superpower; but there’s only 3 occasions (that I’m sure of) where I’ve come in close contact with lab grown diamonds in person; and all 3 I thought there was something “off”, basically the tint. But if that’s actually more rare than anything else, maybe I just see the crap ones lol. Or maybe when I see the good ones I don’t realise they’re labs.

I had the same experience with LGDs in the 1÷2 ct range: I spotted LGDs because they looked off; they were surely crappy LGDs, but I could the difference from natural by naked eye.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I had the same experience with LGDs in the 1÷2 ct range: I spotted LGDs because they looked off; they were surely crappy LGDs, but I could the difference from natural by naked eye.

The issue with this is that we have no context. When you say they looked “off”… what specifically was the issue?
Were the stones loose or set?
Were the stones being shown by a seller?
When was this?
It’s getting harder and harder to find funky colored labs as the overall general quality has improved. Also- remember I’ve seen all sorts of funky natural diamonds as well over the years.
Bottom line - it’s not possible to conclusively tell without expensive testing equipment. Not possible by eye. Period.

 

[oldminer]

My personal thought for why GIA is giving up complex grading of Lab diamonds is to further corner the mined diamond market sellers who are willing to pay a sufficient amount for reports. Then other labs can scramble for the low fees associated with grading inexpensive Lab stones. This gives GIA the opportunity to thrive with a good return per stone. They can adjust the size of their lower salary work force to match the income stream. The other labs will have to eat breadcrumbs per stone and have lots of employees who make very little. Such a scenario will further degrade consumer opinion when it comes to accuracy and standards among labs that compete for volume rather than quality.

I see GIA's decision as favorable to GIA and detrimental to their competition. That's a business-like strategy that makes sense. If Lab diamonds were highly valuable and distinctively unique, GIA would not have made this move.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

My personal thought for why GIA is giving up complex grading of Lab diamonds is to further corner the mined diamond market sellers who are willing to pay a sufficient amount for reports. Then other labs can scramble for the low fees associated with grading inexpensive Lab stones. This gives GIA the opportunity to thrive with a good return per stone. They can adjust the size of their lower salary work force to match the income stream. The other labs will have to eat breadcrumbs per stone and have lots of employees who make very little. Such a scenario will further degrade consumer opinion when it comes to accuracy and standards among labs that compete for volume rather than quality.

I see GIA's decision as favorable to GIA and detrimental to their competition. That's a business-like strategy that makes sense. If Lab diamonds were highly valuable and distinctively unique, GIA would not have made this move.

LGDs AREN’T highly valuable, which I am assuming means “worth” or “price” in this case? They’re not worth a lot of money. And I don’t think they’re unique, except that it takes less time to create one in a lab than the Earth takes to create one.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The other labs will have to eat breadcrumbs per stone and have lots of employees who make very little

I think this horse has left the barn David.
From what I’m seeing here in NYC, high paying jobs in the jewelry industry are gone. Lab workers, or people working for Diamond companies are by and large are staffed by low income workers. Generally people brought in from India.

 

[Rockdiamond]

If Lab diamonds were highly valuable and distinctively unique, GIA would not have made this move

Value is subjective for sure. Lab diamonds cost a fraction of naturals…. But they ain’t free.
We’re still talking thousands of dollars for high quality jewelry with lab diamonds.
It really feels to me like GIA threw in the towel because they could not compete given the existing structure of the lab.

 

[purplesilk]

The issue with this is that we have no context. When you say they looked “off”… what specifically was the issue?
Were the stones loose or set?
Were the stones being shown by a seller?
When was this?
It’s getting harder and harder to find funky colored labs as the overall general quality has improved. Also- remember I’ve seen all sorts of funky natural diamonds as well over the years.
Bottom line - it’s not possible to conclusively tell without expensive testing equipment. Not possible by eye. Period.

- The issues were color (grey) and transparency (overall dull, but with some metallic grey reflections)
- the stones were set on solitaire mounting rings and 4 prong stud settings;
- the rings and the studs were worn by two wealthy ladies (mom and daughter);
- we were at my local jeweller's;
- it was at summer 2023 ;
- I was at my local jeweller's and at the shop there were two ladies shopping for a gold bracelet: they asked my opinion on the bracelets they were shown, so we started chatting; they nicely joked about the fact I should have got a bigger solitaire (mine is only 1.7 ct) and bigger studs (mine are only 0.86 tcw) so I answered: "You're right, I should go bigger : next time I'll go with LGDs as you both did!".
The jeweller burst into a laugh; the two ladies flushed and asked how I could have spotted their solitaire diamond rings and their studs were LGDs: I candidly explained that the stones looked off to my eyes.
Their LGDs were the crappy quality (and, alas, still very pricey) sold in my country (Italy).
Again, just my experience.