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GIA or EGL best to grade an OEC?

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
If anyone in the know can give me their input I'd much appreciate it!

My OEC is on layaway with JbEG, it doesn't have a cert. My DH-to-be definitely wants one before we set it and bring it up to Canada. We don't want to use a Canadian lab to grade it.
I know all the issues with EGL, I wouldn't personally buy a new EGL graded stone, but I have read numerous times that it is better to get older cuts graded by EGL because GIA grades cut and symmetry so strictly, making them look poor on paper.
We want to get the stone appraised here locally for insurance. My local appraisers don't have extensive experience with old cuts, but will happily grade them. We thought at least if we had the stone graded first it would give us something of a guidline for cut and symmetry (I know EGL is loose on color and clarity) to compare with the local appraisal.
With insurance, if I loose or damage the stone and I need to replace it with "like stone" so I'm wondering what the best choice would be in order to get it replaced with something comparable?
Should I send it to David Atlas and get it appraised before I have it set and sent here maybe?

Thanks in advance
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
What does JBEG suggest? Richard Sherwood did an incredible appraisal on my non-certified OEC years ago. It was very descriptive and provide plenty of info that could be used for insurance purposes. Personally, I'm not sure I'd bother sending to a lab for a cert. I'd rather just send it to Neil or Dave or Richard. But that's just me :))
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
mrssalvo|1309487864|2959585 said:
What does JBEG suggest? Richard Sherwood did an incredible appraisal on my non-certified OEC years ago. It was very descriptive and provide plenty of info that could be used for insurance purposes. Personally, I'm not sure I'd bother sending to a lab for a cert. I'd rather just send it to Neil or Dave or Richard. But that's just me :))
Thanks mrssalvo, I'm just waiting to hear back from Grace (who has been fantastic, I can't recommend JbEG enough) and see what she says.
It really is just for insurance purposes for me, we won't be selling/upgrading this particular stone. For my guy though, he really wants a cert, I think because we went through so much trouble with local vendors being dishonest with us, he wants reassurance of grade on paper. Buying a large diamond without a cert, from another country - sight unseen no less, was a big leap for him because it goes against everything we learned about buying a diamond and is out of his comfort zone, but he trusts me and I assured him of JbEG's stellar reputation so he gave me the go ahead.
I do think though that an appraisal by somebody reputable might be acceptable for him too, I'll ask him.
I'm seeing an insurance agent on Saturday, I'm going to ask her some questions. I'm wondering if a Canadian insurance company would accept an American appraisal? I heard David is very good, I haven't heard of the others you have recommended but thank you, I will definitely look into them also.
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
I'm a guy, so i think like a guy. If it were my money, i would like the assurance of a professional certification on the diamond purchased. In that regard, i would have definitely send it to be certed by GIA.

Would be nice of you to give him the assurance I feel. On some levels he might want to know what kind diamond of he has purchased for you by GIA standards if he is the research before purchase sort of person. I'm sure he knows well enough to be grateful that it is what you want and love.

Regarding the Appraisal and insurance portion, I would leave it to better informed people.
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
TristanC|1309494127|2959641 said:
I'm a guy, so i think like a guy. If it were my money, i would like the assurance of a professional certification on the diamond purchased. In that regard, i would have definitely send it to be certed by GIA.

Would be nice of you to give him the assurance I feel. On some levels he might want to know what kind diamond of he has purchased for you by GIA standards if he is the research before purchase sort of person. I'm sure he knows well enough to be grateful that it is what you want and love.

Regarding the Appraisal and insurance portion, I would leave it to better informed people.
I absolutely agree, I want him to feel 100% confident about the purchase and I'll do whatever it takes for that. We are talking about a man who is a Type A analyzer and every purchase is researched thoroughly. He just wants me to be happy, so he's given me quite a bit of free reign with this purchase but I want him to be comfortable and happy with where his money is going.
If it were a new stone I'd insist on GIA or AGS, but my reason for asking about EGL is because these OECs are not cut to modern day standards and as such, GIA will grade them poorer by comparison. This doesn't bother me as I know this about OECs. However, when it comes to insurance, if my stone is poorly graded, that's possibly what I'll have to replace it with as most policies require you to replace with "like stone" and that's the comments I have read as to the benefit of using EGL, on paper, the stone sounds better.
Now that said, maybe I could get the stone graded by GIA to make my guy happy, which ultimately is all I want, and then get it appraised by a top notch appraiser who knows these old cuts well and can do a great job of accurately appraising and just provide my insurance company with only the appraisal, keeping the GIA for our own records only.
I have a lot of questions to ask my insurance company, one of the biggest ones being, if I need to make a claim, can I get another OEC and from the vendor I choose, or will it have to be a vendor they choose and will they make me get just any stone that matches the specs? I just don't want to end up with a RB graded by EGL if I loose or damage my stone, that's what I'm concerned about.

Thank you for the input Tristan :)
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
You are most welcome, I'm just happy I made some sense. It is exactly as you say regarding the guy part. Yet, if he were type A (I am too, look where I wound up) no point in certified diamonds if the cert is questionable, hence GIA not EGL.

I hear you regarding the insurance angle, so you might want to do what you ultimately suggested, even though it would put you out of pocket by a little bit more (shipping, cost of appraisal + cost of certificate) but then you all get what you want. You get the ring, he gets the GIA description and affirmation, and you both get the insurance coverage that you want.
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Yes, best to be safe than sorry. I lost my first engagement ring diamond and I didn't have insurance so I'm wanting to make sure that doesn't happen again, I'd be mortified :(sad
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,411
A GIA report is like having univerally accepted currency. No one argues over their grading although not every dealer totally agrees on every stone's GIA grading results. It is a tiny bit subjective and keeps everyone on their toes. If you are going to spend your money to find out the quality of a diamond, there is little reason to pay for any lab report where you and everyone else who later sees the report will have doubts if they have any market knowledge. The uninformed do rely on all lab reports as if they were all the same, but they are not all the same.

I think there are several very experienced appraisers who grade diamonds in a way that ends up very similar to GIA results, but none of us can always match the GIA. Why, because there are always borderline calls that can go either way. No person, no group of individuals and no machine could ever completely match the way GIA grading is furnised to clients. Someday there will be more repeatable methods put to use, but resistance to such change will be difficult to initially overcome. I know this change is coming, but can't say when so far.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
I hadn't considered this in reguards to insurance comapanies replacing the lost or damaged stone. I have a fancy shaped stone, hence no cut grade. If, heaven forbid something were to happen to my diamond and the insurance company chose to replace it, how would they take cut into consideration? Do they simply base it on the dimensions of the stone and pick something close? I don't need to tell any of you, how long I researched, studied and shopped to find the stone that had all the characteristics that I wanted. Unfortunatly if the insurance company were to pick a stone for me with the just the same color and clarity grades I could end up with frozen spit! So....how do you avoid this from happening?
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Oldminer|1309553371|2960174 said:
A GIA report is like having univerally accepted currency. No one argues over their grading although not every dealer totally agrees on every stone's GIA grading results. It is a tiny bit subjective and keeps everyone on their toes. If you are going to spend your money to find out the quality of a diamond, there is little reason to pay for any lab report where you and everyone else who later sees the report will have doubts if they have any market knowledge. The uninformed do rely on all lab reports as if they were all the same, but they are not all the same.

I think there are several very experienced appraisers who grade diamonds in a way that ends up very similar to GIA results, but none of us can always match the GIA. Why, because there are always borderline calls that can go either way. No person, no group of individuals and no machine could ever completely match the way GIA grading is furnised to clients. Someday there will be more repeatable methods put to use, but resistance to such change will be difficult to initially overcome. I know this change is coming, but can't say when so far.
Thank you very much for your input, I really appreciate it.
If we are never going to sell or trade in this stone, would you say it's still worth getting GIA to grade it or would an appraisal be sufficient for insurance purposes? I asked my guy and he says he'd be happy to just have somebody reputable like yourself, appraise the stone, so he has something reliable and official on paper stating the attributes of the stone. Both for his peace of mind and insurance purposes.
What would you recommend?

Christina I would suggest you call your insurance agent and go over your policy together. It seems every company has variances within their policies and I share your concerns.
 

Learning Slowly

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
14
This is a question in the form of a suggestion. I'm curious about the responses also. I was recently looking at a Jeweler's Mutual who insures jewelery in the US and Canada. If an insured item is lost or stolen, they "claim" to allow the claimant to select the jeweler with whom the replacement/repair is done. If this is an accurate description, would it be worthwhile to go with an appraisal by a reputable person (ps people have been recommended above), and then if a claim must be filed, they can be the tool by which you seek a replacement stone. This way, you don't have to worry about the reputation of EGL or the risk of a low graded cert based on your stone's cut. This way, your appraiser could be the one to guarantee your replacement is "like" for "like", working with their own appraisal.

If your insurance company doesn't permit you to select the jeweler, I don't see how any direction you go will secure like for like. Do the experts here have opinions as to if this could work, or if insurance companies truly follow through with this type of claim (no pun intended)?
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
My OMC was not graded when my jeweler first had it, and he offered to send it to a lab for me for grading. I chose GIA without a second thought. I didn't even consider sending it to EGL.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,680
If you send it to EGL it will get better grades so you will have gotten a better deal. :D
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Haven|1309729760|2961247 said:
My OMC was not graded when my jeweler first had it, and he offered to send it to a lab for me for grading. I chose GIA without a second thought. I didn't even consider sending it to EGL.
I wouldn't have considered EGL either if it wasn't for reading a couple of posts on here stating specifically for old cuts that EGL was better for insurance purposes, I wish I could find them now, I was wondering if that was accurate or not.

TristanC ~ I'm not that easily confused! There's no confusion as to who is better for grading and I don't need to feel like we got some kind of "deal" by fluffing my feathers with an EGL report that isn't worth the paper it's written on. All of this is purely for insurance purposes if an insurance company were to try to match to "like stone".

As it turns out, I met with the agent on Saturday and gave her the details and asked where I'd stand and what I should do. She said I do not need a grading report for insurance, that a detailed appraisal would be fine and that it has to specify that the stone is an OEC. In the case of loss or damage, she would give a payout for the insured value because it was an antique stone and could take significant time to relocate something of "same like", unlike if it were a newer cut stone.

So we can get the GIA report for our own records and have it appraised for insurance purposes.
 
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