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GIA Help Please!!!

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Maximus23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
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Ok so here is the story i had a look at a diamond today that i quite liked it was set in a pendant recieved a copy of the GIA certno 13140769

spec was

1.00
D Si1
polish very good
symetry very good
depth 61%
table 56%


no other details inc cut grade were availabe as the cert was from 2004 so i called up GIA and they confirmed that the :

Crown angle was 35 deg
and Pavilion was 40.6

price for the above is $7000


Is there anything else i should look for ? with this stone ?they could not tell me what the cut grade would be?

Is there an issue with buying a 2004 cert?

Thank you good people.
 
With those measurements it scores 0.8 on the Cut Advisor, which is excellent, assuming the symmetry is ok. You''d need to verify that it''s eye clean (as it''s an SI1).

I understand your concern about getting an older cert, I feel the same way, but after some research it seems that it''s not a problem. The only issues might be scratches or chips which affect the polish of the stone. Having a good look at the stone before buying should highlight this sort of obvious problem.
 
You dont have to worry about an SI1 being eye clean. An SI1 should always be eye-clean. Now if were an SI2 then you might need to worry. I am assuming that this stone is a round brilliant?

This price seems a bit high as well. I see many other examples out there that are in the 5500-6000 dollar range.
 
based on the specs seems like a great find i am still neg price,,, yes it is a round brilliant.


Question Does this mean that if it scores 0.8 on the HCA that it would be a GIA excellent cut?
 
I should get it for around $6500 it is a perfect 1.00 just hope that i am not missing anything on the GIA..
 
Date: 5/2/2008 10:10:46 AM
Author: JaxBradGG
You dont have to worry about an SI1 being eye clean. An SI1 should always be eye-clean.
Click to expand...
I''m not so sure on that. The GIA says:
Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2): contain noticeable inclusions which are easy (SI1) or very easy (SI2) to see under 10X. In some SIs, inclusions can be seen with the unaided eye.
Click to expand...
If it''s SI anything, I''d get it checked by someone you trust.
 
Just got off the phone with a Gemologist at GIA The new crown angle for is 34.9 and pavillion 40.5 with an HCA rating of 0.4 now this all seems a bit to good to be true ???

She also said that the equipment that they use now is alot better than in 2004 so theere might be some variance.... she also said that she could not predict the GIA cut grade because she needed more information SArin star size etc so it could be anything from fair to ExcellenT
19.gif
so now i am really confused because the diamond looked great .


If it does score 0.4 HCA then could there be anything else that could mean it is not an excellent cut?
 
The HCA is more of a tool to eliminate bad stones, as opposed to rating good ones. Anything below 2 is fine, but you can't necessarily say a 0.4 is better than a 0.9. There are lots of things the HCA doesn't consider about a diamond.

If you're still concerned about the cut, is there any way to get an Idealscope image of the stone? It goes a long way to checking the light return.
 
the jeweller does not have an ideal scope i checked ,,,,, the stone is also currently in a setting which he will remove should i decide to purchase...
 
Just to add the stone is def eye clean as i have a 14x magnification loup and it still looked pretty good.
 
Date: 5/2/2008 10:10:46 AM
Author: JaxBradGG
You dont have to worry about an SI1 being eye clean. An SI1 should always be eye-clean. Now if were an SI2 then you might need to worry. I am assuming that this stone is a round brilliant?

This price seems a bit high as well. I see many other examples out there that are in the 5500-6000 dollar range.
Click to expand...
I have to respectfully disagree, not all SI1 clarities are ' always' eyeclean, and we try to advise posters here to check with a vendor regarding if a diamond matches their comfort level for ' eyecleanliness'. Also that many factors can influence whether a diamond is eyeclean or not, such as the type, size, location, and colour of the inclusion/s and the size of the diamond, and the viewer's individual eyesight, which lab graded the diamond, to name just some of factors.
1.gif


This thread may be useful in case you haven't seen it.

Clarity, eyeclean definition, interpretation and taste
 
Date: 5/2/2008 11:53:33 AM
Author: Maximus23
Just to add the stone is def eye clean as i have a 14x magnification loup and it still looked pretty good.
Click to expand...
You have your own loupe... truly you are a born Pricescoper.

If you've checked out the stone and you're happy with it (which it seems you are) and all indications (HCA, etc) are that it's a good stone, then all that's left is to haggle on the price! Go get 'em!

Edit:
Author: Lorelei
I have to respectfully disagree
Click to expand...
Lorelei's always so polite...
25.gif
 
Date: 5/2/2008 11:44:16 AM
Author: Maximus23
Just got off the phone with a Gemologist at GIA The new crown angle for is 34.9 and pavillion 40.5 with an HCA rating of 0.4 now this all seems a bit to good to be true ???

She also said that the equipment that they use now is alot better than in 2004 so theere might be some variance.... she also said that she could not predict the GIA cut grade because she needed more information SArin star size etc so it could be anything from fair to ExcellenT
19.gif
so now i am really confused because the diamond looked great .


If it does score 0.4 HCA then could there be anything else that could mean it is not an excellent cut?
Click to expand...
The HCA score doesn''t mean that it is necessarily an excellent cut, nor does a lower score mean it is better than a diamond which scores higher ( stones which score 2 and under are usually considered worthy of further evaluation if the HCA is the only available tool at that time). The diamond could be very nice though yes in this instance, especially as you have seen it and like it, and it appears it is eyeclean to your preferences.
 
thx1 My main concern is based on the limited information i have above How can i estimate what the Gia cut grade of this diamond is?
 
I forgot to say, click on the "Facetware" box in the middle of the page.
 
i dont have all the rquired information for that only depth 61% table 56% crown angle 34.9 pavillion 40.5 but no star lenght etc
 
Splinter and Lorelei both make excellent statements, and Lorelei''s link is worthy of a good look. Some GIA/AGS SI''s will be completely eye clean, some may have small inclusions that are visible to careful examination. Some people see inclusions that others can not. It is a stone by stone call, and person by person, as what one calls eye clean another may call clearly eye visible.

Then you have those that grade from the side and are bothered by the fact that they can see inclusions when viewed by the side, although the standards set by the trade are that diamonds are graded from the top.

You must make the decisions about what works for you and with YOUR eyes.

Wink
 
Thanks wink asuming the stone is eyeclean then should i send it back to GIA for a new up to date certification incl cut grade?
 
There’s not enough information available. The GIA didn’t start assigning a cut grade until 2006 and their formula uses a fair amount more information than you’ve included. So far it looks lovely but the ONLY way to really answer your question of what GIA will assign as a cut grade is to pull it out of the mounting and send it to GIA. Frankly I don’t see the point:

You love the stone.
You’re happy with the price.
You’re happy with the jeweler.

Do you really care all that much what GIA thinks?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 
Based on my experience. And yes i am a GG from GIA. An SI1 (not talking about SI2 because that is a whole different story) should be eye clean 99.9 percent of the time. I can count on 1 hand the number of SI1s that have eye visible inclusions. The one that i have in mind was on an Emerald Cut and My customer couldnt even see it but i could! So yes maybe maybe maybe you could find an SI1 from GIA or AGS that had an eye visible but i guarantee that those are very few and far between.
 
Thanks you DA for some striaght talking,,,, just to add i have never dealt with this jeweller before but he been around for ages(25 years i think) do i still need to get the stone appriased elswhere just to make sure there are no chips etc?
 
Date: 5/2/2008 1:55:44 PM
Author: JaxBradGG


Based on my experience. And yes i am a GG from GIA. An SI1 (not talking about SI2 because that is a whole different story) should be eye clean 99.9 percent of the time. I can count on 1 hand the number of SI1s that have eye visible inclusions. The one that i have in mind was on an Emerald Cut and My customer couldnt even see it but i could! So yes maybe maybe maybe you could find an SI1 from GIA or AGS that had an eye visible but i guarantee that those are very few and far between.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, but it seems here that the responsible advice to give, is to advise posters who are considering an SI1 clarity, to check with the vendor that it is eyeclean according to their comfort level. This advice has served many posters very well over considerable time. As Wink says, who is a professional and expert with years of experience, and who has sold many diamonds -

"It is a stone by stone call, and person by person, as what one calls eye clean another may call clearly eye visible.

Then you have those that grade from the side and are bothered by the fact that they can see inclusions when viewed by the side, although the standards set by the trade are that diamonds are graded from the top.


You must make the decisions about what works for you and with YOUR eyes."

That I believe is the best advice of all, from someone who has sold many SI1 clarity diamonds to discerning customers.
1.gif
 
Date: 5/2/2008 2:32:32 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 5/2/2008 1:55:44 PM

Author: JaxBradGG



Based on my experience. And yes i am a GG from GIA. An SI1 (not talking about SI2 because that is a whole different story) should be eye clean 99.9 percent of the time. I can count on 1 hand the number of SI1s that have eye visible inclusions. The one that i have in mind was on an Emerald Cut and My customer couldnt even see it but i could! So yes maybe maybe maybe you could find an SI1 from GIA or AGS that had an eye visible but i guarantee that those are very few and far between.
Click to expand...



Thank you for your reply, but it seems here that the responsible advice to give, is to advise posters who are considering an SI1 clarity, to check with the vendor that it is eyeclean according to their comfort level. This advice has served many posters very well over considerable time. As Wink says, who is a professional and expert with years of experience, and who has sold many diamonds -


'It is a stone by stone call, and person by person, as what one calls eye clean another may call clearly eye visible.

Then you have those that grade from the side and are bothered by the fact that they can see inclusions when viewed by the side, although the standards set by the trade are that diamonds are graded from the top.



You must make the decisions about what works for you and with YOUR eyes.'


That I believe is the best advice of all, from someone who has sold many SI1 clarity diamonds to discerning customers.
1.gif
Click to expand...

I dont want to steal this persons thread cause it really doesnt matter but I have sold many SI1s as well and unless it is an EGL (which are worthless) than an SI1 should be eye clean. I understand telling them to verify with their eyes that an SI1 is eyeclean just to make sure but realistically they should be eye clean. Based on my professional and expert opinion! lol.
 
Date: 5/2/2008 2:38:47 PM
Author: JaxBradGG

Date: 5/2/2008 2:32:32 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 5/2/2008 1:55:44 PM

Author: JaxBradGG



Based on my experience. And yes i am a GG from GIA. An SI1 (not talking about SI2 because that is a whole different story) should be eye clean 99.9 percent of the time. I can count on 1 hand the number of SI1s that have eye visible inclusions. The one that i have in mind was on an Emerald Cut and My customer couldnt even see it but i could! So yes maybe maybe maybe you could find an SI1 from GIA or AGS that had an eye visible but i guarantee that those are very few and far between.
Click to expand...




Thank you for your reply, but it seems here that the responsible advice to give, is to advise posters who are considering an SI1 clarity, to check with the vendor that it is eyeclean according to their comfort level. This advice has served many posters very well over considerable time. As Wink says, who is a professional and expert with years of experience, and who has sold many diamonds -


''It is a stone by stone call, and person by person, as what one calls eye clean another may call clearly eye visible.


Then you have those that grade from the side and are bothered by the fact that they can see inclusions when viewed by the side, although the standards set by the trade are that diamonds are graded from the top.




You must make the decisions about what works for you and with YOUR eyes.''


That I believe is the best advice of all, from someone who has sold many SI1 clarity diamonds to discerning customers.
1.gif
Click to expand...

I dont want to steal this persons thread cause it really doesnt matter but I have sold many SI1s as well and unless it is an EGL (which are worthless) than an SI1 should be eye clean. I understand telling them to verify with their eyes that an SI1 is eyeclean just to make sure but realistically they should be eye clean. Based on my professional and expert opinion! lol.
Click to expand...
We will have to agree to disagree then, but I shall continue as I have always done, and I am sure many other regular posters will - continue to advise those considering an SI1 clarity diamond, to check with the vendor whether it is eyeclean to their requirements. Also I have to disagree with you that EGL diamonds are worthless, some of us actually own them and are very happy with them.
 
Let me rephrase that sorry. An EGL cert is worthless. An EGL diamond can be quite beautiful. Just as long as the person selling it knows what the actual color and clarity are! I have seen too many that are not even close to the grades that would be given by GIA or AGS. I dont want to ruffle your feathers either i was just trying to tell the person that an SI1 should be eye clean and if it has a report from gia or ags we can be reasonably sure that it will be eye clean. They should ALWAYS see the stone first.
26.gif
 
Date: 5/2/2008 2:50:30 PM
Author: JaxBradGG
Let me rephrase that sorry. An EGL cert is worthless. An EGL diamond can be quite beautiful. Just as long as the person selling it knows what the actual color and clarity are! I have seen too many that are not even close to the grades that would be given by GIA or AGS. I dont want to ruffle your feathers either i was just trying to tell the person that an SI1 should be eye clean and if it has a report from gia or ags we can be reasonably sure that it will be eye clean. They should ALWAYS see the stone first.
26.gif
Click to expand...
Thank you. I forgot my manners, as I didn't say welcome to Pricescope! Bascially the standard advice given here is that whether a diamond is eyeclean or not is so subjective, that one person might spot an inclusion that others may not, especially with diamonds which are sold online that the buyers cannot see in person to begin with. The vendors and buyers need to communicate together as effectively as they can, to make sure they are on the same page regarding the ' eyecleanliness' where a particular diamond is concerned, especially with the SI grades. This approach has worked well for both buyers and vendors.

I hope you stick around and enjoy it here, we are a very close community and many of us have been here for some time. The overall focus is on diamonds with consumers and the experts working together to try to help those who are buying diamonds, but we do have fun too!
 
Yea one of my customers introduced me to this site and said that i should check it out. He was a cut fanatic looking for an AGS 000 ideal princess and was astonished at how many i could pull into my store through Polygon! Now im just sitting back and checking out the site every once and a while.
 
Date: 5/2/2008 2:38:47 PM
Author: JaxBradGG


Date: 5/2/2008 2:32:32 PM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 5/2/2008 1:55:44 PM

Author: JaxBradGG



Based on my experience. And yes i am a GG from GIA. An SI1 (not talking about SI2 because that is a whole different story) should be eye clean 99.9 percent of the time. I can count on 1 hand the number of SI1s that have eye visible inclusions. The one that i have in mind was on an Emerald Cut and My customer couldnt even see it but i could! So yes maybe maybe maybe you could find an SI1 from GIA or AGS that had an eye visible but i guarantee that those are very few and far between.
Click to expand...





Thank you for your reply, but it seems here that the responsible advice to give, is to advise posters who are considering an SI1 clarity, to check with the vendor that it is eyeclean according to their comfort level. This advice has served many posters very well over considerable time. As Wink says, who is a professional and expert with years of experience, and who has sold many diamonds -


'It is a stone by stone call, and person by person, as what one calls eye clean another may call clearly eye visible.



Then you have those that grade from the side and are bothered by the fact that they can see inclusions when viewed by the side, although the standards set by the trade are that diamonds are graded from the top.





You must make the decisions about what works for you and with YOUR eyes.'


That I believe is the best advice of all, from someone who has sold many SI1 clarity diamonds to discerning customers.
1.gif
Click to expand...

I dont want to steal this persons thread cause it really doesnt matter but I have sold many SI1s as well and unless it is an EGL (which are worthless) than an SI1 should be eye clean. I understand telling them to verify with their eyes that an SI1 is eyeclean just to make sure but realistically they should be eye clean. Based on my professional and expert opinion! lol.
Click to expand...
Brad,

Welcome to Pricescope! We need more quality professionals to come and share their views with us, so let me be one of the first to welcome you.

You will find that on Pricescope we tend to be VERY catious in our approach, as for every rule there are dozens of exceptions hiding out their waiting to bite us in the rear.

Denver appraiser has a great article that you might want to read: http://journal.pricescope..com/Articles/55/1/A-jeweler’s-guide-for-how-to-get-along-with-Pricescope.aspx . This will help you avoid any land mines while getting started with this wonderful board. Trust me, while I agree with you that SI stones "should realistically be eye clean," that does not mean that they all are, and around here you want to allow for all contingencies. We are dealing with an expensive product, and while it is easy sitting in our offices or stores to show people exactly what we are talking about, on Pricescope we have to explore all of the possibilities so that our potential clients have ALL of the information and then can make a VERY informed decision.

You will find that there are some incredibly well informed people here on Pricescope, who actually know WAY more than about 97% of the jewelers in this country.

By the way, what is that stunning gem in your avatar? I will avoid possibly embarrassing myself by not saying that it is perhaps one of the most beautiful Paraiba Tourmalines I have ever seen since obviously no Gemologist would make such a sight ID without getting a better look at the stone. Oh wait, did I just say that???

Sigh. I hope I am at least close...

Wink
 
Very good guess! after all GG does stand for good guesser! Yes that is a Paraiba Tourmaline from Brazil (not mozambique).. That is easily one of my favorite stones that i never get to sell because nobody knows anything about it and most people cannot afford it. Thanks for the link. I wouldnt want to break any rules so early in the game!!!
 
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