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GIA - fancy shapes - Profile not to actual proportions

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diagem

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Date: 2/10/2007 5:15:01 PM
Author:elmo
I want to follow up on Roc''s post at https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-noticed.49633/ about the profile plot on new reports and the comment ''Profile not to actual proportions'', but the topic is too old to reply to. Is there any connection *at all* between the profile plot with actual crown height and pavilion depth for fancy shapes?
If the report says "profile not to actual proportions" than dont expect any connection between profile plot and the actual stone profile at subject....

For some reason that I dont fully understand why GIA are not willing to invest in identifying either the plot/sketch or the profile plot/sketch of the actual fancy shaped Diamond...

I dont understand other labs either..., but since GIA are identifying themselves as ''the worlds foremost authority in Gemology'' and the fact that time is not the issue here..., I think that the GIA should consider the fact of changing this policy!!!

When a consumer purchases a GIA graded Diamond, he/she expect to fully trust the content of the report... its true that the GIA is covered legaly as it notifies the buyer that the report is based on opinion..., but since the GIA finds it important enough to name all other actual and correct information to match the actual Diamond... I think the plot and sketch used in the report should also reflect the actual Diamond graded...

I think every consumer would like the sketch on the report to reflect the actual Diamond he /she purchased.
 

elmo

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Date: 2/10/2007 5:40:48 PM
Author: DiaGem
If the report says ''profile not to actual proportions'' than dont expect any connection between profile plot and the actual stone profile at subject....
I hear you. I was optimistically hoping it might be CYA as much as an inaccuracy. From looking at a few reports, it appears like they tried to represent the information already spelled out - table, width, depth, girdle, and culet. It should have been almost trivial though to create a picture that at least gives you a rudimentary idea about crown height and pavilion depth, which is potentially interesting info. Too bad.
 

RockDoc

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It would be nice if GIA would say proportions reported are with a certain tolerance. Of course it is difficult to do that when you round up the approximate numbers afterwards for rounds..... who know what they do with fancy shapes?

Then everyone would understand and be properly informed of the information provided. Consumers do place justifiable reliance on this information and make what could be ill informed purchasing decisions.

Rockdoc
 

diagem

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Date: 2/12/2007 1:28:33 AM
Author: RockDoc
It would be nice if GIA would say proportions reported are with a certain tolerance. Of course it is difficult to do that when you round up the approximate numbers afterwards for rounds..... who know what they do with fancy shapes?
It means to me that most probably the Profile is not to actual proportions on rounds either... am i making sense....?

Then everyone would understand and be properly informed of the information provided. Consumers do place justifiable reliance on this information and make what could be ill informed purchasing decisions.

Rockdoc
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 2/10/2007 5:40:48 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/10/2007 5:15:01 PM
Author:elmo
I want to follow up on Roc''s post at https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-noticed.49633/ about the profile plot on new reports and the comment ''Profile not to actual proportions'', but the topic is too old to reply to. Is there any connection *at all* between the profile plot with actual crown height and pavilion depth for fancy shapes?
If the report says ''profile not to actual proportions'' than dont expect any connection between profile plot and the actual stone profile at subject....

For some reason that I dont fully understand why GIA are not willing to invest in identifying either the plot/sketch or the profile plot/sketch of the actual fancy shaped Diamond...

I dont understand other labs either..., but since GIA are identifying themselves as ''the worlds foremost authority in Gemology'' and the fact that time is not the issue here..., I think that the GIA should consider the fact of changing this policy!!!

When a consumer purchases a GIA graded Diamond, he/she expect to fully trust the content of the report... its true that the GIA is covered legaly as it notifies the buyer that the report is based on opinion..., but since the GIA finds it important enough to name all other actual and correct information to match the actual Diamond... I think the plot and sketch used in the report should also reflect the actual Diamond graded...

I think every consumer would like the sketch on the report to reflect the actual Diamond he /she purchased.
Diagem - I am so with you, like usual. I think they should put the sarin/helium plots of these stones right on the certs so that we have actual information right away - why should that be esoteric information garnered ONLY if we seek out such services? It isn''t like many of us wouldn''t seek verification of that info anyway LOL And where cushions are concerned with the myriad and varied facet plots... ugh - they should at least report the crown height. I''m on a mission dernit!!!
 

oldminer

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I have offered for several years now a "Shape Selector" tool which highlights only some of the many variabilities in outline shape of fancy cut diamonds. It is a communication tool, as well, but it demostrates the difficulty in creating a meaningful disply of the top and side views of diamonds. Lots of different effects can occur.

The proposed new GIA Patent application that created quite a stir on Pricescope in the past few weeks touched on a renewed desire on the part of GIA to make proportioned graphics to show hopw diamonds actually look, but their "new" ideas seem to severely impact on ideas and covered intellectual property belong to other entities. I would expect that with technological advances, we will have very exacting plot diagrams at some time in the future.
 

diagem

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Date: 2/12/2007 3:29:57 PM
Author: oldminer
I have offered for several years now a ''Shape Selector'' tool which highlights only some of the many variabilities in outline shape of fancy cut diamonds. It is a communication tool, as well, but it demostrates the difficulty in creating a meaningful disply of the top and side views of diamonds. Lots of different effects can occur.

The proposed new GIA Patent application that created quite a stir on Pricescope in the past few weeks touched on a renewed desire on the part of GIA to make proportioned graphics to show hopw diamonds actually look, but their ''new'' ideas seem to severely impact on ideas and covered intellectual property belong to other entities. I would expect that with technological advances, we will have very exacting plot diagrams at some time in the future.
You want to tell me the GIA lacks technology knowledge to produce exacting diagrams/plots on their grading reports?? Or at least match the closest profile plot to the Gem they are grading...
 

oldminer

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They lacked the desire to give the end user all the known facts about diamonds for decades. Everyone in the trade was well aware that more detail of flourescence and cut was on EGL and PGS reports for many years. AGS reports also offered far more data than the GIA gave. FINALLY, after foot dragging for many, many years, they want to give us an "innovation" that already existed in the programs and knowledge bases of other firms and entities.

I doubt the GIA lacks the knowledge to do many fine things, but they are a large bureaucracy that moves in a ponderous way. They consider the strong desires of their many major clients who don''t prefer full disclosure of the facts. Many sellers like a good paper with as few facts in it as the consumer can be convinced to accept. I must consider my customer''s desire, too. I find them wanting the facts and complete, up to the minute, disclosure. It is a changing world.
 

diagem

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Date: 2/12/2007 3:57:50 PM
Author: oldminer
They lacked the desire to give the end user all the known facts about diamonds for decades. Everyone in the trade was well aware that more detail of flourescence and cut was on EGL and PGS reports for many years. AGS reports also offered far more data than the GIA gave. FINALLY, after foot dragging for many, many years, they want to give us an ''innovation'' that already existed in the programs and knowledge bases of other firms and entities.

I doubt the GIA lacks the knowledge to do many fine things, but they are a large bureaucracy that moves in a ponderous way. They consider the strong desires of their many major clients who don''t prefer full disclosure of the facts. Many sellers like a good paper with as few facts in it as the consumer can be convinced to accept. I must consider my customer''s desire, too. I find them wanting the facts and complete, up to the minute, disclosure. It is a changing world.
I was using GIA as one example...
I dont know any Lab. that uses the correct sketches/plots to identify the cut and true faceting arrangements on the stones they grade.
 

elmo

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I wasn't wanting anything sophicticated here. Since on the surface there's there's no new information on the "new" reports for fancy shapes, I was wondering whether some limited new information had been "coded" into the proportion diagram. I think it's a reasonable question, because unless the diagram was "photo realistic" I can see them needing to put the "not to actual proportions" comment there for legal reasons. Like Cehra suggests, I'm wondering if there's any chance at all that a crown is remotely tall enough to have the look I want. Not conclusive information, just a hint that it's worth the extra effort to actually see something or ask someone to have a look. I think this was a significant missed opportunity for the GIA.
 
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