GIA Fancy Deep Pink Diamonds?

[maxspinel]

When I was serving the internet, I came across the following fancy deep pink diamonds which are listed in the same web site (I am not sure if I am allowed to post the link to the web site):

1) Pear Shape, 1.07 ct Fancy Deep Pink, $15k
2) Oval Shape, 1.07 ct Fancy Deep Orangy Pink, $15k
3) Oval Shape, 1.01 ct Fancy Deep Purplish Pink, $80k

For 1) and 2), the pictures show more brown than pink. Also, the asking price of $15k seems low for pink diamonds without the brown modifier. On the other hand, the fancy deep purplish pink oval diamond does look very pink and the price ($80k) certainly reflect this.

All 3 diamonds have GIA certificate, color report only. I''ve seen IGI grading is way off compared with GIA w.r.t. color diamonds. They were calling some champagne diamonds as intense yellowish orange. However, in this case, it seems that GIA is kinda off too unless the pictures don''t tell the whole story; anyhow, there is also the price which suggests that they are not really fancy deep pink. I always feel that I can trust GIA as far as color diamond grading is concerned but now... Have they changed their color diamond grading policy lately?

 

[Kissingfish]

Hi there..

I''m currently in the process of buying an argyle pink diamond..

Do you have further details, as in their actual colour? (ie, what grade of P or PP are they?)

I''m assuming this will have a lot to do with the prices they reflect.. In any case, a 1.07ct pink diamond, I''m assuming would be a lot more than 15k..

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 8/31/2006 1:55:09 AM
Author: Kissingfish
Hi there..

I''m currently in the process of buying an argyle pink diamond..

Do you have further details, as in their actual colour? (ie, what grade of P or PP are they?)

I''m assuming this will have a lot to do with the prices they reflect.. In any case, a 1.07ct pink diamond, I''m assuming would be a lot more than 15k..

No, GIA color certificate does not grade diamonds based on PP1, PP2, ... They grade them based on faint, very light, light, fancy light, fancy, fancy intense, fancy vivid, fancy deep. Then they add the color of the modifier, such as brownish pink, purplish pink, orangy pink and etc.

I recently got a 1.08 ct fancy purplish pink diamond and I paid more than 15K. I would expect fancy deep to be a lot more expensive. What bothers me is GIA has been fairly consistent in grading color diamonds but these lowly priced fancy deep pinks do not seem to reflect their normal standard. They look brown rather than pink. Someting is just not adding up.

BTW, where are you getting your argyle pink diamond? From a company In Australia?

 

[Kissingfish]

Well I live in Australia, so yeah.. There are a few people who deal with them here.. I''m paying $1300 (australian dollars) for a .10ct pink argyle diamond..

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 8/31/2006 12:49:20 AM
Author:maxspinel

When I was serving the internet, I came across the following fancy deep pink diamonds which are listed in the same web site (I am not sure if I am allowed to post the link to the web site):

yes, you are allowed to post the links. seeing the links and vendor would be very helpful for those who can help you

 

[Giangi]

I think those diamonds come from fancydiamonds.net. Am I right?
In all fairness, grading fancy diamonds from pics is not really doable. I had a look on their website though, and it seemed IGI stones weren''t that off. Keep in mind it''s IGI Antwerp, not USA. A totally different thing.
A fancy deep pink at $15K isn''t really right. Supposing it really is deep pink, I suspect it''d grade out at I2 or so, to justify the really low asking price. Asking for more pictures would be helpful. I have dealt with them in the past and they are quite great.

 

[dkodner]

A classic example of why noone should ever buy a diamond,white or colored, by just a description and a picture. Poorly cut, heavily included, there is always a reason they are a low price. It may have a GIA that says it is one thing, but it may be just plain ugly, and then does it really have any value at all...??? This is just my PERSONAL opinion, but the GIA is not consistant in grading colored diamonds at all. Put 10 GIA intense pink diamonds next to each other, and I doubt you will find one that matches another in the group. Again, just my personal opinion. Also keep in mind, sometimes deep is great, and sometimes it can be too dark to have any life. There is my rant of the day...o) Have a good one.

 

[Scintillating]

DKodner - what is that beautious thing in your avatar?
Do share with us please.

Scintillating...

 

[dkodner]

Date: 8/31/2006 12:55:54 PM
Author: Scintillating
DKodner - what is that beautious thing in your avatar?

Do share with us please.


Scintillating...

That is a .53 carat natural fancy deep green diamond. Part of my Morningstar collection. I have a thing for beautious things...

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 8/31/2006 9:58:52 AM
Author: Giangi
I think those diamonds come from fancydiamonds.net. Am I right?
In all fairness, grading fancy diamonds from pics is not really doable. I had a look on their website though, and it seemed IGI stones weren''t that off. Keep in mind it''s IGI Antwerp, not USA. A totally different thing.
A fancy deep pink at $15K isn''t really right. Supposing it really is deep pink, I suspect it''d grade out at I2 or so, to justify the really low asking price. Asking for more pictures would be helpful. I have dealt with them in the past and they are quite great.

Yes. These diamonds are from fancydiamonds.net. I ordered once an IGI fancy intense yellowish orange diamond from them and the stone turned out looking like a golden champagne diamond. It is pretty but not what I wanted so I returned it and they promptly refunded my money. They do accept Pay Pal so there is less hassle and worry for refund compared to guys who accept only wire transfer.

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 8/31/2006 12:50:00 PM
Author: dkodner
A classic example of why noone should ever buy a diamond,white or colored, by just a description and a picture. Poorly cut, heavily included, there is always a reason they are a low price. It may have a GIA that says it is one thing, but it may be just plain ugly, and then does it really have any value at all...??? This is just my PERSONAL opinion, but the GIA is not consistant in grading colored diamonds at all. Put 10 GIA intense pink diamonds next to each other, and I doubt you will find one that matches another in the group. Again, just my personal opinion. Also keep in mind, sometimes deep is great, and sometimes it can be too dark to have any life. There is my rant of the day...o) Have a good one.

I totally agreed that one should never buy any diamond without actually seeing and evaluating it in person. I am not interested in pursuing the ones that I posted but I do love colored diamonds so I serve the net often to see if there are new items coming in. These piqued my interest because they look so obviously brownish in the pictures and the prices are way low to be in the fancy deep pink range for even I1s. Normally, the vendor often tries to make the pictures look better than what the stones really are but this time, they practically look brownish.

I also noticed that GIA is not consistent at all in grading the intensity level of colored diamonds. I’ve seen fancy lights that are more intense than the fancies. However, at least they were accurate in grading the secondary color and they tend to err on the conservative side. But these are simply off.

Wow. You said you have a morning star collection.

Please do share with some pictures and where are you getting your colored diamonds?

 

[CaptAubrey]

Quick reality check here: "Fancy intense pink" is a region in three-dimensional color space, not a specific color. Within that region, you are necessarily going to have varying appearances, but simply because a parcel of fancy intense pink diamonds don''t match exactly doesn''t mean they aren''t all fancy intense pink.

If you''ve read the various Gems & Gemology articles on fancy diamond color grading methodology, they make this quite clear. Color-grading fancy color diamonds is a much more complex process than grading colorless to near-colorless diamonds, which merely involves placing a diamond along a two-dimensional color continuum. It''s one of those things best left to experts, because it can be very confusing if you haven''t been formally trained in it.

But, this is why I agree that fancy color diamonds should never be purchased long distance--there is simply too much variabilty in appearances.

 

[movie zombie]

Kissingfish, did you you ever say who you were going through in AU for your pink?

movie zombie

 

[dkodner]

Date: 8/31/2006 2:48:17 PM
Author: CaptAubrey
Quick reality check here: ''Fancy intense pink'' is a region in three-dimensional color space, not a specific color. Within that region, you are necessarily going to have varying appearances, but simply because a parcel of fancy intense pink diamonds don''t match exactly doesn''t mean they aren''t all fancy intense pink.


If you''ve read the various Gems & Gemology articles on fancy diamond color grading methodology, they make this quite clear. Color-grading fancy color diamonds is a much more complex process than grading colorless to near-colorless diamonds, which merely involves placing a diamond along a two-dimensional color continuum. It''s one of those things best left to experts, because it can be very confusing if you haven''t been formally trained in it.


But, this is why I agree that fancy color diamonds should never be purchased long distance--there is simply too much variabilty in appearances.

It was not my intent to oversimplify the process of grading color, I apologize if it seemed that way. I do believe (and this is still my personal opinion) that it is the process the GIA uses that makes their color grading inconsistant. They use a system similar to grading white diamonds where they use master stones as comparison. Then they use descriptions that lump all of these different hues, lightness and saturations into one category (ie. intense pink). It is that simplicity of their descriptions that makes me say they are inconsistent. This does no service to the consumer, collector or dealers to really understand what they are buying. They could at least use something like a Rennilson-Hale Colorimeter and plot out where the stones falls in a three dimensional color space. These are expensive rare stones, and I just feel they deserve more scientific consideration and explanation than the GIA gives them. Again, this is my PERSONAL opinion, and I understand that this can be an agrued point from now until the end of time. I also realize that every natural colored diamond must be accompanied by a GIA report to show that it is indeed natural, but I like using people like Stephen Hofer''s reports to really describe the stone and detail its'' scientific properties. That way the collector/consumer really gets an idea of what they have purchased.

MAXSPINEL- I have posted a few pictures of some f the collection on here a while back, I will dig them up and post again if you would like. The core of the collection consists of the deep green, a deep blue (unlike any deep blue you have seen), a vivid purplish-pink, a deep violet and a fancy purplish-red. where do I get these..? all over the world..o) It is my profession...)

 

[dkodner]

MAX-

Since this is a pink diamond thread, here is the pink from the Morningstar collection. Enjoy..)


Cpt.- I should have started that last post with the fact that I agree with everything you said about how color is graded by GIA, I was being too simplistic in my example, I just don''t believe they do it correctly....

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/31/2006 4:18:28 PM
Author: dkodner
MAX-

Since this is a pink diamond thread, here is the pink from the Morningstar collection. Enjoy..)


Cpt.- I should have started that last post with the fact that I agree with everything you said about how color is graded by GIA, I was being too simplistic in my example, I just don''t believe they do it correctly....

Gotcha.

Nice pink.

 

[maxspinel]

I thought GIA has developed a system to grade colored gemstones which resembles the 3D spectrum that was referred to here. What I don’t understand is instead of adopting their color gemstones grading methodology to the color diamonds, they chose to stay with the current over-simplified approach which seems to model after the white diamonds. It is all very confusing to the consumers since we’ve learnt to rely on and trust GIA certificate. However, I am not sure now what the certificate is telling us. First, a lot of vendors opt for a GIA colored report which contains only the dimension and verification of natural color; all other pertinent data found in a normal white diamond report such as clarity, crown/pavilion angle, table %, symmetry/polish and fluoresce were all left out. The current system allows the vendor to freely represent the stone as they seem fit. It is not in the right direction to protect or enlighten a consumer. Even though clarity, cut and fluoresce is not as critical in colored diamonds but it does not mean they are totally not important. Nobody wants to get a piece of crappy carbon just because it contains some color. Well, if the color report can’t even get the color right, then all the certificate boils down to is only validation that the diamond is natural. I can’t really see it to be too useful. What are the better grading certificate on colored diamonds besides GIA? I know it is not IGI because it seems they are even worse.

Dkodner, love that pink

, more pictures please on your other collection. Love those colored diamonds

Just wish they are more affordable.

 

[Kissingfish]

Hi there..

I posted some links but thought I'd reply to this one also..

Original Diamonds here in Australia have a decent selection of pink diamonds, and some of them are GIA certified..

There's one for sale that has a price.. See below:

Shape: Oval [info]
Weight: 1.01 [info]
Color: Natural Fancy Deep Purplish Pink [info]
Clarity: I2 [info]
Certificate: GIA [info]
Total price in USD: $88,090.00

Actually looks exactly like the one on the picture you provided.. Only $8000 more expensive.

 

[movie zombie]

it seems the GIA diamonds are more $$$ than the IGI certified diamonds......seem to remember someone indicating that IGI standards are not as high as GIA?


movie zombie

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 8/31/2006 4:18:28 PM
Author: dkodner
MAX-

Since this is a pink diamond thread, here is the pink from the Morningstar collection. Enjoy..)


Cpt.- I should have started that last post with the fact that I agree with everything you said about how color is graded by GIA, I was being too simplistic in my example, I just don''t believe they do it correctly....

I just had to say how gorgeous the green and pink diamonds are!!!

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 8/31/2006 4:43:12 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 8/31/2006 4:18:28 PM
Author: dkodner
MAX-

Since this is a pink diamond thread, here is the pink from the Morningstar collection. Enjoy..)


Cpt.- I should have started that last post with the fact that I agree with everything you said about how color is graded by GIA, I was being too simplistic in my example, I just don''t believe they do it correctly....

Gotcha.

Nice pink.

Oh Captain, that''s the understatement of the year! I''m thinking glorious, fantasmagorious, AMAZINGLY delicious pink!!!

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 8/31/2006 8:12:14 PM
Author: Kissingfish
Hi there..

I posted some links but thought I''d reply to this one also..

Original Diamonds here in Australia have a decent selection of pink diamonds, and some of them are GIA certified..

I served the link that you posted and noticed that they share a lot of the same diamonds with fancydiamonds.net and fancycolordiamonds.net. Some of the stones which are not priced in the Original Diamonds actually have their prices posted in the other sites. I guessed pink diamonds are really very limited so vendors tend to share their stock.

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/31/2006 5:04:03 PM
Author: maxspinel

Nobody wants to get a piece of crappy carbon just because it contains some color.

Two words: Hancock Red

It holds the all-time per-carat record price of $926,000. It''s also an I1 with eye-visible inclusions.

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 8/31/2006 11:35:28 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 8/31/2006 5:04:03 PM
Author: maxspinel

Nobody wants to get a piece of crappy carbon just because it contains some color.

Two words: Hancock Red

It holds the all-time per-carat record price of $926,000. It''s also an I1 with eye-visible inclusions.

Hancock red diamond is no crap but the following is. Being a natural diamond doesn''t automatically make a stone desirable and having some color does not make it valuable. For colored diamonds, we can be more forgiving on the clarity and cut but there has to be a limit. At least the stone has to semi look and sparkle like a diamond; if not, it is simply colored carbon.

 

[dkodner]

Date: 8/31/2006 11:35:28 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 8/31/2006 5:04:03 PM

Author: maxspinel

Nobody wants to get a piece of crappy carbon just because it contains some color.

Two words: Hancock Red


It holds the all-time per-carat record price of $926,000. It''s also an I1 with eye-visible inclusions.

Okay...so with some, rarity trumps common sense...The hancock is not prettiest diamond, that is for sure, but prettier than Max''s brown bort in the picture there...still....there is a customer for everything...)
what do you think the hancock would have sold for if it looked like this...??......

 

[dkodner]

I just saw this today, it looks like this is a must for anyone who deals in, or just loves colored diamonds. I just ordered a copy, I''ll let you know what I think in comparison to Stephen Hofers "Collecting and Classifying Coloured Diamonds", which has been THE authoritative reference book for colored diamonds. Here is the link to the article on GIA''s new book.

http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/news/2006/082406story.html



Here is a link to the Hofer book:

http://www.amazon.com/Collecting-Classifying-Coloured-Diamonds-Illustrated/dp/0965941019/sr=8-1/qid=1157133461/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3664945-5189635?ie=UTF8&s=books

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/1/2006 1:58:53 PM
Author: dkodner
I just saw this today, it looks like this is a must for anyone who deals in, or just loves colored diamonds. I just ordered a copy, I''ll let you know what I think in comparison to Stephen Hofers ''Collecting and Classifying Coloured Diamonds'', which has been THE authoritative reference book for colored diamonds. Here is the link to the article on GIA''s new book.

http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/news/2006/082406story.html



Here is a link to the Hofer book:

http://www.amazon.com/Collecting-Classifying-Coloured-Diamonds-Illustrated/dp/0965941019/sr=8-1/qid=1157133461/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3664945-5189635?ie=UTF8&s=books

Wow. Thanks for the links. I am going to order these two books and study them hard.

Your collection is truly amazing. Few have the priviledge to see any of these wonders in person. You have shown the pictures of the deep green, vivid purplish pink and purplish red. How about the deep violet and deep blue that you mentioned ealier? I am still waiting

 

[mdx]

Hi Kissingfish

What is the Argyle color grading for your stone, Also clarity. Price seems very low for say 5p or better

Johan

 

[JulieN]

Kissingfish noted earlier that they''re 6p, SI1

 

[dkodner]

Date: 9/1/2006 8:24:32 PM
Author: maxspinel

Date: 9/1/2006 1:58:53 PM


Wow. Thanks for the links. I am going to order these two books and study them hard.


Your collection is truly amazing. Few have the priviledge to see any of these wonders in person. You have shown the pictures of the deep green, vivid purplish pink and purplish red. How about the deep violet and deep blue that you mentioned ealier? I am still waiting

Max- Thanks for the compliments. I am truly blessed to be able to see and touch these stones. They are some of the rarest things in nature. Here is the Deep Blue. You will notice this has so much saturation that it looks like a sapphire, but with more brilliance. It''s this amount of saturation of color that makes a stone like the Hope Diamond so incredible. Enjoy...