GIA does not give any Sarin info on a Diamond

[caratgirl]

Well! Either I have been bamboozled by the GIA lab in Carlsbad, or this is true...Maybe the experts can respond to this. I sent in a diamond for a GIA report in 2000. I have decided to sell the stone, and thought it would be nice to get the crown and pavilion information.

Just got off the phone with GIA, and they stated that they do a Sarin at the time of grading, but do not give that information out to either consumer OR trade people. I find that difficult to believe, since I have seen other posters state that you can get that information if you are the original owner that purchased the GIA report. Is this all hearsay?

If so, then I am quite disappointed!

 

[Mara]

GIA does not publish their crown and pav angles...and I think that they only give that data to TRADE people who purchased the stone and requested the report in the first place, not consumers. So if you had purchased the stone recently and your jeweler had gotten it from a wholesaler who bought the stone and send off for the report...then that owner/wholesaler could call GIA and get those #'s for you..but you can't call yourself. VERY roundabout and ridiculous if you ask me! What's the point?! You're just pi**ing the customer off and making them get their own Sarin at an appraiser anyway!

 

[caratgirl]

Hi Mara, I am the person who first submitted the stone for the GIA report, plus they claimed that they do not provide that information to trade people either. So I am stumped, since I thought that quite a few people had stated otherwise on the forum.

Anyone care to respond if they got this information from GIA (trade or consumer)? I just want to know if this is correct information or not.

 

[robbe]

hi caratgirl, it is true, gia does not provide full measurements on their report.


the only measured data they'll provide are


max & min diameter in mm, height in mm, total depth%, table% and that's about it.


occasionally, they'll mention that crown° is greater than...or less than...


this last one is most of the time an indication that the stone has slightly unusual crown angles, too flat or too steep, in other words: bad news.


luckily enough, they tell you the carat weight !!!


it remains a mistery for lots of people. the pav depth%, crown ° & crown% are essential info.


the problem that such incomplete report can create is that you could for example get 'very good-very good' for polish & sym grade however nothing on the report would indicate that your pav is 46.5 % making the stone dark and undesirable to many! can be deceving...


on the same subject in this forum, go to https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/will-gia-say-on-cut.6206/}




robbe

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Linda I know NYork does this, but had heard before that the west coast will not.
Would someone please confirm or deny?

Robbe pavilion depth and crown height %'s are pretty useless - we want to train everyone to use pavilin and crown angles.
Cutters all use angles.
Light uses angles.
With angles there are no extra calculations or allowances for culet etc.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Robbe a point in case - the stone in the thread "opinions pleas?"
41 degree pavilion, 43.1% depth.
Pointed culet is obviously not true. There is a 1% culet that subtracts .25 degrees from the comparison of angles to %'s.

 

[caratgirl]

Thanks to all the experts who have cleared up this mystery! Sure wish I had submitted the stone to NY now. Oh well, hopefully the buyer won't be a total cut nerd like all of us here.

Most people still don't know to ask for that information, so they will just have to depend on a jeweler's opinion of the price. I am also getting two bids from wholesalers, but I don't expect that to be the way to go. I don't see the point of wearing a 1.5 ct stone around my neck, so I will just have to sell it.

Luckily, I purchased it from a private party originally, so got an excellent price. At least I don't expect to lose any money on the sale. I'll have to browse through the diamonds on pricescope (not ideal cut) and decide how much lower to go. It's exact specs are: 1.48 ct round; J color; 65% table, but luckily the appraiser said that a fish-eye wasn't visible; 59.9% depth; polish & sym good; thn/med girdle; no flourescence; culet is small; SI2 clarity, but possibly the cleanest I have seen, since there is a tiny transparent cloud under the table and the grading inclusion is a feather that doesn't break the girdle edge. Measurements are 7.36x7.47x4.44, so the sym isn't the greatest, but sure isn't bad either.

It is a very sparkly stone, just not as nice as my H&A of course, and has no yellow tint. What do you guys think I could sell it for to a consumer? I was thinking $4500. Any comments? I am planning to put it in the newspaper first. I expect that any wholesaler would not offer me more than $3000, but I'll see.

 

[robbe]

*********************************


Robbe a point in case - the stone in the thread "opinions pleas?"
41 degree pavilion, 43.1% depth.


*********************************


i agree with all you say. only, in europe people are used to talk in % however most people in trade know the corresponding angles. but yes, perhaps it is wiser to talk angles rather than %.


all the best, robbe

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You are right Robbe - but it is the same world over.
I want to change it because it is the wrong way to think.
Also many people believe they can estimate pavilion depth using the Liddicoat table relfection (rapid sight) estimation system. Problem is it is no where near accurate enough for todays standards - it falls down with variances in table size, crown angle and girdle thickness.
But because people thought they could estimate pav depth it is usually quoted in %.

ramble ramble....
my hobby horse!

 

[robbe]

for some people to talk angles instead of % is a question of eduation (unless they are in the polishing business already).
for europe and parts of asia this is not something that's going to happen overnight.
also remember, there are labs that
1/mention too few numbers but the numbers they do mention are %(did i say gia?) and
2/ the other labs that do mention detailed info regarding all various parts of the stone usually mention these in ... %! (with a few exeptions made for cr°).
the question that i then ask myself is this:
given the fact that consumers are buying diamonds with reports mentioning % rather than °, isn't it almost utopic to try and convince them they should disregard % and only believe in °?(even if you're theoretically right).
you wrote above:

"pavilion depth and crown height %'s are pretty useless - we want to train everyone to use pavilin and crown angles.
Cutters all use angles.
Light uses angles."

"useless":i think it is a wrong approche to say useless. i would prefer to say "it is an oldfashion way for describing parts of a diamond, perhaps outdated as there are more efficient techniques".
you are absolutely right by saying that cutters & light are using angles, however to "train everyone to use pav & cr ° " is something that should be happening simultaniously with major labs.
my only concern when writing all this is potential confusion in the mind of consumers.
be well, robbe

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Robbe I agree it will not be easy.
But then i never was attracted to easy problems.
I will be working on a solution to the problem with 1 major lab this week.
Leonid and I have a good relationship with another lab.

Confusion for consumers is not important, they come, they ask questions, they buy and they clear out.
Most consumers of bigger more expensive diamonds are a lot smarter with #'s than most retail and trade diamond people. The blockage is trade not consumers. The consumers are faster learners. how many jewellers do you know who could hold an intelligent conversation with any one of 1,000,000 Pricescope educated consumers?

So folks - get out there and ask for angles.
Ring IGI and EGL USA and GIA and ask for angles.
If they all had jammed switch boards for 3 weeks I guarantee we could crate some change!

After all - ask a cutter to give you the %'s and he will reach for a chart