GIA color grading?

[Sue H]

Hi All, Stumbled over your site last week and think it''s great especially for the lay person.

OK I''m not sorta, lol Have a small jewelry non brick & mortor, have bought & sold Diamonds and other stones and have a fair knowledge base, But now I''m somewhat perplexed

. I just had my own stone that was my grandmothers certified by GIA. Never thought much about it as I knew the grading and was sure of the color, that was until now!

Could someone explain to me how a stone almost 3ct, VVS, no floresence, good sym & polish go from an H-I to an M?

Everything else matched but the color grade. Thier explanation that from the top it''s an H-I but from the bottom it''s a M??????? Every jeweler on the street who has looked at my stone over the years encluding apprasials have said H or I This does not make sense to me. That is a serious drop in value. GIA is sticking to their evaluation.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/14/2010 12:11:32 AM
Author:Sue H
Hi All, Stumbled over your site last week and think it's great especially for the lay person.

OK I'm not sorta, lol Have a small jewelry non brick & mortor, have bought & sold Diamonds and other stones and have a fair knowledge base, But now I'm somewhat perplexed

. I just had my own stone that was my grandmothers certified by GIA. Never thought much about it as I knew the grading and was sure of the color, that was until now!

Could someone explain to me how a stone almost 3ct, VVS, no floresence, good sym & polish go from an H-I to an M?

Everything else matched but the color grade. Thier explanation that from the top it's an H-I but from the bottom it's a M??????? Every jeweler on the street who has looked at my stone over the years encluding apprasials have said H or I This does not make sense to me. That is a serious drop in value. GIA is sticking to their evaluation.

See if this slide helps - the color spectrum of the material is digitally identical

 

[Sue H]

Thanks for the response Gary, but it still doesn''t explain such a wide disparity. Like I mentioned I''ve dealt with stone''s, always trusted my vendors if they were not GIA certified with a grade lower differential if it was not GIA certified, although that hasn''t happened to often most come in as specified. But this being my own personal stone and being my grandmothers I never bothered to have it certified until the mounting needed some repair and I decided to bring it in while it was out of the setting. True it is a beautiful stone and proportionally is well cut for the max light reflection and I would have even excepted a J by GIA standards But an M. How can this be??????

Just a note: Stone never left my line of sight when my setter popped it out, and I took it the half a block to GIA from there. Just in case you were going to ask

.

 

[stone-cold11]

Maybe just a difference in opinion but colorless diamond grading is from the side and GIA sets the standard for D-Z color grades. You could get a second opinion from an independent appraiser or ask a jeweler to sent it to AGS for another grading?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

What cut shape and give us all (like all) the details please.

 

[Sue H]

As I said earlieir this was my Grandmothers stone brought from Russia in the early 1900"s, Was always told the Origin: was Russian. it is an older cut and every Jeweler -Apprasiaer just eyeballing it has told me it was a old Mine Cut (not an ugly off shape mine) but GIA said it''s not by their standards. Also they did not Note* the girdle is un-polished** and a few other characteristics of the stone like the cutlet is a hair off center. Somewhat disapointing as I thought with a older stone they would have exact plotted it.

Shape: Round Billiant
Meas: 9.09 -9.27 x 5.45
Ct Wt: 2.89
Color M
Clarity: VVS2
Cut: Very Good
Total Depth: 59.4%
Table Size: 65%
Crown Angle: 30.5*
Crown Height: 10.5%
Pavillian angle: 41.6*
Pavilian Depth: 44.5%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 65%
Girdle: Med. to Thick (4.5%)
Cutlet: Small
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None

Hope that helps, Thanks for taking the time.

1 last note* I''ve had it apprased several time''s over the years for insurance purposes and working with jewelers, diamond dealers, cutters & setters on 47th & Seybold Building in Miami they always wanted a closer look as it was so brilliant and all have told me it was an H-I , the jeweler who custom made my mounting 15 years ago (before I learned to design & cast my own) and apprasied it as well, bet me that GIA would bring it in as and I-J when I stopped by on my way to GIA. These people are all professionals and deal with Diamonds all day long. And yes I too will most often request a GIA certification (the Industry Standard) for purposes of verifing stone''s are not altered, enhansed or even synthetic larger than .50 if it''s not a someone I have deal with. As I said in my first post I am a novice in this biz but thought I had a good eye to loop and gestimate a grade but smart enough to rely and learn from the people who have guided me the prossess. So I''m in total shock with GIA''s results. How can a stone that appears that white (h-I)grade down that low (M) ???

 

[oldminer]

I have a long history of experience with old cut diamonds. Nearly always they appear better color face-up in their settings than they appear from the side when unset. Almost everyone who sells already mounted old cuts knowingly or foolishly overgrades their color by several grades because all that they, and you, can see is the top view. It is really a rare occasion these days to find an H color old mine cut primarily because so many of these have already been recut to modern standards and there were not some many really good color diamonds as off color ones from the very beginning of the diamond business.

Once you have your old diamond reset it will again fool most everyone who might be asked to grade it for color. Since GIA wants all diamonds unset, they have a much better opportunity to know the body color viewed from the side.

 

[dssxxxx]

All appraisals for my wife''s diamond (the trade in for those who have been following) was her gandmother''s (wife is 54) and was graded I.

When we had the GIA report finsihed, it came in K. We were surprised because it did not look yellow and always looked white from the top and she was always complimented on the stone. Oh, this was a 3.69. Such is life.....you learn something all the time.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/14/2010 12:52:32 PM
Author: oldminer
I have a long history of experience with old cut diamonds. Nearly always they appear better color face-up in their settings than they appear from the side when unset. Almost everyone who sells already mounted old cuts knowingly or foolishly overgrades their color by several grades because all that they, and you, can see is the top view. It is really a rare occasion these days to find an H color old mine cut primarily because so many of these have already been recut to modern standards and there were not some many really good color diamonds as off color ones from the very beginning of the diamond business.

Once you have your old diamond reset it will again fool most everyone who might be asked to grade it for color. Since GIA wants all diamonds unset, they have a much better opportunity to know the body color viewed from the side.

Interesting! Is the diff between face up and side/bottom color grading for old miners more disparate than for RBs generally speaking? If so, why is this?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/14/2010 6:12:13 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Interesting! Is the diff between face up and side/bottom color grading for old miners more disparate than for RBs generally speaking? If so, why is this?

DD look carefully at my photo above.
The answer is it depends more on the proportions and out of roundness of the old miner than anything else.
A stone that has a great ideal-scope image will face up much better than one with a lot of ''bouncing around''.
See the corner areas of color concentration on the emerad cut vs the straight sides.

 

[Sue H]

Well Guy/Gals as I said I''m learning something every day

I guess it is what it is, but still don''t understand such a wide differential from an (H) to a (M) and just one last note* my custom mounting had it prong set with the full pavilian exposed so anyone looking at it saw the full scale of the stone from side view, if that would matter.

The good part is I won''t have to pay such hi premiums on my insurance

lol As I said it is my personal stone with family history so I didn''t have it certified to resell, just for my own peace of mind. Hay I have my baby ring that was my Great Grandmothers .25 point Old Mine & Burmese Ruby that my granddaughter will get as soon as I feel she''s responsibile enough not to lose it. But I''m still curious to:

"Interesting! Is the diff between face up and side/bottom color grading for old miners more disparate than for RBs generally speaking? If so, why is this? " asked by DD

As well as how it would affect the value if in a clean stone such as mine (VVS) looks so white set but grades so low?????? So we are not talking standard scale of appraising are we (D- P) ? wouldn''t it have a higher value based on appearance anomolies ???