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GIA Changing Cut Report

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by StevL, Aug 11, 2001.

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  1. StevL
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    by StevL » Aug 11, 2001
    Interesting short article in JCK magazine.One note:
    "It's one thing to add more information, but we also want to explain why it's important, says GIA president William E. Boyajian, adding, "We are close to a whole different level of understanding about cut. It could be a paradigm shift in people's thinking about it."------------------
    StevL
    www.demsjewelers.com
    www.eightstar.com
     
    


    


  2. Garry H (Cut Nut)
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Aug 11, 2001
    Quote that comes up with HCA results " Many diamonds with excellent scores may not be traditional 'ideal cuts' but we
    believe their value will rise once the GIA establishes its cut standard. " - This comment will one day be vindicated and so many AGS 0 stones will drop in value.I showed Bill my notes (my lap top crashed) at Vegas and gave him an ideal-scope. He was politely encouraging (which probably means he thinks I am a raving looney) and wanted to know more about the article I am preparing for publication.
    He understood the relationship between crown and pavilion angles and clearly wants to find solutions.
    He made it very clear both he and the board (2 other board members confirmed this) are sick of pooring money and resources into the bottomless pit. I dont know if he is fully aware of the cold war that Sergey, Yuri and team are winning by a country mile - but then we know more about the MSU team than the GIA team's progress.
    Hence the 2 ultimatums - show us something early 2002 and finish the job early 2003.Interesting times.
     
  3. jamesd
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    by jamesd » Aug 11, 2001
    Interesting times indeed. It'll be ironic that once they are done they seem likely to conclude that a FireScope is the best commercially available tool. It is the best commercially available tool I know for the job and given the practical results it has produced in the form of the EightStar diamond cut its not without lots of support in the real world.Ah well - we can only hope that AGS and GIA choose the same fundamental tool even if they do end up using different scales. At least we'd be in the pleasing position of having compatible systems if that happens, as has been done with the AGS respecting the popular GIA color grades.
     
  4. lawmax
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    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2001
    That phrase "paradigm shift" sure sounds familiar. [​IMG]
     
    


    


  5. pricescope
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    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2001
    Thank you StevL for the info.More data for me [​IMG] is as diamonds for some [​IMG]
     
  6. StevL
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  7. jamesd
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    by jamesd » Aug 11, 2001
    Amazing how lots of different people can come to the same conclusion, isn't it? Also interesting to see what happens when you aren't tied to a vested interest in a particular tool you're using or selling but can consider hem all and the scientific background to work out what to do.Lots of room for a paradigm shift and it's not at all hard to explain what and why.
     
  8. katbadness
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    by katbadness » Feb 10, 2004
    Out of curiosity, is this an article that is available for people in the trade only? I'm interested in reading it.
     
  9. pqcollectibles
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    by pqcollectibles » Feb 10, 2004

    But what about AGS0's that score well now on the HCA, Garry?? Would you expect them to drop as well?? [​IMG]
     
  10. mdx
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    by mdx » Feb 10, 2004
    Hi Katbadness

    Here is the article

    Johan

    The Gemological Institute of America introduced some of its key findings on cut grade research at a breakfast seminar during the recent Centurion jewelry show held Feb. 1-5 at the Westin La Paloma Resort in Tucson, Ariz. GIA intends to incorporate expanded cut information on all its grading reports and Diamond Dossiers for all standard round D to Z color diamonds, possibly as early as later this year.
    In a move certain to arouse controversy, GIA has definitively stated that a range of proportions can produce a top cut grade, rather than having only one single set of proportions be considered the benchmark.

    The introductory breakfast was part of the Centurion series of morning retailer roundtables. Other sessions during the show included such topics as employee relations and training, presented by Kate Peterson of Performance Concepts; hosting a trunk show, with Terry Sisco of ExSELLerate; and the opportunities to be found in the Echo Boom bridal market, presented by Nina Lawrence, publisher of the Conde Nast Bridal Group. GIA’s Tom Moses explained the process by which GIA has been developing its cut grades, a process that includes a combination of proprietary computer models and observation testing.

    Visual observation testing has played a much more central role in GIA’s cut grade research in the past few years, whereas its earlier testing was based heavily on computer models. But stones that should have been beautiful according to the computer model sometimes weren’t, whereas stones that theoretically should have been dull or unattractive were sometimes beautiful, said Moses. That led to a revision of much of GIA’s earlier research, with the results expected to produce a scale for evaluating cut later this year.

    The new cut grading scale will emphasize the relationship of facet angles and proportions to each other and how a stone looks as a result of those relationships, rather than comparing a stone to a specific set of proportions.

    “Having a range [of proportions] means that there are more options available to manufacturers and consumers,” he said. “GIA had manufacturers cut diamonds to various proportions to validate both good and bad cuts according to the computer model,” he explained.

    The grading system will also have provisions for considering certain extreme physical attributes that affect the face-up appearance of a stone, whether positively or negatively. Additionally, other attributes such as a thick girdle that makes the stone appear smaller than its carat weight or a knife-edge girdle that makes the stone prone to chipping and breakage will also be taken into account.

    A member of the audience asked about established cuts, such as the Ideal cut or the Hearts on Fire cut or other proprietary cuts. Moses said those cuts fall into the top categories for the most part, and they still remain one of the options for having a top cut, but that they are not the only option for a top cut.

    The panel included two retailers, Bev Hori from Ben Bridge and Susan Eisen from Susan Eisen Fine Jewels, and one manufacturer, Sheldon Kwiat. Kwiat said that diamond cutters have known for years that ideal is very pretty but so are other proportions, and both Hori and Eisen pointed out that consumers look at a diamond on the hand, not through a loupe
     
    


    


  11. pqcollectibles
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    by pqcollectibles » Feb 10, 2004
    Thanks for printing the article, Johan. It will be interesting to see the new GIA Certs when they come available. [​IMG]
     
  12. Nicrez
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    by Nicrez » Feb 10, 2004
    How on earth will the prices fall if:

    1. Even though some retailers don't know the "true value" of the stone's AGS 0 value the stone is still the same size, clarity and color.

    2. Factoring in only cut, it's my belief that these stones with the AGS 0 grade will still be sold as excllent performers, but as an alternative to GIA's optimal stones...they will claim that cut is subjective...so, considering salesmanship what kind of price drop will be shown, if any?

    3. Once GIA has a final "measurement" of the cut quality (which many people still debate as subjective in the perfect angles and proportions), this will just unearth "ideal" stones that regularly where hidden amoung other lower AGS graded stones, but still are priced quite high. how much DOES an ideal non-branded cut demand in premium over other stones? Me personally, I have never met a jeweler who said, "you know what, this stone is cut improperly, let me give you 40% off!" NO! They defend it to their last breath. Most anyway.

    4. Rap prices have recently gone up. And then just a few days ago, they went right back UP AGAIN. I don't see the diamond industry DROPPING prices on a luxury commodity. A diamond is only as valuable as it's supply and demand levels being perfectly in tune for an optimal profit margin...
     
  13. Garry H (Cut Nut)
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Feb 10, 2004
    Re the AGS 0 grades going up down and side ways.

    Steep deep AGS 0 will have a lot less demand and i predict AGS will then change thier standards - so >41P >35 C will fall in value.

    Nice AGS 0 will stay at a premium
    nice AGS 6's will go up in value and cutters will produce more of them because more people will want to buy / sell them.

    Its all about supply and demand.
     
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