GIA and AGS ideal specs

[ShoppingForARing]

Ok, so I am in contact with a diamond wholesaler. He said he will get me prices at wholesale price. What specs should I request from him other than the 4 C's I want in order to make sure I am getting a diamond that is on par with a AGS 0 diamond. He said he uses GIA papers. So what do I need to request in order to get a diamond based on a GIA report that would prox. equal to a AGS 0 diamond. Although he said he'll try to get AGS diamonds(?)

This is what I have so far in my email. anything else I'm missing to say? I don't know how wholesalers work..so any advice on what I should request to cut time would be great!

Hey XXXXX,

I hope you're doing well. It was great talking to you on the phone. I wanted to send the specs for the diamond i'm interested in.

Round Solitaire
VVS1-VVS2
Color - DEFGH
1.10-1.30
I would really like to see an AGS report. Preferably a 0.
Price range is 8,000-9,000


Here is a spec on a diamond I saw that I really liked....


Excellent Symmetry & Polish is OK...It doesn't need to be Ideal

Report: AGS
. Shape: Round H&A
. Carat: 1.130
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 56
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 52
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.67-6.70X4.12
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

 

[Regular Guy]

Shopping,

Where did you get the specs for the one you posted?

And...why do you like your wholesaler?

Do you particularly trust them? Why? If not...you''d be second guessing yourself if you ran one your wholesaler found by this board...since the vendors here have been vetted already, and you''d intend to use their reputation as one of the rationals for making a purchase decision.

Otherwise...this one from JA might even both beat your budget, and give you your specs. That the cert is not on line causes some worry from the get go. Also, though it''s even possible it''s virtual enough your wholesaler guy can buy it up...it may not be. Your next step with that one would be to, I suppose, ask to see the cert, and get advice on it from someone who might speculate on its favorable pricing.

Further...though this thread...if you''re trying to nail it with advice in advance, that advice might not be sufficient enough. Or...maybe the latter advice is best.

 

[ShoppingForARing]

the specs were from whiteflash...priced at around $12,000...The wholesaler is a friend of a friend...I trust him..but I would ask for certs..but I just want to know what questions to ask him via email so i''m covering all my grounds in making sure the diamond is brilliant, sparkles, and worth the price he tells me...


i don''t want to give him specs and a budget that is appropriate for the specs i gave him...

 

[Regular Guy]

Shopping,

Consider typing into the search box above at right: "friend of a friend," and see your results (which max out at 300).

Consider asking why a diamond which would earn AGS0 specs wasn't sent to AGS? My thought...if they consider speaking critically of the diamond, and in a circumspect way...you may begin to be OK. If they start to talk about how any diamond might go anywhere based on many factors...become leery.

 

[Cleo]

Ditto to everything that Ira Z. posted.

''Friend of a friend'' transactions unfortunately have a tendency to become sticky, as borne out by the many posts here.

If you want an AGS0 diamond, I would recommend buying a diamond that has been certified by AGSL as such.

In order to achieve this within your budget, you might like to consider looking at VS1 or VS2 diamonds. These diamonds are almost always completely eyeclean, and it''s often very difficult to spot the inclusions even with a 10x loupe. If a diamond is eyeclean, then visually it''s no different from an IF diamond. Personally, if I can SEE the difference between IF and VS2 (or even an eyeclean SI1) then I''d rather take the lower clarity & get a bigger stone, or save the money!

It''s a personal choice though - and if you want to stick with VVS1/VVS2 fair enough.

Here''s a lovely 1.20ct G VS2 diamond with an awesome cut. $9164 bankwire price.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4737/

There''s a photo of the actual diamond... see what you think.

x x x

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

One of the problems of finding AGS-graded goods is that many are going through specialized distribution-channels. Most cutters, who use AGS, work with a group of specialized retailers or sell directly online.

The other day, I was checking Rapnet (a database of diamonds available for the trade), and found only a few hundred AGS-stones (634 rounds between 1.00 and 2.50) on their listing, compared to thousands of GIA-graded stones (I found about 850 between 1.00 and 1.05 only).

Live long,

 

[MissGotRocks]

If a stone is truly on par with an AGS0 stone, it would have the certification. I think most everyone in the trade would want to receive and sell an AGS0 stone rather than just offering it up as being ''on par'' with an AGS0 rating.

I dealt with a supposed ''wholesaler'' for years - long before the internet was available. I found out the hard way - like many other posters - that there truly is no such thing. Certainly not in dealing with top of the line, well cut stones. They can get you stones and they may be beautiful but they won''t hit the high mark at a reduced price. Just doesn''t happen - friend or no friend. I finally had to take a big loss on the final stone I bought from him to trade it in on a certified stone.

The good news is that in today''s market, there are jewelers and internet sources for beautiful stones with cut quality that rival the best. They also have wonderful upgrade policies. If this had been available in my heydey of diamond shopping, it would have eliminated many years of frustration and lost dollars.

Just tread carefully. Do your homework and if you do in fact decide to buy a stone from this wholesaler, make sure he has a return policy and make sure you take the stone to an independent appraiser. That is the only true way to know if what you bought was what you thought it was and if the price was right.

Don''t mean to sound like a downer - just been there, done that. Best of luck with your diamond shopping!!

 

[denverappraiser]

1.00/VVS2/H and 1.30/VVS1/D with comparable cuts and pedigree will vary by more than a factor of three, even from the same dealer. If you’re serious about sticking to that price range you need to narrow down your specs. In top tier cutting, you are unlikely to find anything beyond the bottom part of that range.

Here’s one from the database with AGSL paperwork that fits your specs.
Blue Nile 1.03 H/VVS2 AGS-Ideal $8025.

Here's another that fits the top of your range.
Union Diamond, 1.27 D/VVS1 AGS-Ideal $26,228

There ARE GIA graded stones that will get AGS-0 if submitted to that lab but because GIA enjoys so much better a brand recognition that some of the cutters/distributers prefer to go GIA in order to get a more mass market audience. Much of the point of the GIA cut grading system is to allow dealers to sell diamonds as more of a commodity without getting into the messy details of what makes one better than another. Sales go faster, employees require less training and the required depth of inventory goes down. Everything is excellent so just close your eyes and hand over your wallet. As Paul points out, AGS dealers and dealers in AGSL graded stones tend to be a more boutique type of channel who are eager to differentiate themselves. In any case, if that’s your objective, just start by looking for AGS papers. The ‘sweet spot’ of GIA-excellent/AGS-0 is much easier to hit that way.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[purrfectpear]

Is this wholesaler willing to give you full value for your diamond in a trade later on? GOG and Whiteflash do. You don''t have to spend twice the value either. I can take my Whiteflash diamond and pick another tomorrow for a few dollars more and they will give me my full cost as trade in.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/12/2008 6:57:00 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

If a stone is truly on par with an AGS0 stone, it would have the certification. I think most everyone in the trade would want to receive and sell an AGS0 stone rather than just offering it up as being ''on par'' with an AGS0 rating.

This isn''t always the case.

As Neil points out, since GIA enjoys much wider name recognition in the consumer marketplace, many dealers do have a strong relationship with GIA. For some of them, it would perhaps take more effort than it''s worth to segregate stones for various labs. It''s easier to send them all the GIA, especially if the dealer does enough volume to enjoy an expedited turn-around schedule, etc.

There are GIA stones that are comparable to AGS0, but it does require homework on the part of the consumer to identify them. Since it''s easier to just identify AGS0 stones by the AGS0 paper, that would be a quicker way.

 

[Allison D.]

What concerns me more about your scenario is the ''wholesaler''.

Regardless of the relationship, wholesalers don''t sell to the public. If they do, they aren''t truly wholesalers.

If I had a nickel for every ''wholesaler who''s a friend of a friend'' scenarios people bring here to Pricescope.....well, I''d have a LOT of nickels.

The best person to look out for your interests in YOU. I''d really recommend working through more traditional, transparent channels to avoid finding out the deal you''re getting isn''t really less than what you expect.