Getting a cert with removing the stone?

[bvap]

I am looking at an engagement ring from an antique jeweler. The ring is a 1920''s art deco piece with a 2 carat round stone. The dealer has been in the same location for 60 years is reputable. Through a friend it is being offered for 11k.

Here is the question:

Since it is an antique ring with an antique stone the diamond has no cert. The dealer will have it done by EGL-LA. I wondered why not GIA and he said that they would have to remove the stone from the setting to grade it. Can a stone be graded with out removing it? Does it damage a ring to remove the stone for grading?

He is claiming that it is a 2.0k G SI1 It looks very nice and the color compares with others that he has that have certs.

any advise?

Bvap

 

[Michael_E]

HI Bvap,
A cert on a mounted stone is basically worthless. To grade for color the stone has to be clean, upside down and placed next to a master set of accurately graded diamonds of different color levels. You can't get the stone perfectly clean or get an accurate color with the stone mounted.
Clarity grading with the stone mounted is almost as difficult. Is it in prongs ? What's under the prongs ? Same goes for a bezel set stone. If you can't get to a stone from all angles, then the grade that is assigned to it is going to be an educated guess at the best.
How about weight ? I've got a buddy who just bought an old ring like that which was advertised as being 2.80 carats(estimated). When he finally removed the stone it weighed 3.24 carats and was one color grade higher, due to a dirty girdle that was hidden by the bezel. Sometimes you get lucky!
At the end of the day, if the price is right, you like it and intend to keep it, then who really cares what the cert would say, buy it!

 

[valeria101]

I'll just add up my o.2...

Perfect grading in setting is not feasible, but pricing and appraisal sure is

You may be able to get an appraisal before final purchase (just as happens with diamonds sold from online sellers). Why not?

I suppose that claiming G-SI, 2cts for a set stone means the thing looks quite white, and has some inclusion visile under magnification in current conditions. What you see is what you get - and this is better to have an unbiased professional take an unbiased professional look

Estate jewelry is bought and sold every day. I believe EGL woudl emit a cert with split color and clarity grades for the mounted stone with the disclaimer "graded as setting permits" (or such). Not sure wether gIA would procede the same, but it surely takes more time for GIA to do anything. An appraser would do this faster tha EGL still and advice on value - something that the labs do not so. Also, you can get some idea on the optics of the piece - if of concern.

The price seems right even if the grades slip a bit below the claim (say, G/H - SI1/SI2, 1.9cts) and settings are not free either

Just a thought, of course.

 

[DiamondExpert]

GIA grades only loose stones.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

That's one of the nice things about EGL. They're not afraid to give their professional opinion on a mounted stone.

The majority of stones an appraiser has to grade are mounted. It's not as easy or accurate as grading a loose diamond, but it's certainly better than nothing in helping a consumer make a decision.

Usually a good appraiser is going to be close (if not dead on) with the grading of a mounted stone, as well as weight estimation, etc. If you consider the grading of a loose diamond as a 100% situation, I would characterize the grading of a mounted diamond as a 90% situation.

If it's easy to take the diamond out for grading, that's what I would suggest. If taking the diamond out damages the mounting, then I'd go for the second best option, grading it while mounting.

 

[69gm]

i would listen to anything rich has to say. not only is he honest, he specializes in antiques appraisals so you know he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Giangi]

EGL-LA is getting better and better these days. As others have said, a cert issued on a mounted stone will NOT be as accurate as one done on a loose stone, but will list any possible enhacement and split color and clarity grades (like G-H or F-G). Of course, I would prefer getting a GIA report on a loose stone... But I say that an EGL appraisal on a piece of jewelry is definitely better than nothing.

 

[bvap]

Thanks for all your help with this, I will have it done and report back the results.

Bvap