Gently heated, heated, aggressively heated ??? (vendors please chim in)

[haagen_dazs]

some vendors mentioned that their stones are gently heated, some others just say its heated

i have not seen a description of a stone that is "aggressively heated" =p

anyways anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[chrono]

Technically, there is no such thing as gentle heating. Depending on the type of stone and the final desired colour, it can be a low temperature heating (hundreds of degrees) or high temperature (thousands of degrees). Sometimes, the word gentle heating is used in an attempt to distinguish it from the extreme heating that is required for beryllium heating or where other elements have also been introduced.

 

[morecarats]

"Gentle heat" is what sellers say when they would prefer to sell a heated gem as unheated, but don''t want to commit an outright fraud.

As Matthew Arnold famously said, "Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue."

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/5/2009 4:11:33 AM
Author: morecarats
''Gentle heat'' is what sellers say when they would prefer to sell a heated gem as unheated, but don''t want to commit an outright fraud.

ha interesting.
thats still not a good thing from a buyers point of view if the seller would like to sell it as unheated =(

i would prefer that when vendors use gentle heating, its more because the seller does not know if it has been heated treated or not (since it is sometimes very hard to tell) and rather sell it heated than unheated to avoid integrity problems

and if the stone did turn out unheated then the buyer gains

 

[LD]

In Thailand, "gentle heat" or "low heat" is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

 

[chrono]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:56:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
In Thailand, ''gentle heat'' or ''low heat'' is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

Oh geez....

Thanks for the heads up, LD.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:56:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
In Thailand, ''gentle heat'' or ''low heat'' is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

i thought i read somewhere here that BE treatment requires extremely high temperatures (close to the the melting point?? )

 

[chrono]

Date: 11/5/2009 3:21:12 PM
Author: haagen_dazs

Date: 11/5/2009 1:56:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
In Thailand, 'gentle heat' or 'low heat' is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

i thought i read somewhere here that BE treatment requires extremely high temperatures (close to the the melting point?? )

That's what I thought as well too. Is this a new technique?

ETA
I recalled your asking about diffusion with other elements. It looks like it has been tried:
http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/su03a1.pdf

 

[morecarats]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:56:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
In Thailand, ''gentle heat'' or ''low heat'' is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

Please don''t malign the reputation of gem dealers in Thailand without citing specific cases. You can damage the reputation of dealers who have worked long and hard to build honest businesses.

Of course eBay sellers are famous for fraudulent descriptions. But can you give us examples of Thai dealers who are offering BE treated gemstones for sale with the treatment described as "gentle heat" or "low heat"?

Here are some examples of reputable dealers in Thailand who are very clear about the treatment of BE treated gems:

http://www.ajsgems.com/sapphire/yellow-sapphire/yellow-sapphire-1.03-carats.html

http://www.gemselect.com/sapphire/sapphire-176674.php

 

[chrono]

www.multicolour.com is another very reputable vendor based in Thailand who discloses their treatment in a fair and honest manner.

 

[LD]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:48:57 PM
Author: morecarats

Date: 11/5/2009 1:56:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
In Thailand, 'gentle heat' or 'low heat' is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

Please don't malign the reputation of gem dealers in Thailand without citing specific cases. You can damage the reputation of dealers who have worked long and hard to build honest businesses.

Of course eBay sellers are famous for fraudulent descriptions. But can you give us examples of Thai dealers who are offering BE treated gemstones for sale with the treatment described as 'gentle heat' or 'low heat'?

Here are some examples of reputable dealers in Thailand who are very clear about the treatment of BE treated gems:

http://www.ajsgems.com/sapphire/yellow-sapphire/yellow-sapphire-1.03-carats.html

http://www.gemselect.com/sapphire/sapphire-176674.php

First of all, apologies. I've got my terminology wrong. The wording I was referring to was "new heat". Please see below.

Morecarats - I am not tarring everybody with the same brush. Absolutely not. There are some excellent companies in Thailand (and I've bought from both you've mentioned and Multicolour also). I have found them all to be truthful about what they sell/don't sell.

On a UK forum, a gemstone buyer, based in Thailand said this:-

While we sell both heated and beryllium-heated (‘new heat’) Purple Sapphires, most are enhanced by ‘new heat’; as per our treatments page, you’d best assume this enhancement. With the vast majority of gems enhanced in some way, always assuming enhancements is sensible and pragmatic. Also, don’t forget that ‘natural’ refers to a gem that has not been enhanced in any way. Finding an attractive natural Sapphire is about as common as unicorns when you consider well over 90 percent of Sapphires are enhanced in some way.

In Chanthaburi, Thailand, the international processing capital for Sapphires, around 30 percent of Sapphires are subjected to ‘new heat’. Why? Simply put, there is an ever growing demand for attractive Sapphires. Totally permanent, ‘new heat’ has set the colour standard for certain Sapphire varieties and at the end of the day, beryllium-heated Sapphires look better. As long as it is disclosed, I am a big advocate and proponent of this enhancement. Particularly considering I have lived in the town it was developed (Chanthaburi) for eight years.

In my mind, it is innovations like this enhancement that will ensure the future of an industry I dearly love.

I struggle with the above statement as not only do I find the terminology "new heat" misleading but saying that it "sets the standard"?????????????? This is from somebody who is a gemstone buyer. I later spoke to this person who told me that the term "new heat" is commonly used in Thailand. That may not be true but I'm not based in Thailand so can't confirm.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 11/6/2009 9:22:41 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 11/5/2009 8:48:57 PM
Author: morecarats

Date: 11/5/2009 1:56:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
In Thailand, ''gentle heat'' or ''low heat'' is now commonly (and to my mind misleadingly) referred to BE treated gemstones.

Please don''t malign the reputation of gem dealers in Thailand without citing specific cases. You can damage the reputation of dealers who have worked long and hard to build honest businesses.

Of course eBay sellers are famous for fraudulent descriptions. But can you give us examples of Thai dealers who are offering BE treated gemstones for sale with the treatment described as ''gentle heat'' or ''low heat''?

Here are some examples of reputable dealers in Thailand who are very clear about the treatment of BE treated gems:

http://www.ajsgems.com/sapphire/yellow-sapphire/yellow-sapphire-1.03-carats.html

http://www.gemselect.com/sapphire/sapphire-176674.php

First of all, apologies. I''ve got my terminology wrong. The wording I was referring to was ''new heat''. Please see below.

Morecarats - I am not tarring everybody with the same brush. Absolutely not. There are some excellent companies in Thailand (and I''ve bought from both you''ve mentioned and Multicolour also). I have found them all to be truthful about what they sell/don''t sell.

On a UK forum, a gemstone buyer, based in Thailand said this:-

While we sell both heated and beryllium-heated (‘new heat’) Purple Sapphires, most are enhanced by ‘new heat’; as per our treatments page, you’d best assume this enhancement. With the vast majority of gems enhanced in some way, always assuming enhancements is sensible and pragmatic. Also, don’t forget that ‘natural’ refers to a gem that has not been enhanced in any way. Finding an attractive natural Sapphire is about as common as unicorns when you consider well over 90 percent of Sapphires are enhanced in some way.

In Chanthaburi, Thailand, the international processing capital for Sapphires, around 30 percent of Sapphires are subjected to ‘new heat’. Why? Simply put, there is an ever growing demand for attractive Sapphires. Totally permanent, ‘new heat’ has set the colour standard for certain Sapphire varieties and at the end of the day, beryllium-heated Sapphires look better. As long as it is disclosed, I am a big advocate and proponent of this enhancement. Particularly considering I have lived in the town it was developed (Chanthaburi) for eight years.

In my mind, it is innovations like this enhancement that will ensure the future of an industry I dearly love.

I struggle with the above statement as not only do I find the terminology ''new heat'' misleading but saying that it ''sets the standard''?????????????? This is from somebody who is a gemstone buyer. I later spoke to this person who told me that the term ''new heat'' is commonly used in Thailand. That may not be true but I''m not based in Thailand so can''t confirm.

There are all kinds of people in the gemstone business. Some have a clue and some ... well, some need a bit more experience.

The term "new heat" is a bad translation of the Thai phrase "paw mai" meaning "new heat treatment". The Thais know what it means, but we we have technical terms in English for lattice diffusion or beryllium treatment, so the standard terms should be used. Anything less would be misleading.

There is indeed an active industry producing yellow and orange sapphires by beryllium treatment. These have a place in the low-end market, but very few people who know sapphires would describe this as a "standard" for the industry. It may be that this gemstone buyer has never seen an attractive natural sapphire, or maybe he has being seeing too many unicorns.