General watch info for people who want more info on horology

[canuk-gal]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Are these GIA or EGL grades?

The great triumvirate used to be the 2 Swiss watchmakers Patek Phillippe and Vatcheron Constantin (forgetting for a minute about their earlier history) in the early 20th century combined with the Valle de Jour watchmaker Audemars Piquet). 4th, or honorary mention, traditionally went to JaegerLeCoulture, a Valle de Jour company, unrivaled in movements, made movements, which were then refinished by PP, VC, and AP, all, along with having many technical achievements, flattest pocket watch (when Americans were making huge chunks of metal and calling them irons), smalled mechanical movement, etc. Ironically, two of the best four come from the Valle de Jour, which is to say nothing about the fact that many believe the greatest living watchmaker is Philippe Dufour, a Valle de Jour watchmaker. All of these companies (Dufour excluded), without exception, have become so corporate, evaluate each piece, and watch your wallet. Yeah, there needs to be a GIA saying what's what. A lot of people are getting ripped off big time.

Thanks for this. Where would DuFour's watches "rank"? I think they are very exclusive, intricate, and costly, no? And what of FP Journe?

cheers--Sharon

 

[Imdanny]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Well, it's a matter of opinion. Both of the names you mention belong to a prestigious academy of independent watchmakers.

The one you mention has an impeccable reputation, to be sure.

However, IMO, Phillipe Dufour is the best watchmaker living.

One day, when I figure out how to post pictures better, I'll post some of his pieces. They're breathtaking.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

[quote="ksinger|1296250830|

"Mass-produced" is a bit misleading. JUST because it's in-house made, doesn't mean it keeps better time. ETAs are the basis of so many really cool watches, I have a hard time thinking ill of them just because they are the basis for quite a few. Besides, then the rest of us can have neato decorated mechanical watches. On the downside for them though, didn't ETA get all pissy recently (2010?), and stop selling ebauches?

I still want a RGM...[/quote]

any $10 quartz watch will keep better time then a $50K mechanical watch...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Are these GIA or EGL grades?

The great triumvirate used to be the 2 Swiss watchmakers Patek Phillippe and Vatcheron Constantin (forgetting for a minute about their earlier history) in the early 20th century combined with the Valle de Jour watchmaker Audemars Piquet). 4th, or honorary mention, traditionally went to JaegerLeCoulture, a Valle de Jour company, unrivaled in movements, made movements, which were then refinished by PP, VC, and AP, all, along with having many technical achievements, flattest pocket watch (when Americans were making huge chunks of metal and calling them irons), smalled mechanical movement, etc. Ironically, two of the best four come from the Valle de Jour, which is to say nothing about the fact that many believe the greatest living watchmaker is Philippe Dufour, a Valle de Jour watchmaker. All of these companies (Dufour excluded), without exception, have become so corporate, evaluate each piece, and watch your wallet. Yeah, there needs to be a GIA saying what's what. A lot of people are getting ripped off big time.

Thanks for this. Where would DuFour's watches "rank"? I think they are very exclusive, intricate, and costly, no? And what of FP Journe?

cheers--Sharon

Sharon...
the top... ... the way it works when a customer puts in an order with Dufour (a one man show) 1/3 of the money down,plus a 6 yr waiting period. every watch is put together by the man himself.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

I don't know *anything* about watches at all, besides recognising four or five of those names!

I imagine the watch world is just as complex as the diamond world, but can anyone simplify it to the 4Cs for me? What do you look for, what makes a watch a tier1 vs a tier2 (besides maker reputation, which I guess is a big part of it?)?

Yssie,let me try to explain it this way. i own a 18k yg Rolex day/date and a 18K PG Lange 1.they're two different type of watches.

the Rolex is built like a tank.you can drop it on a hard floor,run it over with a truck then go diving in the ocean and it will keep on ticking.now,on the other hand the Lange will not be able to take that kind of abuse,but the detailed finish on the Lange's movement compared to the Rolex its like day and night.

 

[yssie]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

I don't know *anything* about watches at all, besides recognising four or five of those names!

I imagine the watch world is just as complex as the diamond world, but can anyone simplify it to the 4Cs for me? What do you look for, what makes a watch a tier1 vs a tier2 (besides maker reputation, which I guess is a big part of it?)?

Yssie,let me try to explain it this way. i own a 18k yg Rolex day/date and a 18K PG Lange 1.they're two different type of watches.

the Rolex is built like a tank.you can drop it on a hard floor,run it over with a truck then go diving in the ocean and it will keep on ticking.now,on the other hand the Lange will not be able to take that kind of abuse,but the detailed finish on the Lange's movement compared to the Rolex its like day and night.

Hmm - that makes sense. Each has a different type of visual - and practical - appeal, and each has pros and cons.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

I don't know *anything* about watches at all, besides recognising four or five of those names!

I imagine the watch world is just as complex as the diamond world, but can anyone simplify it to the 4Cs for me? What do you look for, what makes a watch a tier1 vs a tier2 (besides maker reputation, which I guess is a big part of it?)?

Yssie,let me try to explain it this way. i own a 18k yg Rolex day/date and a 18K PG Lange 1.they're two different type of watches.

the Rolex is built like a tank.you can drop it on a hard floor,run it over with a truck then go diving in the ocean and it will keep on ticking.now,on the other hand the Lange will not be able to take that kind of abuse,but the detailed finish on the Lange's movement compared to the Rolex its like day and night.

Hmm - that makes sense. Each has a different type of visual - and practical - appeal, and each has pros and cons.

each Rubies on Lange watches are set into an 18K gold setting. the blue screws are heat treated (not painted) to blue color. remember...every little tiny part is detailed,more functions,more parts,more complicated = more $$$

 

[CUSO]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Are these GIA or EGL grades?

The great triumvirate used to be the 2 Swiss watchmakers Patek Phillippe and Vatcheron Constantin (forgetting for a minute about their earlier history) in the early 20th century combined with the Valle de Jour watchmaker Audemars Piquet). 4th, or honorary mention, traditionally went to JaegerLeCoulture, a Valle de Jour company, unrivaled in movements, made movements, which were then refinished by PP, VC, and AP, all, along with having many technical achievements, flattest pocket watch (when Americans were making huge chunks of metal and calling them irons), smalled mechanical movement, etc. Ironically, two of the best four come from the Valle de Jour, which is to say nothing about the fact that many believe the greatest living watchmaker is Philippe Dufour, a Valle de Jour watchmaker. All of these companies (Dufour excluded), without exception, have become so corporate, evaluate each piece, and watch your wallet. Yeah, there needs to be a GIA saying what's what. A lot of people are getting ripped off big time.

Thanks for this. Where would DuFour's watches "rank"? I think they are very exclusive, intricate, and costly, no? And what of FP Journe?

cheers--Sharon

Sharon...
the top... ... the way it works when a customer puts in an order with Dufour (a one man show) 1/3 of the money down,plus a 6 yr waiting period. every watch is put together by the man himself.

DF I respectfully disagree. I have for the last 6 months been trying to buy a Dufour. I began with emailing him inqueries, and after 9 emails I got 1 response form Mrs. Dufour stating he has sold out of most watches for the year. I then sent many, many emails begging to allow me to send a significant deposit on a watch in 2011, 2012, or 2013 and no response at all. Do you have any suggestion, I have called the shop 3 times and no answer. If you know something please let me know.

 

[CUSO]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

I don't know *anything* about watches at all, besides recognising four or five of those names!

I imagine the watch world is just as complex as the diamond world, but can anyone simplify it to the 4Cs for me? What do you look for, what makes a watch a tier1 vs a tier2 (besides maker reputation, which I guess is a big part of it?)?

Yssie,let me try to explain it this way. i own a 18k yg Rolex day/date and a 18K PG Lange 1.they're two different type of watches.

the Rolex is built like a tank.you can drop it on a hard floor,run it over with a truck then go diving in the ocean and it will keep on ticking.now,on the other hand the Lange will not be able to take that kind of abuse,but the detailed finish on the Lange's movement compared to the Rolex its like day and night.

DF, when I bought my Panerai, I went there specifically intending to buy the Grand Lange 1. But my sales person explaind that it was not the watch to purchase if I rough house a little and intend to wear every day. I saw the common sense (because I specifically was looking for an everyday watch) and went Panerai.

 

[yssie]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

I don't know *anything* about watches at all, besides recognising four or five of those names!

I imagine the watch world is just as complex as the diamond world, but can anyone simplify it to the 4Cs for me? What do you look for, what makes a watch a tier1 vs a tier2 (besides maker reputation, which I guess is a big part of it?)?

Yssie,let me try to explain it this way. i own a 18k yg Rolex day/date and a 18K PG Lange 1.they're two different type of watches.

the Rolex is built like a tank.you can drop it on a hard floor,run it over with a truck then go diving in the ocean and it will keep on ticking.now,on the other hand the Lange will not be able to take that kind of abuse,but the detailed finish on the Lange's movement compared to the Rolex its like day and night.

Hmm - that makes sense. Each has a different type of visual - and practical - appeal, and each has pros and cons.

each Rubies on Lange watches are set into an 18K gold setting. the blue screws are heat treated (not painted) to blue color. remember...every little tiny part is detailed,more functions,more parts,more complicated = more $$$

Oh my, that is lovely!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

[quote="CUSO|[/quote]


DF I respectfully disagree. I have for the last 6 months been trying to buy a Dufour. I began with emailing him inqueries, and after 9 emails I got 1 response form Mrs. Dufour stating he has sold out of most watches for the year. I then sent many, many emails begging to allow me to send a significant deposit on a watch in 2011, 2012, or 2013 and no response at all. Do you have any suggestion, I have called the shop 3 times and no answer. If you know something please let me know.[/quote]

CUSO...i don't know,maybe he received more orders then he can handle for the next few yrs?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

[quote="Lula|1296249571|

Yes, that's true! Sorry about that. I like the value that can be found in pre-owned, and I like owning something that is unique in styling. I also like knowing that the movements in the watches I buy are not ETA ! With so many of the current watch brands -- even the expensive ones -- it's hard to know for sure what the company is producing in-house and what they are buying mass-produced from Swatch, unless you do a fair amount of research. Even brands like Tiffany and Cartier use mass-produced movements. It really pays to educate yourself before you put down $$$ for a watch.[/quote]

Lula
there're hundreds of different watch brands,but only a hand full produce their own movements in-house. in other words....not many that we can call "true manufacture" of watches.

off the top of my head these are the watch Companies that use 100% in-house movements in all of their models.

Rolex...since they started using their own movement in the Daytona model a few yrs ago.

Patek Philippe... since they started using their own movement in chrono watches a few yrs ago.

JLC
Lange
Glashutte Original
Zenith

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Are these GIA or EGL grades?

The great triumvirate used to be the 2 Swiss watchmakers Patek Phillippe and Vatcheron Constantin (forgetting for a minute about their earlier history) in the early 20th century combined with the Valle de Jour watchmaker Audemars Piquet). 4th, or honorary mention, traditionally went to JaegerLeCoulture, a Valle de Jour company, unrivaled in movements, made movements, which were then refinished by PP, VC, and AP, all, along with having many technical achievements, flattest pocket watch (when Americans were making huge chunks of metal and calling them irons), smalled mechanical movement, etc. Ironically, two of the best four come from the Valle de Jour, which is to say nothing about the fact that many believe the greatest living watchmaker is Philippe Dufour, a Valle de Jour watchmaker. All of these companies (Dufour excluded), without exception, have become so corporate, evaluate each piece, and watch your wallet. Yeah, there needs to be a GIA saying what's what. A lot of people are getting ripped off big time.

Thanks for this. Where would DuFour's watches "rank"? I think they are very exclusive, intricate, and costly, no? And what of FP Journe?

cheers--Sharon

Sharon...
the top... ... the way it works when a customer puts in an order with Dufour (a one man show) 1/3 of the money down,plus a 6 yr waiting period. every watch is put together by the man himself.

Interesting. Are they the price of a Birkin bag with diamonds?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Sharon...i think DuFour's least expensive model starts at about $45K,but yet his time pieces aren't anywhere near the world's most expensive.

http://www.luxury-insider.com/Regulars/Reviews_and_Commentary/Dufour_Simplicity/page2.aspx

 

[CUSO]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Sharon...i think DuFour's least expensive model starts at about $45K,but yet his time pieces aren't anywhere near the world's most expensive.

http://www.luxury-insider.com/Regulars/Reviews_and_Commentary/Dufour_Simplicity/page2.aspx

What makes it worse, is that $45k watch purchased directly from Dufour would sell for $300k-400k on the second hand market. They come up so incredibly infrequently. People hold them and almost never sell. And now I am finding how difficult it is to buy directly from Dufour. I dont mind paying his price, in fact i would pay sight unseen full price for a watch today that would not be delivered till 2015 if I could. He is in one of those rare situations where he decides who he will sell to.
DF if you have even heard of a way I could buy one from him, please let me know

 

[Imdanny]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

DF, I spoke to him once on the internet. He posted from Switzerland of course and since I live in Hawaii it turned out that I was the only one there. He posted a link that didn't go anywhere, and I replied, "Mr. Dufour, sir, I've broken the internet!" ROTFL! My fellow forum friends were so jealous. Hahaha!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

DF, I spoke to him once on the internet. He posted from Switzerland of course and since I live in Hawaii it turned out that I was the only one there. He posted a link that didn't go anywhere, and I replied, "Mr. Dufour, sir, I've broken the internet!" ROTFL! My fellow forum friends were so jealous. Hahaha!

 

[risingsun]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

Good post Cuso - I love diamonds but I love watches also - more particularly men's watches especially on my DH.

Here is a link that explains in detail why certain watches are placed in different levels. Hope it helps.
Enjoy

http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

Thanks for the link. It was very helpful

 

[Imdanny]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

[quote="Lula|1296249571|

Yes, that's true! Sorry about that. I like the value that can be found in pre-owned, and I like owning something that is unique in styling. I also like knowing that the movements in the watches I buy are not ETA ! With so many of the current watch brands -- even the expensive ones -- it's hard to know for sure what the company is producing in-house and what they are buying mass-produced from Swatch, unless you do a fair amount of research. Even brands like Tiffany and Cartier use mass-produced movements. It really pays to educate yourself before you put down $$$ for a watch.

Lula
there're hundreds of different watch brands,but only a hand full produce their own movements in-house. in other words....not many that we can call "true manufacture" of watches.

off the top of my head these are the watch Companies that use 100% in-house movements in all of their models.

Rolex...since they started using their own movement in the Daytona model a few yrs ago.

Patek Philippe... since they started using their own movement in chrono watches a few yrs ago.

JLC
Lange
Glashutte Original
Zenith[/quote]

And let's add Girard-Perregaux.

 

[fredgettings]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

That's pretty much identical to how FI would tier watches too

 

[Neil Jack]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

I became enthralled myself.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

HI:

If anyone is still reading this thread--quick question. I am thinking of another watch--leather strap. Can't afford a Lange, so forget about suggesting it DF!

I like many of the Rolex (Cellini) , but saw an IWC that caught my eye. Both models were large/men's. Don't know the exact names of the collections. Based on "brand" which would you choose? Rolex are mechanical and 18K y/g. IWC had a date (kinda important to me)and the Cellini's do not.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

HI:

If anyone is still reading this thread--quick question. I am thinking of another watch--leather strap. Can't afford a Lange, so forget about suggesting it DF!

I like many of the Rolex (Cellini) , but saw an IWC that caught my eye. Both models were large/men's. Don't know the exact names of the collections. Based on "brand" which would you choose? Rolex are mechanical and 18K y/g. IWC had a date (kinda important to me)and the Cellini's do not.

cheers--Sharon

Sharon
why a Cellini? the movements in their oyster case are much better. you already own a 2 tone DJ ,right?

b/t the two choices i'd pick the IWC.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

HI:

If anyone is still reading this thread--quick question. I am thinking of another watch--leather strap. Can't afford a Lange, so forget about suggesting it DF!

I like many of the Rolex (Cellini) , but saw an IWC that caught my eye. Both models were large/men's. Don't know the exact names of the collections. Based on "brand" which would you choose? Rolex are mechanical and 18K y/g. IWC had a date (kinda important to me)and the Cellini's do not.

cheers--Sharon

Sharon
why a Cellini? the movements in their oyster case are much better. you already own a 2 tone DJ ,right?

b/t the two choices i'd pick the IWC.

HI DF:

I like the styles--big faces/nice dials. Want a leather strap. I like Rolex but must admit I know nothing about the movements in the Cellini. Drawback is they have no dates. For reference I have an all stainless DJ and it is fabu.

I liked the IWC but it was a bigger watch--compared to the Cellini. More $$ too. Are they in house produced movements??

cheers--Sharon

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: General watch info for people who want more info on horo

HI:

If anyone is still reading this thread--quick question. I am thinking of another watch--leather strap. Can't afford a Lange, so forget about suggesting it DF!

I like many of the Rolex (Cellini) , but saw an IWC that caught my eye. Both models were large/men's. Don't know the exact names of the collections. Based on "brand" which would you choose? Rolex are mechanical and 18K y/g. IWC had a date (kinda important to me)and the Cellini's do not.

cheers--Sharon

Sharon
why a Cellini? the movements in their oyster case are much better. you already own a 2 tone DJ ,right?

b/t the two choices i'd pick the IWC.

HI DF:

I like the styles--big faces/nice dials. Want a leather strap. I like Rolex but must admit I know nothing about the movements in the Cellini. Drawback is they have no dates. For reference I have an all stainless DJ and it is fabu.

I liked the IWC but it was a bigger watch--compared to the Cellini. More $$ too. Are they in house produced movements??
cheers--Sharon

some are in house movements but i don't know enough about IWC to comment.