Gemological Institute Services - Any Credibility??

[GetSlideways]

The forum search feature did not yield any results when I searched for GIS (which is not a good sign lol), but I am also new to this forum's layout so perhaps I am using it incorrectly.

Is G.I.S. (Gemological Institute Services) certification worth anything more than the paper its printed on? The website leaves alot to be desired and resembles something I could whip up in under 20 minutes.

Cliff Notes:

-Was looking at a clarity enhanced ring from a private local seller.
----1.45ct main stone 1.87tcwt D/VS2 asking $3700
-Only certification was G.I.S. (likely due to being clarity enhanced)
-Not looking to purchase for resale or investment

Questions:

MAIN: Is G.I.S. (Gemological Institute Services) certification worth anything more than the paper its printed on?

1. Will a local appraisal be able to give me any insight on potential value of Clarity Enhanced? (want to have it checked out before any potential purchase)

2. Other than personal feeling about Clarity enhancement, or future resale concerns (which hopefully I will not need to deal with haha) are their any long term concerns with clarity enhancement (apart from heat and acid concerns)

3. Does the price seem reasonable given the information provided?

 

[ChristineRose]

There are at least two kinds of CE: fracture filling and laser drilling. Filled stones typically have no gem value. They might have usage value just as a nice piece of costume jewelry has more value than a cheap plastic piece, but the diamonds are not worth much. Once the glass filling is removed, they are just a low quality diamond that would otherwise have been considered too ugly for jewelry.

It's very hard to judge the value of the stone based on what you've said. Good sims are very hard to tell from a diamond, but you're paying a lot more for a CE diamond, and the resale value of the diamond is almost nothing. However if you feel having a real diamond is important and you're not planning to sell it, then it is worth what you are willing to pay for it.

A good appraiser will tell you what grade it really is, and especially what the clarity really is. Enhanced stones are graded as what they are without the filling, and no well known lab would call a filled stone a VS 2.

GIS is an unknown property. There are small labs that issue honest grading and people use them for various reasons, but no one honest uses a small lab to grade a large quantity of generic stones for general sales. Given all that, I would not trust that your stone is actually a D, let alone a D/VS2.

I would not recommend buying a stone from a reseller. The best CE stones have a warranty where they will fix the fracture filling if it falls out. Also, there are new CE rings on E-bay which look to be about comparable to yours for about $4,200. Generally reselling a ring like that might net you 10% to 40% of the original price.

 

[solgen]

The GIS certs I've seen aren't worth the paper they are written on. I wouldn't touch those diamonds. If budget is a primary concern and you really want a 1.4ct stone for under $4k then perhaps look at EGL certed stones. The entire ring being $3700 and with the specs listed. Well, I can't imagine it being a very well cut or pretty diamond ring at that price.

 

[MollyMalone]

Here's an informative article on clarity enhanced diamonds from Jonathan Weingarten of Good Old Gold, a PS sponsor (he also participates here on the forum as "Rhino"). Although CE diamonds are not why he & GOG have such a good reputation in the PS community, GOG does sell some.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/clarityenhanceddiamonds.html

Does the GIS report indicate that the stone has been clarity enhanced only? The couple of GIS reports I retrieved from eBay listings have this:
Color-clarity enhanced: Yes
So it's not clear whether the stones were color enhanced, clarity enhanced or both. And the GIS report gives no clue re the method of clarity enhancement.

But since the report makes no mention of a Yehuda number inscribed on the girdle, think it's safe to assume the diamond was not enhanced by Yehuda, the pioneer in clarity enhancement & the company that offers a lifetime guarantee, I.e., will refill the feather(s) if that ever becomes necessary. (Yehuda laser drills some diamonds, but that's something that never should have to be repeated)

 

[MollyMalone]

Enhanced stones are graded as what they are without the filling, and no well known lab would call a filled stone a VS2.

Think even better known labs report the enhanced clarity grade -- with the notation that the stone has been filled and/or laser drilled.

 

[ChristineRose]

Enhanced stones are graded as what they are without the filling, and no well known lab would call a filled stone a VS2.

Think even better known labs report the enhanced clarity grade -- with the notation that the stone has been filled and/or laser drilled.

It appears you are right! GIA will not touch enhanced stones though because they can't determine the "real" clarity. The price of the stone should always be compared to stones of the "real" clarity which is all but impossible in this case.

 

[MollyMalone]

GIA will not touch enhanced stones though because they can't determine the "real" clarity. The price of the stone should always be compared to stones of the "real" clarity which is all but impossible in this case.

GIA returns, without grading, stones it has ascertained have any filled feathers. GIA does grade stones whose clarity has been enhanced via laser drilling (and the attendant bleaching) of dark inclusions; that has proven to be a permanently stable treatment that does not require any special care.

Again, even GIA will assign a clarity grade based on the treated appearance, not the stone's initial or "real" clarity, because it's the improved appearance that sets the price -- albeit at a notable discount from a comparable stone that has not been clarity treated. I don't know what kind of discount range one should expect to see reflected nowadays; perhaps Trade members will shed light on this. I can say that my late father-in-law, who was a diamond broker here in NYC, was of the opinion that consumers considering the purchase of a feather-filled diamond should buy only a Yehuda one, even if priced higher than a filled diamond from elsewhere. And based on the GOG article I linked previously, it seems Yehudas are the only filled diamonds GOG sells.

 

[WinkHPD]

As an aside, EGL has been completely discredited recently and I would not consider buying any of their diamonds without getting a new report from a reputable laboratory.

In the trade market, clarity enhanced diamonds have no real resale market. Laser drilled diamonds are salable, but there just is not a market to speak of between dealers of the filled diamonds. You need to keep that in mind if you wish to buy one. You own it now and you will most likely own it forever. If you need to sell it, for any reason, you will be getting pennies on the dollar.

Wink

 

[everstone]

GIS has absolutely no credibility. They are made-up certificates commonly found at mall jewelry stores. There is hardly any information about them online. I'd put GIS below IGI or EGL.

Stick with GIA or AGS. GIA triple excellent or AGS0 is a great starting place.

 

[WinkHPD]

GIS has absolutely no credibility. They are made-up certificates commonly found at mall jewelry stores. There is hardly any information about them online. I'd put GIS below IGI or EGL.

Stick with GIA or AGS. GIA triple excellent or AGS0 is a great starting place.

Here is a great statement. Reports from both labs are a great starting place. The finishing place depends on what the buyer is truly looking for. To get the best symbol of your love and devotion will require more than just a report. It will require research and understanding.

The result will make it worth the effort.

Wink

 

[GetSlideways]

I really appreciate all of the input on the subject, as well as for the links that have allowed me to do further research.

The more and more I read about GIS, the less and less concrete it feels. It seems like anyone with a color printer and a lamination machine can pop out one of their certificates, and they may better serve as place mats rather than meaningful geological evaluation.

I do think CE diamonds have their place. Sort of like a replica AC Cobra has a place in this world vs an original at 100xs the cost. One you can enjoy, and the other would leave you paranoid and anxious to take into the real world haha

For this particular ring in question, the information just doesn't feel like it supports the asking price or offers any mental security. I am now leaning muuuuch further away from the CE options.

 

[ChristineRose]

A serious problem with CE diamonds is that most of the people who sell them are crooks. Jewelers generally don't want anything to do with them because if they show you two diamonds like look identical but differ in price by thousands of dollars, they're competing with themselves. And if you don't go into it with full knowledge of what you're getting, you're going to be unhappy at some point.

If you want one, start with the Yehuda website.