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GE POL treated stones

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kizor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Messages
41
"hopefully you will agree that testing for strain is important (regardless of the durability issue) because treated stones (e.g., GE POL treated stones) are known to show unusual strain. hopefully you will state clearly on your website that you do not sell treated stones even though your prices are much lower than market."

I must say...as a person looking to buy a diamond in the near future...posts such as this one frighten me. Is it possible to purchase a diamond that has been treated and not know it? What exactly is this person referring to in this nasty thred?
 

DiamondExpert

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Messages
1,245
It would be all too easy for me to suggest that you just ignore this person, but some explaination is required.

This individual, whom I don't know, has been on an apparent crusade to discredit and damage the SuperbCert brand of diamond and the company run by Barry Gutwein in this public forum (as you no doubt have seen). Why, I can't answer. This appears to me to be an irrational attack suggesting fraud and deception, relentlessly applied in an apparent attempt to do damage to this business.

Unfortunately, these diatribes also indirectly do damage to those others of us who work with Barry in vending the SuperbCert brand as part of our own businesses. However, I can assure you, as one who has worked with this product since it came on the market, that I, and I'm sure all the other SuperbCert vendors, stand behind both Barry and the brand 100%.

The comments this person makes about GE POL diamonds and strain also appear to try to cast aspersions on the company...keep in mind that this individual is NOT, so that one can notice from his previous contributions, knowledgeable about diamonds.

------------------------------------------
The GE POL diamonds are those brown type 11a (quite rare @~1% all gem diamonds) stones treated with high pres. & temp. (HPHT) to improve color...see http://www.gia.edu/gemsandgemology/1423/1840/524/issuersquos_table_of_contents_article_detail__this_page_is_only_a_place_holder_please_contact_it_department_for_content_changes.cfm for an excerpt.

There is a market for them and they are required to be properly marked and disclosed by sellers. There is, of course, some reported abuse of this - the level unknown.

Virtually all brown type IIa diamonds show strain patterns (anomalous birefringence) when viewed through crossed polarizers, and the HPHT treatment does little to alter these patterns. Treatment can be detected in many cases by observing other features.

Oh, a large % of common gem diamonds, types 1aA & 1aB, also show strain patterns, and the argument rages as to whether or not it is important to know this for durability (read that "purchasing") issues. It is agreed that knowledge of strain in the rough crystal is important info for cutting, with the attendant heat, pressure and vibration, but is it important for the dealers/retailers/consumers who deal with the polished diamond?

Consider this - diamonds range in age from several 100M to 3Billion years in age!, and they have lived with whatever strain they have that long without "popping".

Strain patterns are associated with crystal lattice distortions caused by all types of things - inclusions, cleavages, twinning, etc. It ain't hard to find, but is it important?...no scientific evidence I am aware of has unambiguously fingered strain as being a predictor of polished diamond breakage...please correct me if any of you are aware of this info.

Should you have your diamond checked for strain prior to purchase? That's your call, but ask yourself - why am I doing this?

Should you balk at the purchase of a beautiful stone on the basis of a strain pattern?... Again, it's your call, but personally, I wouldn't. Why shoot yourself in the foot, when you are going to insure the stone anyway...you WERE going insure it weren't you???


 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
----------------
On 6/6/2003 2:14:57 PM kizor wrote:

"hopefully you will agree that testing for strain is important (regardless of the durability issue) because treated stones (e.g., GE POL treated stones) are known to show unusual strain. hopefully you will state clearly on your website that you do not sell treated stones even though your prices are much lower than market."

I must say...as a person looking to buy a diamond in the near future...posts such as this one frighten me. Is it possible to purchase a diamond that has been treated and not know it? What exactly is this person referring to in this nasty thred?

----------------
Kizor I am glad you asked this question. I would have responded earlier if I saw that you quoted me. Look at the link below for an article about GE POL treated stones. It is rather technical, but if you do a keyword search, it will take you right to the paragraph where it says that GE POL treated stones show peculiar strain and that these types of stones fool even the professionals.

http://www.precious-stonelab.co.uk/GE%20POL.htm

I have addressed this issue in a previous post but the so called experts here associated with Superbcert did not respond. See the link below.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-research-says-treated-diamonds-show-unusual-strain.6871/

Lastly, look at Diamond Expert's website. He is a reseller of Superbcert's stones. Obviously he has an interest in protecting Superbcert and attacking anyone who questions Superbcert's stones and its business practices. I was in your shoes when I first got to this forum but have since learned a lot. I can only put up the red flags but it will be up to you to decided if you want to see it.
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Harry,


Wait a second,

GEPOL stones have "GE POL" inscribed on the girdle. All os them. Now if there's
a stone treated out there by this company (GE) not wearing this inscription is because
it was rubbed off and replaced by another one then sold. If as a vendor you do this,
you can go in jail and loose your business at the same time. No, I don't know anybody
who'll do this to save a couple of $$$. However, if you're telling that SuperbCert
or any company is doing this, YOU can be sued for diffamation. I can understand
that you have your own problems with this company...but please...stop it.

Trichrome.
 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
Kizor asked a question about GE POL stones and I am giving him information on GE POL stones just like anyone else can. I can point out the unanswered, fishy aspects of Superbcert's policies and people can decide for themselves as to why.

Regardless, this issue can be cleared up in a second if Superbcert will state clearly in its policies that it does not sell treated stones. other vendors do so. this way, consumers can at least be asssured that if a treated stone slipped by the vendor's screen (honestly or dishonestly), the consumer can still get his money back.
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Harry,

if I remember well, stones sold by SuperbCert are GIA or AGS certs...these 2 labs
won't cert an HPHT stone. So why bother?
I'm pretty sure if you ask the owner of this company before your purchase,
he'll tell you that the stone is 100% natural. I mean, the customer should not be stupid,
he should ask questions too and not only rely on what's written on a website.

Trichrome.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
Lastly, look at Diamond Expert's website. He is a reseller of Superbcert's stones. Obviously he
has an interest in protecting Superbcert and attacking anyone who questions Superbcert's stones and
its business practices.
-----------
I can point out the unanswered, fishy aspects of Superbcert's policies and people can decide for
themselves as to why.
-----------

I'm an independant appraiser with no interest in "protecting SuperbCert" other than that of common decency. And you sir, have been indecent in your unwarranted and relentless persecution of SuperbCert for "imagined" offenses which have no basis in fact. I can't believe all the inuendos you have thrown around about a company which aroused your ire simply because they decline to send stones to an appraiser they have a disagreement with, and then declined to get involved in an acrimonious thread you started.

I find your statements libelous, and if I were the target, I would nail your ass to the wall with them. It would certainly be easy enough to do. You are making blatantly unfounded and highly libelous statements in front of a worldwide audience that could result in a negative impact on a company's business. I was subpoeaned once at the trial of someone who did the exact same thing in exactly the same manner using the exact same medium, and had been consequently sued by the offended company.

He lost.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
Leonid, this brings up an excellent point.

You have done an excellent job of "policing" vendors and making sure they don't stray past the line in several areas of internet etiquette.

What about consumers? This guy Harry is dangerously out-of-line. If ever there was a case for "expulsion", he has made it several times over.

If votes count, I throw mine in publicly for his ouster.
 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
calling me an "ass" and threatening me? is this a violation of the rule on this board?

trichome: yes, you are correct in that GIA and AGS will not certify treated stones. if you read the article though and search for other articles, you will see that this is something very difficult to detect and it often fools even the professionals.

richard: i have no quarrels with you so i'm a bit surprised by your threatening and name calling response. it is very unlike your other posts on this thread. name calling is not an argument though. perhaps you can jump in here and offer your professional advice on how to distinguish between a treated and natural stone if the seller won't make a statement saying that the stones are natural. also, have you noticed that you are the quickest and strongest defender of superbcert, not only on this post but on other posts? let me ask a couple of factual question to gauge your independence then. how many stones have you rejected from superbcert in say the past 2 years? if superbcert "banned" you like it did to Bill Lieberum at Consumer Gem Lab, would it have a material affect on your business? again, i have no quarrels with you, but this is my response to your "first strike."
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Harry,

I highly respect the opinion of Richard. From all his previous posts, he has shown many times
that he is fully independant. However, if I were you, I would stop right away
posting to this board. If you have noticed, the owner of SuperbCert
is answering a couple of threads but not the ones where you have posted.
So you know that he read your posts. And I agree with Richard : there's enough
stuff in your posts to sue you.

Trichrome.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Very well said Rich!
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Harry, I understand you are not happy about your experience with Superbcert but I have to agree with Richard.

I would rather be on your (or any consumer) side but in this case I ask you to be fair. Gary (DiamondExpert) always has been very correct here and helped with his knowledge. We never heard any negative feedbacks about him.

.

Otherwise, your posts create inflammatory atmosphere and sound unfair.


I ask you kindly to be more considering in the future...[/u][/u][/u]
 

canadianice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
82
Bravo, Rich!

And Harry - Richard did not call you an "ass", nor did he "threaten" you.

He said, if he had been the target of your posts -- in which you try to cast aspersions upon somebody's business, brand name, and reputation -- he "would nail your ass to the wall". Think of it as simply doing business.

I kindly offer the observation that -- perhaps-- when you read that comment, you inferred that you are, indeed, an "ass".

Who knew?

Please, lighten up and try to make this experience as educational and enjoyable as possible for the rest of us.

The tone and tenor of your posts are unbecoming for a public forum.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

----------------
On 6/7/2003 7:18:31 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:
I'm an independant appraiser with no interest in "protecting SuperbCert" other than that of common decency. And you sir, have been indecent in your unwarranted and relentless persecution of SuperbCert for "imagined" offenses which have no basis in fact. I can't believe all the inuendos you have thrown around about a company which aroused your ire simply because they decline to send stones to an appraiser they have a disagreement with, and then declined to get involved in an acrimonious thread you started.

I find your statements libelous, and if I were the target, I would nail your ass to the wall with them. It would certainly be easy enough to do. You are making blatantly unfounded and highly libelous statements in front of a worldwide audience that could result in a negative impact on a company's business. I was subpoeaned once at the trial of someone who did the exact same thing in exactly the same manner using the exact same medium, and had been consequently sued by the offended company.

He lost.

----------------
Richard: EXCELLENT response.....and very much appreciated.

Leonid: I applaud your effort to appeal to Harry asking him to be fair......but that appeal has been made several times by several posters to no avail. By my count, more than a dozen posters have taken exception to the slanderous nature of Harry's posts.....isn't that enough to finally draw the line of this one? We get it already.....Harry vehemently hates Superbcert. Fine. But we're sick of the ax-grinding at every opportunity. It's enough.
 
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