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Full Cut vs. Single Cut

minousbijoux

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Greetings good people of Diamonds; I am from neighboring Colored Stones and bow down to your diamond knowledge. I know I can ask this question over there, but I thought I'd go to the source for the real expert info.

Here is my question: for some time, I have been under the impression that full cut diamonds are better than single cut diamonds because 1) people prefer them; and 2) they cost more. I recently ordered some mounts with diamonds, had a choice between single and full cut, and ordered the full cut because that's what everyone else seems to do (over in CS). Upon receiving them, I noticed that they have much less sparkle than I was hoping for in diamond melee. In another thread recently, someone mentioned that single cut melee are typically more sparkly than full cut melee, which has me wondering why would someone pay extra for less sparkly diamonds? What am I missing here?

Please good people of diamond land, solve my riddle so that I can once again can live happily in the land of Colored Stones...
 

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antelope1

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<bump>

Also, someone point me to a thread that shows the differences between full cut and single cut!

TIA!
 

yssie

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in very small sizes (melee) full cuts w/ their teeny tiny facets (and therefore teeny tiny virtual facets) produce so many teeny tiny sparkles that the human eye is unable to resolve them - single cuts shine here because the eye can distinguish and appreciate the fewer but larger, bolder outputs

refraction is more likely to result in successful dispersion (I define successful as colour visible to the eye) when there are fewer dispersing rays proximal to each other, so output wavelengths won't combine - fewer facets with larger angles between them will facilitate this

fullcut.gif

singlecut.gif
 

Rockdiamond

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Single cuts have a more simple facet style- A table, and 8 crown facets, and 8 pavilion facets. Also referred to as 8/8
Modern round brilliants ( full cuts) actually are all single cuts at one point in the cutting phase- then the additional facets are added.

Single cuts can be very beautiful yet it's more common that full cuts have more sparkle ( in general)
Nowadays single cuts are harder to find. For that reason, my experience of late is that single cuts are generally more expensive - but for the rarity reason only. I'm kind of surprised you were offered a choice- not many manufacturers are using single cuts nowadays.

How are the melee set in your ring- and what quality were they sold to you as?

eta- great diagram yssie!! ( we were posting at the same time)
 

antelope1

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Thanks Yssie and RD. I feel educated now!

I have full cut on my ER melee and I swear one of those diamonds is markedly duller than the rest. Upon examination under a microscope -- it has a much bigger table than the other stones. :nono:

Could the light performance of full-cut melee be affected in the same way as that of larger diamonds? That is, table %, depth %, crown angles, etc all matter? But tinier.

All of a sudden, I have images of tinkerbell cutting melee... :-o
 

yssie

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David - I was talking to my jeweller, he's of the opinion that single cuts are pricey because people are willing to pay premiums for them in watches - what do you think?
 

minousbijoux

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Gotta say I am totally confused now, as it appears that we over in CS pay "extra" for full cut. I followed along, without really understanding the difference, but thinking that since people like sparkle, it would probably be commensurate with dollar cost - the more cost, the greater the sparkle. But I had a choice with LOGR and paid extra for full cut and they don't sparkle at all.

Tell me then, why would anyone want full cut?

Thanks.
 

Rockdiamond

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Yssie said:
David - I was talking to my jeweller, he's of the opinion that single cuts are pricey because people are willing to pay premiums for them in watches - what do you think?
From my perspective it's more that there are very few factories putting out single cuts nowadays- so they are more rare, and therefore more costly.

antelope1 said:
Thanks Yssie and RD. I feel educated now!

I have full cut on my ER melee and I swear one of those diamonds is markedly duller than the rest. Upon examination under a microscope -- it has a much bigger table than the other stones. :nono:

Could the light performance of full-cut melee be affected in the same way as that of larger diamonds? That is, table %, depth %, crown angles, etc all matter? But tinier.

All of a sudden, I have images of tinkerbell cutting melee... :-o
You're welcome antelope!
As in all diamonds, the cut will certainly affect the brilliance and sparkle.
If you read a lot of my posts, you'll see that although I love smaller tables on rounds- I prefer a combination that includes 60% table- which is generally larger than you'll find on "ideal" cut diamonds.
One reason is that in some ways, the larger table gives back a different sort of brilliance.
Many small stones are cut this way- I believe because this type of brilliance works very well in pave, and other types of settings used for small diamonds ( melee)
From the sound of oit, there's a stone in your ring with a table that is too large- most likely larger than 60% ( but I'm guessing here as there's no way to say for sure without looking)

minousbijoux said:
Gotta say I am totally confused now, as it appears that we over in CS pay "extra" for full cut. I followed along, without really understanding the difference, but thinking that since people like sparkle, it would probably be commensurate with dollar cost - the more cost, the greater the sparkle. But I had a choice with LOGR and paid extra for full cut and they don't sparkle at all.

Tell me then, why would anyone want full cut?

Thanks.
Ummmm.. well cut full cuts have AMAZING sparkle, and are thought to look more ...modern (?)
For this reason they are generally the choice nowadays
 

yssie

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antelope - differences between differently sized melee, certainly! A 0.2ct has different considerations from a 2-pointer (and I do think that in the 1/2/3point sizes clarity is a bigger factor, as from what I've seen poorly machined melee also tends to be heavily included, the stones are too often chipped, etc)
As David said there's poorly cut and well cut melee, and having well-cut melee makes a difference in sparkle. And I think the factors that make a stone well-cut are the same regardless of size, *but* because the stones are so small we don't see the differences in performance that we would expect to see w/ different "nice" proportion combinations in larger stones - as in, w/ small melee, cut is black and white - "good" or "bad", no point in debating the nuances of a "good" small-table/high-crown/shallow-pav combo vs. a "good" 60/60 make..

minousbijoux - they're usually cheaper? :oops:
 

ericad

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There's beautiful and well cut melee and poorly cut melee lacking sparkle, in both types of cuts. We, for example, use single cuts as our default (full cuts are available upon request, though every piece we've made thus far has been with single cuts) because we've found a source of beautifully cut single cut melee and prefer them over full cuts in sizes under 2.5 points.

We love single cuts because the stronger flash of the fewer facets better compliments antique cut stones (chunky), and is more in keeping with antique jewelry. I've also had the opportunity to compare our Kylie halo (single cuts) alongside another HW style halo that used full cuts, and I was very impressed by the difference I could see with my eye (one type was not prettier than the other, both were beautiful, just different). But again, this comes back to personal preference - just like the differences between an OEC and an RB, one type of melee isn't inherently better than another, it's just a matter of what type of look you're after. The most important thing, either way, is to get well cut melee!
 

Karl_K

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Yssie|1289275369|2758922 said:
David - I was talking to my jeweller, he's of the opinion that single cuts are pricey because people are willing to pay premiums for them in watches - what do you think?
That is very true of the well cut ones.
The watch companies are willing to pay about a 50% premium per ct which drives the price up.
But on the flip side they have very strict cut standards for them so some very very beautiful single cuts continue to be cut.
There are other cutters cutting them not as consistent that sell for less than full cuts.
 

AdanaEsq

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So glad I found this topic. So if I wanted an antique cushion set in LM cold fusion, single cut melee would be better than full cut?
 

Cehrabehra

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Yssie|1289274982|2758914 said:
in very small sizes (melee) full cuts w/ their teeny tiny facets (and therefore teeny tiny virtual facets) produce so many teeny tiny sparkles that the human eye is unable to resolve them - single cuts shine here because the eye can distinguish and appreciate the fewer but larger, bolder outputs

refraction is more likely to result in successful dispersion (I define successful as colour visible to the eye) when there are fewer dispersing rays proximal to each other, so output wavelengths won't combine - fewer facets with larger angles between them will facilitate this
Yssie - at what point do YOU think the smaller flashes become resolved enough? I mean, what size melee? I agree with what you said, but there has to be a threshold.
 

737lizakg

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Serg, sorry to revive an old thread, but do you or anyone else have a photo of the half cuts,? The dropbox links no longer work. A jeweller suggested ordering half cuts for a project but could not find any photos to show me. Sorry everyone!
 

marymm

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Minous, FWIW, I don't think LOGR uses well-cut melee, even if you upgrade to their higher color & clarity option ... I don't know how well-matched they are either, in terms of table/depth, which can also make a visible difference.
 
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