frustrated

[Begonia]

I am so frustrated right now.

The hubbie, me and 2 sons (14 and 10) are looking to upsize our house.

Not too much more size mind you, but more than our 940 square foot, 2 bedroom house.

I've got a problem with the hubbie. Might be passive aggressive (not qualified to say really), might be problems with transitions, might be the economy (although this journey was his idea), might be all or none of that or something else entirely. I'm too busy either going into a hot flash or coming out of one to be able to call it. I can tell you what my girlfriends call it, but it's not flattering...

All I know is that nothing satisfies him. I've seen many nice homes that will work just fine. He is looking for the 'perfect' home. Perfect is not a term I can relate to. Nothing in my world is perfect, nor do I expect it to be.

I'm ready to throttle him. Perfectly and efficiently.

The first house was bought for his needs and I've been stowing and sorting and pile managing for 14 years. I call myself a Pile Manager, or Crapologist when asked what my profession is.

There is just so little space, but we do have a massive 'shop' for him (which is why he bought the house when I was 2 weeks postnatal and so postpartum I could barely find a breast for the dear colicky screaming baby to latch on to). I can't keep this place clean, and now that my boys are home for the summer, the piles are starting to choke me. I've gotten rid of so much stuff, and can't pare down anymore. We all have 1 towel, 1 face cloth, only seasonal clothes out etc, etc, etc, but kids come with stuff you know? Hell, just keeping a supply of snacks on hand takes up half my kitchen.

Saw a really nice house yesterday that fits our checklist very well with minor compromises. The price is perfect (and a bit lower than we had hoped). Close to schools, bus routed, centrally located, a good investment etc, etc, etc. He says it's just okay, not perfect. It's a nice house PSers. Well designed and well-built - 1959 with cove ceilings and oak hardwood throughout. Our current house is 1950 so I know the foibles of the older places.

Our boys are about to start school clear across town in the fall and this house works well for that too. Also has an extra bedroom so I can do a homestay for extra cash if I want, and gives the boys freedom while I look for work.

I am so frustrated I want to cry, and I never want to cry. The hormonal situation likely isn't helping.

I've prayed about this. I'm trying to let go of my expectation and ego involved with getting a place, cuz the disappointment is just so hard. I've been living on this 'ship' for so many years. When something comes in, something has to go out because of the space issues.

This will be the first time we've sold a house and the second time we've bought, although my first time really - I don't remember the first time clearing. I was dealing with a screeching infant.

Thanks for listening. Right now I am getting the silent treatment because I told him he is sabotaging our efforts because he is too afraid to make the move and that I can't look with him anymore, as it is too disappointing when he rejects my choices. We haven't seen one yet that fits his list perfectly, as I would consider taking something that he really likes too. I'm not that picky, but I have to say, the one I saw yesterday really made me smile. It was so hard to walk away. We could be happy there. It was a warm home.

Thanks for listening...

 

[TooPatient]

I'm sorry.

SO and I spent months visiting (and re-visiting) every furniture store in town (and within 30 miles!) looking for the "perfect" couch. I sat on so many couches I loved that I just couldn't understand what the issue was... especially since we got to spend almost a month waiting for it to be delivered so we got to sit on the floor
Anyway.... we finally found The Couch and we still love that couch. It is so comfortable and we both truly like it.


You WILL find the right house for both of you. (SO and I also got to spend over a year visiting all of the houses that were for sale in the area while I went nuttier every day in a 500 sq.ft. appartment...)
When you do, you will both be truly happy with the house and enjoy it together for many many happy years.

Until then -- What is on his "perfect house" list? What is it that he is looking for? Would it help if he went out looking (or even just a drive by) to narrow down the houses you look at?

 

[lyra]

Would it make more sense to list and sell your home before looking at houses to buy? At least then he'd be "forced" to make a decision about one of the choices. It also makes more sense financially. You wouldn't want to be on the hook for two mortgages at the same time. Maybe he'd be more motivated if your house was actually sold.

 

[Gypsy]

I think you are likely right, that it’s not the houses you are looking at, but something internal to him. But I also think that maybe the way the two of you are communicating is making him defensive and obstinate.

I don’t like the silent treatment, it is passive aggressive. But if it comes after a fight where he is feeling attacked, then I think the issue is not one sided.

Can you guys go to a really good marital therapist? You would need to screen them and tell them (very sincerely) that you want someone who is impartial and whose job it is to facilitate healthy respectful dialog in a SAFE neutral place, NOT someone who is going to take sides and make either of you feel like you are being attacked. That’s my best suggestion.

My second best suggestion is for each of you to write letters to the other. With ground rules.

The letters need to be honest but respectful. And explain your perspective, best you can.
They need to focus on the house hunting issue, not on general marital problems.
The words “always” and “never” are not to be used.
You should outline each of your goals specifically. “I want to move because: A) B) and C)” and I think this house is perfect because A, B, C. Yes it has it’s problems but I don’t agree that they are important enough to keep us from putting in an offer because A, B and C.
Say how actual events, specific ones, make you feel and explain why.
If there is a point to be made there MUST be evidence. For example: “When you do these five things, you make me feel ____.” Is okay. But “You make me feel frustrated” unsupported, is not. Try to be as specific to actual incidents as possible. So: When you criticize a house for easily repairable issues, SUCH AS: paint or landscaping LIKE YOU DID IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE: _____________, I feel frustrated BECAUSE those are minor issues, in my opinion, compared to the major ones we have at our current house (list those problems) AND BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE I FEEL that they are things WE should be willing to compromise on. SO: I don’t understand why things like this disqualify a house for consideration from your perspective. CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT TO ME, PLEASE.


And then use the letters to communicate. Address each question best you can. And really think about the other person’s side. If you DISAGREE, again, state why. BUT DO NOT attack the other person. No: You ALWAYS do this and I’m sick of it! Even if that’s how you feel.

Maybe if you guys write to each other you can finally get to whatever it is that’s blocking this process, understand the other person’s perspective and come to a compromise that works for the two of you.

 

[rosetta]

I think you are likely right, that it’s not the houses you are looking at, but something internal to him. But I also think that maybe the way the two of you are communicating is making him defensive and obstinate.

I don’t like the silent treatment, it is passive aggressive. But if it comes after a fight where he is feeling attacked, then I think the issue is not one sided.

Can you guys go to a really good marital therapist? You would need to screen them and tell them (very sincerely) that you want someone who is impartial and whose job it is to facilitate healthy respectful dialog in a SAFE neutral place, NOT someone who is going to take sides and make either of you feel like you are being attacked. That’s my best suggestion.

My second best suggestion is for each of you to write letters to the other. With ground rules.

The letters need to be honest but respectful. And explain your perspective, best you can.
They need to focus on the house hunting issue, not on general marital problems.
The words “always” and “never” are not to be used.
You should outline each of your goals specifically. “I want to move because: A) B) and C)” and I think this house is perfect because A, B, C. Yes it has it’s problems but I don’t agree that they are important enough to keep us from putting in an offer because A, B and C.
Say how actual events, specific ones, make you feel and explain why.
If there is a point to be made there MUST be evidence. For example: “When you do these five things, you make me feel ____.” Is okay. But “You make me feel frustrated” unsupported, is not. Try to be as specific to actual incidents as possible. So: When you criticize a house for easily repairable issues, SUCH AS: paint or landscaping LIKE YOU DID IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE: _____________, I feel frustrated BECAUSE those are minor issues, in my opinion, compared to the major ones we have at our current house (list those problems) AND BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE I FEEL that they are things WE should be willing to compromise on. SO: I don’t understand why things like this disqualify a house for consideration from your perspective. CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT TO ME, PLEASE.


And then use the letters to communicate. Address each question best you can. And really think about the other person’s side. If you DISAGREE, again, state why. BUT DO NOT attack the other person. No: You ALWAYS do this and I’m sick of it! Even if that’s how you feel.

Maybe if you guys write to each other you can finally get to whatever it is that’s blocking this process, understand the other person’s perspective and come to a compromise that works for the two of you.

Wow. This is really stellar advice. I think we can all learn from this. Communication is key.

 

[partgypsy]

I agree with posters. I think it is better to sell your house before buying another one.

As far as why he is acting this way, it could be so many things. It could be just that he is picky. Or he is afraid of something (that you all won't be able to sell the current house, or it needs lots of work to sell, or that he won't have a workshop at the new place). Or he is just indecisive (that his "ok" is a yes).

But the main thing is to communicate. So you have a list of criteria. Does he have a list? Maybe he can make one, so that when a house comes along, he can go through his list and see if it really does or does not satisfy his criteria. Maybe he'll find out he has criteria that he didn't list or you weren't aware of, or that his criteria means a house out of the budget. But at least it may get the ball rolling.
And although it is clear to us you are at the end of your rope, does he know? Is there any way to express to him (in non-confrontational way) that for you, at this point, having additional space is more important to you than finding the perfect house, because to you, it is an emergency situation?

 

[Enerchi]

You have amazing advice here from Gypsy! I'd take that to heart and think about her ideas. Maybe start small with "house" things before branching out, but awesome advice there - yah Gypsy!

I also think if you were to list and sell your house first, then you have a better idea of what your closing/moving time frame is and what your price point is, for the next house. Having 2 houses can be extremely stressful - bridge financing will eat up a lot of profit or budget for DIY in the new place.

Good luck, Too Patient, this is not a comfortable head space to be in. There are road blocks he seems to be putting up and not explaining his reasons for them. He's not 'fighting fairly' as they say in counselling, but you cant change that, only you and how you react to it.

I say, first things first though - Have your broker over and deal with the concrete issue first - list the current home. Fingers crossed things improve from here forward!

 

[Begonia]

Thanks for the helpful replies everyone .

I do try to frame statements as an "I feel that..." issue instead of "you do...".

Until yesterday with the sabotage statement, which clearly put him on the defensive.

Oh if only marital counselling. The not working and need to find work plays a big part in why we don't go ($$$) I'd go weekly. I've come up with a plan for us to move to bigger place so that I can have a homestay and get my kids close to schools, thereby freeing my time up for some part-time work, and more cash flow.

I guess some would say get the counselling first and I can see the logic, but we are so cramped and tripping over each other. I think a lot of things would improve if we all had a bit of space. My Mom used to say "ain't nobody happy when Mom ain't happy", and I can tell you that this Mom needs a proper living space and a job (I have worked part-time in the past, just not at the moment).

I think part of the problem is I have always been so available to the whole family. Moving would mean a lot of changes, as I have big plans for the next half of my life, which includes a consistent wage-earner, and dare I say, having a whole lot more voting power on major decisions. I could be wrong here, and will talk to the man in question tonight.

SO was uncomfortable with listing the house first as we aren't seeing any listings that cover our wishlist. This last one is really close. Not as roomy as he would like and id doesnt have a proper suite, but not tiny by any means. We've been living in a cottage and now suddenly he wants a very spacious place. I've crunched the numbers and something has to give - either location, or size. Location is very important to me, and especially him. We agree on so many things. I don't think he is being realistic with his list, and that unrealism (word?) is what concerns me. I think something else is going on.

I just got so frustrated, ergo the 'sabotage' statement.

My people tend to call it like it is and his people won't talk about the elephant standing in the room that is squeezing the life out of us. Not usually a problem until major life decisions and then ta da! Here's Begonia writing to the PSers.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay well. Here are some thoughts to percolate on before you talk to him again.

Perfect is the enemy of good. Sometimes in life pursuing perfect can really shoot you in the foot, particularly when it results in unrealistic expectations and stress on relationships. It sounds like he wants perfect and you want “good enough”. That’s a really big line for some people to cross. I would talk to him about why he needs perfect and why ‘good enough’ is too much of a come down from his perspective. To look at it a different way—usually the quest for perfect is the quest for control. What is he seeking to control by insisting on perfect. How would ‘good enough’ not satisfy that need for him? Maybe he feels like he settled in other respects: work, etc. And so he’s trying to get something to come out the way he wants just so he can have that. Like you said, it might not be about the house at all. But you need to explore this concept of perfect to fine out why ‘good enough’ isn’t something that he is willing to settle for. Until you untangle that, I think you are going to have an uphill climb.

You can try to attack it from a parenting perspective: You and I don't expect our kids to be perfect. We don't expect perfect school attendance, straight A's, perfect manners, rooms military clean. We expect our kids to be good kids. To get good grades, to be polite and to be reasonably clean. Because asking them to be perfect isn't realistic. I FEEL, that in our house search we should try for the same perspective: Asking for everything on our wishlist for a home means that we would need to leave this neighborhood. And we aren't willing to do that. Because staying in this neighborhood and getting everything we want is unrealistic, I am happy to get a house that meets our major criteria (list) and compromise on having a suite and even more extra space.

Then, I think talking about whether perfect is really needed is a good place to continue the discussion. If your future home didn’t have a proper suite and was smaller that he wants how much of a compromise would that be on a day to day basis as opposed to having a slightly larger space and a suite? Is it really that big of a compromise when you think of how much real impact it will have in your daily lives? It sounds like it would still be a great upgrade from your current situation, and can he try to focus on that instead of the way it falls short of the ideal? Try to get him to a point where he is willing to prioritize your 'wishlist' and see if he can come up with a list of 'like to haves' instead of a list of 'must haves' only.

Your kids are 14 and 10. Most likely you will have a full house for only 4 more years. Then your first will leave the nest. And then four years after that, the next. You can not live in this out for another 4 months, let alone 4 years. But can he compromise for 4 years in this ‘good enough’ home until the first child leaves, then maybe you can renovate the house to add a suite with the space from the first child’s room once they are gone?

The fact that it is under budget is a nice perk. If you guys can put an offer in at an even better price to see if the owners will accept it, would he be willing to accept the house if it is even better priced (and can you do some renovation to make it work with the saved money?).

Finally, start with an apology for your sabotage comment and ask him to please start over with you, with an open mind. If he gets defensive say, “I am feeling like a wall just went up right there BECAUSE (provide evidence: did his posture change, did his voice, did he get up and pace), can you tell me what you are feeling?” Don’t use the word defensive. Try uncomfortable. “Why is this making you uncomfortable?” and see if that works better (that’s what I have to do with my, often defensive, husband).

"I feel" comments aren't enough. You have to couple them with evidence. I feel___ because______.

 

[packrat]

I'm sorry you're dealing w/this Begonia! Good advice previously, so I can't add to that. Just wanted to give you a hug mostly!

And wanted to say that I'd hope that just b/c you're not bringing in a paycheck doesn't mean that you don't get an equal vote in things. When we were looking at houses before we got married we never found "the" house. I didn't want this house and I was MAD, spitting nails mad, that this was the only one we could find that was remotely close to our "wish list". Basically it was "a" house, and technically that was on the wish list. And cheap. But, the thrill of it was, it was then *our* house b/c we got married and moved in. We've done so much work to this place and continue to do so much work to it. No matter what house we live in, or where we go, it's *our* house b/c we're together, and the only thing to do is focus on the positive parts of it, try to fix the negatives, and realize the house will never-ever be perfect, unless we win the lottery and can build our dream house from scratch. We're not perfect ourselves, you know? So there's no sense in running ourselves (and loved ones) ragged desperately searching for perfection.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

"I" statements are key. Starting a sentence with "you" makes the other person defensive. So saying, "I feel frustrated because looking at new homes was your idea" will go much farther b/c at the end of the day no one can argue with the way you feel. If I was in your position I would sit him down and see what was at the root of the issue. He obviously does not want to move. You do. Someone needs to compromise. Can you add on to your current home? Communication is key. You need to share your needs and he needs to share his. Validation also helps prevents fights. "It sounds like you are scared that we cannot financial afford a new home" (Or whatever you think the issue is) and let him either agree (and he will feel heard) or clarify (and you will get better understanding). Right now he has acting like a child. FIGHT the urge to act like his parent. Good luck.

 

[Begonia]

Thank you Toopatient, lyra, Gypsy, part gypsy, enerchi and packrat. So many good thoughts...

Yes, an apology is in order Gypsy. Could I just smack him really hard first? (Don't answer that) I think it would do me a world of good...just being honest here. I was raised with older brothers and sometimes a cuff upside the head was all that was needed. Wish my Dad or Mom were still alive, they'd take him for a beer and coffee respectively and have a 'talk'. I'm saying all this tongue in cheek as Mr. Silent might not appreciate da family sticking their oar in.

I think at the heart of it all is worry about the changes that will come. The idea of the 'quest for perfect is sometimes the quest for control' may be a part of all of this. We've had a lot of upheavals and uncertainly over the past few years, which is partly why we are still in our little cottage. Home was a comfort. Now I'm ready to risk change, and I think we have a good plan with calculated risk.

The reality is that almost all of the major life decisions were his ideas and we usually end up implementing them. Now fortunately SO has a level head on his shoulders and they usually turn out just fine. Then, Begonia reaches her 40's and wants to implement some major changes of her own, which would mean a lot of changes for our whole family. They would be good changes: better cash flow, larger house, steps towards independence for kids...I think SO is having a hard time keeping up.

I'm going to have to have the Big Talk. No way around it.

Begonia ain't much of a big talker. No way around it though.

Damn.

Cover me, I'm going in.

 

[Gypsy]

I’ll tell you honestly Begonia. I’ve been with my DH since I was 23 (36 this year). We largely grew up together as adults. Have lived together in the same room for all that time. We even worked together for three of the years. We are best friends. We complete each other’s sentences. So it was one incredibly HUGE shock when we started therapy and we realized how different we were as individuals. How differently we looked at the exact same things. And how much our ‘assumptions’ about what the other was thinking, or not thinking, or feeling, were hurting our marriage. You may be right about why your DH is acting this way. But you may not. He might not be scared, or insecure, at all. He may consider you a ‘minor partner’ due to your not working—or that could be your own insecurities and he may not even care about that. He could just be really proud of the changes you are making, and his concern could be based on some childhood trauma you knew about, but had no idea was still haunting him. What I have learned is that you never know, even if you think you do, what the other person's perspective really is until they open up and tell you, and you really listen to them. So go into the conversation as if with a stranger. With new eyes and ears and really hear what he is saying just as it is. Not filtered through your own preconceptions. It is really frickin hard, mind you. But do give it a try. And ask him to do the same.

And yes sweetie I think your priorities should be to get into therapy as soon as possible and juggle what you can so you can do it. It’s really worthwhile to invest in your marriage.

 

[mogster]

I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated. I think househunting (or, really, two people having to agree on the biggest purchase they'll ever make) is just inherently stressful. Having purchased a house recently, I can relate, though perhaps more so with your DH. I didn't like anything that we were seeing. FI fell in love with a house that I thought was chintzy (poorly done DIY remodeling) and cramped (house was very compartmentlized and the layout did not "flow"). We got into a fight and he made it personal -- that I was too "boring" to appreciate an "interesting" house (as if that would make me reconsider). He was absolutely insistent that I would turn down every house that we saw because I had unrealistic expectations (at that point we'd only seen a handful of houses). I knew that I wasn't being unrealistic, but just waiting for something better to come up (how do you convince someone of that though?). I was frustrated that he was being impatient and he was frustrated that I couldn't just like something, anything. We did end up falling in love (for different reasons) with a house that came on the market a couple of weeks later. Assuming that there are no underlying issues that the other posters have mentioned, it may just be that your DH hasn't found one he likes yet. With that said, househunting is tough! Good luck to you both!

 

[Hera]

I'm wondering if he's a little overwhelmed with the decision to move. There's a lot of If's in the equation and that can lead to a lot of stress and indecision: This sounds like a good idea: IF you sell your home quickly after you find a house and things will get easier IF you find a job. Both of these things depend on your geographical location and have proven difficult in many places. I agree with Lyra to sell the house first.

 

[Enerchi]

I'm afraid I have nothing of value to add to the already INCREDIBLE supportive ideas that so many OPs are sharing with you, but I just wanted to {{{HUG}}} you and give you support that even when things seem impossible and you are up against a "brick wall on legs", taking a step back, a big breath and just going forward with your thoughts/ideas/needs/desires... is ok to do and you WILL survive the contact! It is scary as hell to try to assert yourself and become a 50% voting member in a relationship that may have been pretty 60/40, or even 95/5, and often the more powerful person does not want to relinquish that control.

It is worth the effort. If you can't see your life without him and your boys in it, it's worth the investment in yourself and your marriage, to speak slowly, softly and calmly about what your needs are and they are every bit as important and valuable as his - whether you've worked outside the home 1 day or a 1000 days, you are still an equal partner.

Blah blah blah... rambling uninvited thoughts - sorry! I'll just get back to the big Begonia {{{HUG}}}}!

 

[movie zombie]

..........I think part of the problem is I have always been so available to the whole family. Moving would mean a lot of changes, as I have big plans for the next half of my life, which includes a consistent wage-earner, and dare I say, having a whole lot more voting power on major decisions. .........

and therein lies the problem and the issue: you have big plans for the next half of your life. i'm betting he doesn't share those plans because implementing them will require change on his part.

 

[Begonia]

Thanks Rosetta, Tacori E-ring, Mogster, herranderson, Enerchi, Movie Zombie. Nice to have feedback, and your insights...

Had The Big Talk.

Whew.

The Big Talk swerved into oncoming traffic and became an argument. I steered it back into it's lane as best I could.

They don't teach communication in schools. They should. We both suck at it. He clams up and I get accusatory. It's what we both know. Hard to fight that ya know?

Yet on some level it feels good to say some things that have been simmering for a long time...you see we just don't talk about certain things for fear of fighting. If done fairly, disagreements can be almost cleansing I think. I'm not too sure this last one was very fair, but I learned a lot about how to do some future discussions. It's been so long since we aired things.

Where did we leave this house decision? Well he maintains that the house is just too old, and he is worried about underlying issues ie. drainage, pipes, wiring. Those are fair points as we have had to look at those issues with our current generation of house. He is sticking to his original wish list, which I maintain is unrealistic and likely to leave us in our current house for several more years if not indefinitely. I explained that leaves the kids and I in a difficult situation, and he won't budge on what he feels is important in a house.

I then explained that I am ready for some major changes and am really excited about implementing them. That is hard to put things on hold for possibly another year. We have many contractor friend that can help us inspect the house for those potential hidden problems. He just isn't interested in this house.

This house has now become a metaphor for some bigger issues, or maybe he just is really, really, really worried about buying this house.

I think all marriages could do with some counselling and I know ours could. I also think (MZ that the changes ahead are clouding his judgement at times.

Gosh I'm so tired. That was hard.

I appreciate your feedback, I really do. I've not got any of my people around me. Ya know my side of the family? Mom and Dad are gone (too soon) and brothers and sisters are elsewhere ( and don't really give a hoot to be honest), so I turned to my PS family.

I'll read all of your posts again, as my mind opens up and I can absorb your wisdom. Gotta take a kid to camp, so need to go get prettied up. That's gonna be a challenge today, the prettied up part

 

[movie zombie]

Begonia, i admire your courage: in the face of all this your writing still has a core of...gasp...humor.

yes, i agree with you that the house is a scapegoat for the real issues.
change is never easy: before you try and change someone else, remember how hard it is to change yourself.

however, i'm not sure you're trying to change your husband as much as you're looking for some compromise. i will also note that up until now married life has worked really well for him just as it is. he is perhaps used to your compromising and at this point the living arrangement suits him just fine. he may even think that the kids are old enough that they will not be in the home much longer so why upset the applecart now.

you are moving into an exciting time of your life. making sure he understands this may be difficult. he may not understand that you've enjoyed your wife and motherhood roles but now you want to explore other aspects of your abilities. unless he gets on the same page with you and can be supportive, its going to be very difficult for you to more forward and the more difficult it is to move forward, the more resentment you're going to feel and eventually not be able to "stuff". i'm afraid its going to require some very good counseling. not just the average joe/josephine but someone with some real skill. [not all therapists/counselors are created equal.] he may be afraid that change will also include leaving him behind.......what he doesn't realize is that unless he can move forward with you and find a compromise, you may do just that. or your resentment may make you a miserable person that he just doesn't recognize anymore.

i like your style, Begonia. you took this head on. you have a reasoned logic. you recognize YOUR as well his limitations re "discussions", etc. this is a good place to start from. if he won't go to counseling, go without him. it may be the wakeup call he needs.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

We teach patients how to have a "fair fight." Like any behavior change it takes some time for it to become natural. Communication is taught through social learning. Kinda scary if your parents did not healthy communication skills. The good news is you both can be role models to your sons. It's okay to ask for what you need in life. It's okay to express your feelings without becoming slaves to them. It's okay to be assertive.

Sorry the talk did not go well. Sounds like it was long overdue and maybe therapy will help you both learn to listen and say what mean without saying it meanly. Good luck.

 

[Gypsy]

He clams up and I get accusatory.

This is me and DH to a T. Counseling has really helped us communicate. I would look into to it ASAP if it were me.

I think you are looking for compromise as well. And no, you aren't getting it. But you also aren't understanding why you aren't getting it, and that's the key. Why won't he compromise?

 

[movie zombie]

gypsy, i can't answer for Begonia but my reading of her posts seem to indicate that he's not had to compromise much and that in fact she has been the compromiser....or because things weren't really an issue, just went along with the flow. now having plans that she wants to execute, well, that's out of his realm of experience within the relationship? life is and has been very comfortable for him. that she might have needs that can be fulfilled outside the home and outside their relationship might never have crossed his mind. and now that she's vocalizing those needs and actively seeing avenues in which to make them become real AND asking him to make changes to accomodate her needs, well, that's perhaps not what he's used to in this relationship. this could be a real mindbender for him.

i guess she could stop cleaning house, tell everyone to start using his shop for their spillover, and stake out some territory for her own use in that shop as well. perhaps he'd get the point re space needs.

but at the heart of the issue is that she is growing which means she is changing and that may be something that is more difficult for him.

all conjecture on my part, of course.

 

[Begonia]

" will help you both learn to listen and say what mean without saying it meanly"

Damn that's good. I'm gonna tatt that one onto my inner arm later. Seriously.

Not too sure why he won't compromise Gypsy, but our history is such that we inevitably do what he thinks best, as MZ gauged quite accurately. He isn't at all overbearing about it, and is quite patient. Kind of like the water and the rock...well his family does not have a history of compromise and we do what we know.

SO is not an alpha good 'ole boy kinda guy. He's quite quiet, reserved and sensitive, but my 14 year old today referred to him a as 'silent control freak.'

Now we weren't referring to this house business, rather my older boy was venting a bit on his own. Headed out for a walk around the lake and son #1 wanted to go with me. That was pretty nice, as at 14 (him of course) I'm not that cool to hang with anymore. He doesn't talk much about his feelings so that was big for him to get some things off his chest. I was careful to stay neutral, but his opening up got me thinking alright. Kids are spooky how they pick up on things. Even the bird is putting her piece in now. Keeps flying over and looking deeply into my eye. It's wild having a wee birdie look at you and tell you her thoughts with a beautiful little brown eye. Kinda spiritual really, but I digress...

Man don't you just love perimenopause! For those of you who are at that stage of life with me. Well I'm not blaming the pause, change was a-coming anyway. My stuffing-things-down days weren't going to last forever. Lightbulb! I also suffer from acid reflux...

I'm letting go of this house. I wouldn't want it anyway, as who knows how that might play out? I'd hate to be in a position where I would get blamed for everything little/big thing that may/will be wrong with the place. Hell, there are going to be problems with any place we buy. The Begonia family are not, how shall I say this delicately...rich? Well-heeled? Loaded? Just got rid of the 1x6 and drainage tile bookcase from the student days a couple of years ago. Might have to start a thread on that one later...creative furniture ideas on a budget (I need a mantle mirror).

Lastly, thanks for liking my style MZ. I'm not everyone's cup of tea, and for a lot of years that used to bother me, although I would never admit it. I'm kinda partial to your style too.

What a wild and crazy ride this life is.

Time for a hot beverage.

 

[Enerchi]

Begonia, you ROCK!!! you kicked it old school with DH!!! YEE HAW for you - I'm so pleased that you were able to initiate this talk. I completely agree (via my impressions of your post, so no idea if fact or fiction) but DH has had it waaaaaay to sweet for waaaaaay too long! He is fearful of the unknown - will you leave, will he leave, what do you mean by change, what do you mean by job and other interests, what will happen to his routine/space/solitude/"dictatorship"??? All scary stuff for a man who has been the household ruler for so long. As you say, he just repeats what he knows, so breaking a cycle is very hard to do. He IS scared but you also hold a fair amount of power right now - so please don't forget that.

Your power lies in how you will change and how that will affect the family. Use it wisely!! Unless this whole house issue is a preamble or metaphor for "the marriage is over", (and no idea if that is true or false, so ignore me as needed!!) you do want to be in this family/marriage but just want a different purpose, which now includes being outside the home in some way. He may not 'get' that. I think you can still proceed with your desires and goals and also reassure him that you aren't going anywhere other than a new address with him and the boys! He's nervous about that - IMO.

I also think letting the house you've been thinking of, go, is the right thing. You are dead on with the idea that you would be blamed for any little thing that was not right. I'd suggest you both make a new list of needs/wants for the future house. Compare them and see what is top priority for both of you - that's the new list you could both work from - the items you agree on.

Remember that Rome wasn't built in a day, but each little step forward is a good thing. I'm so pleased for you! Just keep plugging along! (and why a hot beverage? I'd be crackin' open a cold one, after that event!!) Stay strong, Begonia, your PS family is here for you!!

 

[Begonia]

Thanks for the lovely post Enerchi! I can't tolerate the cold brews sadly, or alcohol of any sort, so I've turned to hot brews. They are comforting for me. The womenfolk in my family have always put the kettle on when your raft hits the rapids.

MZ, you sound just like my Mom. Don't take that the wrong way, it has nothing to do with age. It's how you think and express yourself. It is a very, very comforting thing for me to read your posts. Thank you.

Gypsy, MZ, Tacori, and everyone...what amazing minds you have...I may not be 'hearing' everything you are trying to tell me right now...sometimes it takes me a while to accept things. Especially some of your posts Gypsy. Some unsettling realizations going on. PSers can always count on your courage to say what needs to be said. I am grateful.

Where is the house situation?

Well I googled, and scrolled and read and thought and scribbled and was brutally honest about finances. The numbers keep coming up the same. No way in hell should we buy a house as big as he had hoped. Quite frankly the house I liked was on the extreme upper end of our realistic budget.

When we bought our first house we didn't believe what the banks said we could afford. We went waaaay under preapproval. It was still a struggle at times. Now there is more information available about housing costs thankfully. For some reason this time we, and I am embarassed to say this, believed what the 'money lenders' were telling us. God, where was my brain in all of this? Never mind. Thank goodness, I started crunching numbers.

Did it all day.

Did it again. Again.

Numbers came up the same.

Man it was a great moment, after the shame and incredulity.

Freeing really.

So, confronted the hubbie when he came home. Stayed calm and showed him the numbers and all of the research I'd done.

He agreed.

We've scaled back our plans, and are considering taking a mortgage less than half of what was originally on the table.

From what I can see, that is going to require considerable compromise on both our parts for house size and style. At the end of the day, what is essential is getting that third bedroom for my teenager, close to schools. This we can still do.

I don't believe he will go for counselling. I'll ask.

I'll go myself.

Time for a hot beverage.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Begonia, you've made so much progress here! And your hubby seems like he has made quite a bit too. Things like this are never easy, but you approaching it calmly and armed with real information (not just the emotional stuff that it's easy to get wrapped up in) goes a long way toward getting where you ultimately need to go. You are definitely on the right track here.

 

[movie zombie]

way to go, Begonia! crunching the numbers and working for compromise around "reality" is/was a winner. priorities for teenager's bedroom, etc. was also a good place to meet.

glad you find comfort in my posts.....not insulted by the mother reference because i'm betting i'm more your grandmother's age! sigh....

very impressed with how you're handling this. rather than getting stuck, you've kept an open mind and found ways to communicate with hubby. i'm glad that you will go go counseling even if it doesn't want to go. and perhaps if you go he will eventually change his mind.

you've earned that hot beverage!

 

[Gypsy]

Great job on the number crunching and on talking to him. Yes, realizations about life and relationships can be unsettling. As you have them write them down. Reflect on them. Then after a few days/weeks go back to them and see how you feel.

Personally, if it were me I would ask DH to vet the houses first, if they meet his approval then he gets you involved and he listens to your feedback.

 

[Enerchi]

Sounds like you are making huge strides here, Begonia! Fantastic!

You can't fight the facts - they are there in black and white and for all to see. There is no disputing the calculations so that was a completely intelligent and practical exercise, on your part - you go girl! Once you face the reality of what you can afford, that will be very effective in what you can now look at. Champagne wishes on a beer budget, so to speak, which is good to know up front. Nothing worse than falling in love with a 4 ct when you can really only afford a .40 ct, right??? (Thought I'd bring it back to PS terms here - lol!)

I'm so happy for you - its just a small step, but it shows great motivation on your part to compromise and the same with DH - without either of you giving up too much. Fantastic!!

As for the counselling, even if he won't join you, if you feel you could benefit from it - do it. There is nothing but positives to be gained by self growth.

I'm really glad for all the process work you are doing - hip hip hooray for you! Heck - have 2 hot bevvies!! Live on the edge

 

[Gypsy]

I did want to say one thing.

Stop assuming things about your DH .

You assume he's stressed. You assume he's scared. You assume he won't go to therapy. You assume he feels like he has more say because he is the one working. Stop doing that.

Say: Are you stressed? or: Does this stress you out?
Say: Is this scary for you? or: Does this situation frighten you?
SAY: I want us to go to therapy. It is important to me. I will do my best to make sure the therapist is a fair and impartial one. Will you come with me?
SAY: Do you feel that by being the working partner you are entitled of more say in our decisions than I am?

If the rest of what I wrote is gobbledygook, okay. But please try to adopt this habit of not assuming. It is really important.