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From Tiffanys to Vintage, am I Crazy?!

techguy89

Rough_Rock
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Apr 7, 2016
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27
I was initially looking at very standard timeless engagement rings such as what Tiffany carries in the ~$30k range for my girlfriend. After going to a few stores, my girlfriend fell in love with vintage/style rings and one ring in particular. It's from a store that seems to have a good rep in the vintage space, but I'm still new to how vintage works.

Because the ring/diamond is unique, I don't want to wait too long as it may be tough to find a similar one. The jeweler doesn't have it GIA certified, but he can do it once I buy it, but he says for vintage diamonds it's not really necessary. It's a 3.5 carrot M/N color in a I2/SI2 for around $30k. Does that seem decent for a ring like this?
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
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1,906
Sounds like your GF has tried it on which is good! I personally would not buy until AFTER it has been certified- the clarity in particular sounds off, not sure what I2/Si2 means?? Can you show us any pictures?
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
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I would want a certificate. Would love to see pictures of the setting.

You can check out a couple sites with antique stones to get some ideas

Jewels by Grace

For example a 3.11 ct. O/P with a cert VS clarity in a simple setting $20,000.... with a GIA Cert

https://jewelsbygrace.smugmug.com/Vintage-and-Antique-Rings/311ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/

This was in her Jewel Journal I don't see it on the site yet you would have to call.

Old World Diamonds - two examples

3.2 ct. M VS1 with EGL Cert for $22,700

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/diamonds.php

3.55 O/P VS Cushion in a setting $22,185

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/jewelry-detail.php?id=158&maxpage=0&sort=weight

Don't rush into a purchase take your time and find a great diamond.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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18,880
What does the setting look like?
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If you have the time, I would ask blue Nile for a photo of this stone. I, VVS clarity, 3.11ct cushion that based on the culet and gia plot, very good chance of being an old cut cushion for (with a discount) right about 26500.

You've got to search it on blue Nile as their links are the woooorst.

LD05414054

If the original setting isn't what's captured her attention. If it is, then you may just have to buy that one.

To answer your question no youre not crazy. If she doesn't want Tiffany's, you'd be crazy to buy one!
 

sharonp

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Mar 7, 2016
Messages
81
techguy89|1460004680|4016472 said:
I was initially looking at very standard timeless engagement rings such as what Tiffany carries in the ~$30k range for my girlfriend. After going to a few stores, my girlfriend fell in love with vintage/style rings and one ring in particular. It's from a store that seems to have a good rep in the vintage space, but I'm still new to how vintage works.

Because the ring/diamond is unique, I don't want to wait too long as it may be tough to find a similar one. The jeweler doesn't have it GIA certified, but he can do it once I buy it, but he says for vintage diamonds it's not really necessary. It's a 3.5 carrot M/N color in a I2/SI2 for around $30k. Does that seem decent for a ring like this?
There is an enormous price difference between SI2 and I2 and also based on how eye visible the inclusions are. For that much money the grading report is really important for determining value could be a 20k difference. While it doesn't change the beauty of the ring a GIA report determines how much you should pay.
 

techguy89

Rough_Rock
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Apr 7, 2016
Messages
27
Thanks everyone. The price is for the diamond and the setting. The diamond is a vintage diamond I think from the early 1900s and is 3.64 MN SI2 Elongated Cushion cut, which I don't think modern cuts really make anymore. The setting is a new setting, but a vintage style to match the diamond.

I can get an EGL certification, because they can do it without removing the stone from the setting. If I want the GIA, it would have to be if I'm buying it and not a condition of sale, as GIA generally gives low rating to vintage diamonds anyway.

The seller is generally well regarded on this forum for vintage style rings.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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techguy89|1460045140|4016577 said:
Thanks everyone. The price is for the diamond and the setting. The diamond is a vintage diamond I think from the early 1900s and is 3.64 MN SI2 Elongated Cushion cut, which I don't think modern cuts really make anymore. The setting is a new setting, but a vintage style to match the diamond.

I can get an EGL certification, because they can do it without removing the stone from the setting. If I want the GIA, it would have to be if I'm buying it and not a condition of sale, as GIA generally gives low rating to vintage diamonds anyway.

The seller is generally well regarded on this forum for vintage style rings.

All the stone (including the one I suggested to you) are, or are meant to be, antique cuts. They in fact do make replication antique cuts now.

Is this a singlestone ring?
 

techguy89

Rough_Rock
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Apr 7, 2016
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Thanks, but i posted it as a link because I didn't want the picture to remain online since my girlfriend visits this site and may stumble upon it :/

Is it possible to remove the picture? Thanks!!
 

techguy89

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Apr 7, 2016
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Niel|1460048802|4016611 said:
techguy89|1460045140|4016577 said:
Thanks everyone. The price is for the diamond and the setting. The diamond is a vintage diamond I think from the early 1900s and is 3.64 MN SI2 Elongated Cushion cut, which I don't think modern cuts really make anymore. The setting is a new setting, but a vintage style to match the diamond.

I can get an EGL certification, because they can do it without removing the stone from the setting. If I want the GIA, it would have to be if I'm buying it and not a condition of sale, as GIA generally gives low rating to vintage diamonds anyway.

The seller is generally well regarded on this forum for vintage style rings.

All the stone (including the one I suggested to you) are, or are meant to be, antique cuts. They in fact do make replication antique cuts now.

Is this a singlestone ring?
If you don't mind, can you please remove this image attachment? Thanks!
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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techguy89|1460049513|4016616 said:
Niel|1460048802|4016611 said:
techguy89|1460045140|4016577 said:
Thanks everyone. The price is for the diamond and the setting. The diamond is a vintage diamond I think from the early 1900s and is 3.64 MN SI2 Elongated Cushion cut, which I don't think modern cuts really make anymore. The setting is a new setting, but a vintage style to match the diamond.

I can get an EGL certification, because they can do it without removing the stone from the setting. If I want the GIA, it would have to be if I'm buying it and not a condition of sale, as GIA generally gives low rating to vintage diamonds anyway.

The seller is generally well regarded on this forum for vintage style rings.

All the stone (including the one I suggested to you) are, or are meant to be, antique cuts. They in fact do make replication antique cuts now.

Is this a singlestone ring?
If you don't mind, can you please remove this image attachment? Thanks!

Yeah I did.
 

techguy89

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
27
Thanks! So I think the unique aspect of the diamond, besides the fact that it's vintage, is that it's an elongated cut that is not as common in modern diamonds. Is that accurate, it seems like recuts in that shape may be available.
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
I would be wary of the fact that the seller is hesitant to get the GIA certification. I wear a vintage stone, and my jeweler sent the stone to GIA when I requested a certification. I chose GIA because I was wary of EGL's reputation for certifying stones as having a higher color relative to GIA certs.

I am interested in hearing the industry experts' opinions on the value of a certification based on a stone that is set vs unset.
 

moneymeister

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,462
Not crazy...an old mine cushion is a romantic selection.
What a lovely ring. Love the lower vanilla color of the stone.

I personally would recreate this ring with a GIA diamond. Otherwise that jeweler's pricing is like wearing a blindfold and aiming at a dart board. I am a total romantic, but not THAT romantic :)
 

techguy89

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Apr 7, 2016
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I think the issue is just the amount of work to remove the stone from the setting, then have to reset it in the chance that I don't end up purchasing it. He did say he can show me other stones that are already GIA certificated and can put them in a similar or same setting as the original ring I saw. But the elongated stone is apparently hard to find and expensive because of that fact.
 

Mayk

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techguy89|1460053912|4016652 said:
I think the issue is just the amount of work to remove the stone from the setting, then have to reset it in the chance that I don't end up purchasing it. He did say he can show me other stones that are already GIA certificated and can put them in a similar or same setting as the original ring I saw. But the elongated stone is apparently hard to find and expensive because of that fact.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind and you are looking for confirmation it's ok to buy without a cert. Too much trouble for the seller? $30,000 he should be trying to make you feel secure in your purchase. No way would I buy without a certificate. It's just like someone said. Playing darts blindfolded.

You can find them. They are not easy to find but they can be found with a little work. I would ask for it to be certified. It's lovely and if she loves it that's awesome. Once it's certified then you will have a better idea if the price is good.


Here's an enlongated K SI1 with cert. No setting but in the same ranges but a K in color.

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/3-01-ct-and-up/3-75ct-antique-cushion-cut-diamond-gia-k-si1#.VwapCdT3arU
 

moneymeister

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 20, 2009
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Do the (many) flaws break the surface?
A Si1/I1 has significant inclusions. What kind are they and do they risk the integrity of the diamond? If your beloved knocks it on the counter, will the inclusion be one that is more likely to chip? Those questions should be answered and hopefully by someone without a vested interest in the outcome of the sale.
 

rocks

Brilliant_Rock
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Actually....elongated cushions sell at a discount to square cushions. You are correct in saying that they are more difficult to find.
 

techguy89

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
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Thanks everyone! So what do you think is the best approach for moving forward. I do like the ring, but not having the verification until after I purchase it isn't ideal for me. I'm not sure why that seems to be such a big deal. The jeweler does offer other diamonds thay are GIA certified, so maybe I should look at those.

Also, based on info I've provided, what would a fair price range for this ring be?
 

techguy89

Rough_Rock
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Apr 7, 2016
Messages
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moneymeister|1460063767|4016700 said:
https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/cushion#range10
These list price per carat. Look at the differences that a slight variation can make in price/value.
Also, I would ask if the diamond has had the inclusions treated/clarity treated in any way. That can also effect value negatively.
Thanks for the link. That's super helpful. Based on that, I'd say about $3500/carrot is good plus maybe a bit more because the stone is rare. So even at $4k a carrot, that comes to $14k for the stone rather than around the $30k the jeweler is charging, right?
 

moneymeister

Brilliant_Rock
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We don't have enough information, but I think if you start at the top and read through the comments again, most people who replied to this thread indicate there is a need for more information to narrow the value down.
 

techguy89

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moneymeister|1460065832|4016711 said:
We don't have enough information, but I think if you start at the top and read through the comments again, most people who replied to this thread indicate there is a need for more information to narrow the value down.
I understand that, but based on the fact that I won't be able to get a GIA cert until after a purchase for this stone, what other info can I get up front. I'm going to ask about the inclusions and whether it has been filled, but that's all I can think of.
 

techguy89

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Also, thank you to everyone else involved in this thread. It's so much less stressful to make a big purchase with the awesome feedback and advice of you all. :)
 

ringo865

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I understand that, but based on the fact that I won't be able to get a GIA cert until after a purchase for this stone, what other info can I get up front. I'm going to ask about the inclusions and whether it has been filled, but that's all I can think of.
up front.
IF you must buy THIS ring, make sure the return period allows you enough time to send it GIA to get it certified. And if after you pay to have it certed, it doesn't come close to what he holds it out as, and you do return it, get it in writing that you get 100% refund, not store credit or minus a restocking fee.

As you noticed in your other searches you could get an already-certed stone for around $4k a carat. So why pay this guy twice that for something you cannot quantify? It's not THAT rare of a shape, color, or clarity (purported).
 

Niel

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Yeah I have concerns, why wont ge send it to get a gia cert before you buy it. Will he refund you if it's off by a lot? It seems very expensive for what it is.

Just for discussion, that blue Nile one I suggest you get a photo of above... It's near colorless, VVS, and 3cts, and, as the photo shows below, has an elongated ratio. I don't think it hurts to ship around as for me this ring throws up red flags. However, I agree with mayk, you seem very set on buying the ring.

picsart_04-07-06.jpg
 
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