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Friend Ignored Advice, Got Mugged - What Do I Do?

Is one at fault if one puts oneself in unsafe situation and ended up getting mugged & assaulted?

  • Zero fault. It's one's right to do whatever one desires.

    Votes: 10 43.5%
  • Partially at fault.

    Votes: 7 30.4%
  • Largely at fault. One can control own action and thus is at least responsible for the controllable a

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • Total voters
    23

D_

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
245
Hello,

So... before my close friend went travelling, I told him to avoid certain parts of the country he was about to visit and suggested that he may want to "dress accordingly" (he's good looking person and you can take one look at him and tell he has a good fashion sense. He's also loaded and not afraid to show it, especially with a designer watch and an obviously bulging wallet - he has always preferred cash versus cards... - just to name a few. While all those make, or he thinks it makes, part of his charm, depending on where he is, it is also a clear "come mug me" signal to people with bad intentions).

So of course he went and ignored my advice and got mugged (thankfully he was still smart enough to keep his travel document safe in his hotel). He was also the type that won't go down with a fight. So after trying to fight the violent assault, he ended up with bruises, a few cuts and broken ribs.

Of course I didn't get to know this until after he came to my place one day after he got back and I might have looked a bit puzzled when I saw his black eye (hey, I can't always assume the worst, right?), and he launched into a litany of "wtf, what barbaric people, in this day and age? Seriously? I could understand it better if it were to be in a developing country*, but I went to a developed country. Isn't it supposed to be safe there, people should be cultured, none of this @#$%^ should ever happened etc."

I tried my best to bite my tongue because I know I have nothing good to say (I'm not sure I even wanted to say anything good).
Looked like I didn't do a good job in not showing where I stand on this matter, because even without saying anything he shot a look at me and continue "what? It's my prerogative to dress however I want, wear any accessories that I want. I have the rights to do that. Doesn't mean they have the rights to mug me. And you wouldn't believe how useless the police were. They asked me to describe the people, of course I couldn't tell clearly, it was dark, I might have been a bit intoxicated... and before you say anything I'll say that it's also my right to have drinks and basically enjoy the evening, it is a free country after all etc. Even if I shouted "come mug me!" in my drunken stupor, nobody should ever actually mug me."

Well they shouldn't. But they did.

I am with the school of thought that we can't always control other people's actions or behaviour, but we can control ours.
So we have the responsibility, at least to ourselves, to keep ourselves safe.
Of course it doesn't mean the muggers were right. Mugging is a crime and hence it's wrong (poverty etc. is a whole different issue and doesn't make it right). But if I know the risk, then by doing that I accept the risk. If nothing happens, then good for me. If crap happens then I accept that I took a calculated risk and I would take the responsibility of taking that risk.
I'd say if the same thing happened while he was walking at a crowded place in a broad daylight while he was fully conscious, or if he were at that shady place but he had taken self defense classes that he knew how to protect himself should such thing ever happened, he wouldn't look as much of an idiot to me (the scene could be more attributed to "crap happens").

What do you think?
Was my friend at zero fault for what transpired?
I just stayed quiet but what I really wanted to do was to say that I do think that it was (at least partially) his fault, that he didn't have to agree with my way of thinking (just like friends and spouses don't have to always agree with each other), that we can remain friends despite this and that I have warned him before so I would appreciate not hearing him bitching about it any more.
What would you do if you were me (after the fact)?
Could we have remained friends if I did what I had wanted to do?

*I don't think developed vs developing countries make much of a difference. Dark corners and unsafe places exist, we just need to behave accordingly.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,670
Yeh, your friend has rights but he doesnt have common sense! I think you were due an "I told you so" but maybe in a gentler format...
"I'm sorry that happened but I told you to not go there." I see no reason why you cant, or shouldnt, remain friends no matter what you
said. He really shouldnt have gone on and on. Even developed countries have lots of bad areas that I wouldnt want to be in especially
tipsy and at night with a wad of money in my pocket. He better start using some common sense. Just because bad people shouldnt,
and he has a right, doesnt mean it aint gonna happen. He sounds rather immature in his thinking or a little to idealistic. Welcome
to the real world...now give me all your money...bahahaha! :cheeky:
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,005
I think you warned him, he didn't take your advice, you did all you can. Nothing else needs to be said.


I may have excused myself from the room while he went into his tirade of what a victim he was...


Life gives you the same lesson until you learn it. Sounds like he will get mugged until he learns to dress differently in sketchy neighborhoods.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
3,816
And if it was a woman and she was raped for wearing a miniskirt, would you feel the same? Victim blaming sheesh.

I think you were good to stay quiet. If YOU think he made a mistake by getting mugged, that's your opinion. Keep it to yourself or yes, I do think you risk ruining the friendship. I'd just try to put it in the past and move on as friends.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,175
Live and learn.

Too bad old people (who have had more time to learn) die and are replaced by young people who have had less time to learn.
 

chemgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
1,995
I wouldn't say anything to him. What's the point now?

On the topic of victim blaming, I am wondering where the line is? I don't think he did anything to deserve being mugged (because nobody deserves to be the victim of a crime right?). At the same time, I do think it's a bad idea to be out by yourself and intoxicated, especially at night in an unfamiliar place. So is that victim blaming?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,198
There is a line between personal responsibility and victim blaming.

I GENUINELY think women are better at navigating that line. Because we are taught from a young age (right or wrong) that we are the weaker sex, that we should always be aware of our surroundings, and that we should do what we can to minimize risk to ourselves.

Men, especially white, middle to upper class, are not taught this. Unless they are in the military and are trained for it. I see it in my husband. He walks down the street at night in a neighborhood that I would be very careful in with none of that watchfulness I KNOW I have, and that ALL of my female friends would have.

There is an innocence and yet at the same time arrogance in it.

I have it too about some things. For example we live in a very affluent area and when we go out to the store or to a restaurant, I am frankly lax about my handbag. I leave it on a chair next to me, sometimes the zipper is open. I'm not aware of it. I'm lazy about checking to make sure what is around me, and nothing ever happens. We went to a much less affluent area and were at a Taqueria there and I left my purse, unzipped on the back of my chair. A woman of color, older than me, stopped me when I got up to go to the salsa bar. She said, "Dear, your purse is open and you have it on the back of your chair where anyone can get to it and you can't see it." I was like... Oh, yeah. Right! So I zipped it, but it on an empty chair and put it close to me where I could see it at all times. And it struck home how much, as I've gotten older and we've been living where we are, how willfully ignorant of my personal safety I've gotten. Because let me tell you, when I lived in DC I was ALWAYS vigilant. And we lived in NW.

So if I had gotten my purse stolen that day, or someone had reached in and taken my wallet it would have been the THIEF'S fault, of course. But I could have avoided it simply by being more vigilant and while it may not be my SOCIAL responsibility to do so, it is my PERSONAL responsibility to MYSELF to do so.

So I think it's 60/40. Yes, you shouldn't be mugged. But yes, you should also use common sense and not be ignorant of your surroundings, for YOUR OWN good. Cause what good is being right about the fact that you 'shouldn't have been mugged' if you are lying in a ditch somewhere and you could have avoided it simply by using some common sense.
 

december-fire

Ideal_Rock
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2,346
What is it with people and their so-called 'rights'?

This has nothing to do with 'rights' (or gender).
Its about using the brains you've been blessed with to understand that crime happens and to make informed choices.

If he wants to paint a target on himself by pulling out a stuffed wallet and wearing an expensive watch, that's his choice (not a 'right').

And it facilitates the choice of the muggers about whom to mug.

No point talking to him.

I would have been tempted to ask him if he explained to the muggers that they were violating his rights. :rolleyes:
 

NOYFB

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
2,649
Gypsy|1457656334|4003013 said:
There is a line between personal responsibility and victim blaming.

I GENUINELY think women are better at navigating that line. Because we are taught from a young age (right or wrong) that we are the weaker sex, that we should always be aware of our surroundings, and that we should do what we can to minimize risk to ourselves.

Men, especially white, middle to upper class, are not taught this. Unless they are in the military and are trained for it. I see it in my husband. He walks down the street at night in a neighborhood that I would be very careful in with none of that watchfulness I KNOW I have, and that ALL of my female friends would have.

There is an innocence and yet at the same time arrogance in it.

I have it too about some things. For example we live in a very affluent area and when we go out to the store or to a restaurant, I am frankly lax about my handbag. I leave it on a chair next to me, sometimes the zipper is open. I'm not aware of it. I'm lazy about checking to make sure what is around me, and nothing ever happens. We went to a much less affluent area and were at a Taqueria there and I left my purse, unzipped on the back of my chair. A woman of color, older than me, stopped me when I got up to go to the salsa bar. She said, "Dear, your purse is open and you have it on the back of your chair where anyone can get to it and you can't see it." I was like... Oh, yeah. Right! So I zipped it, but it on an empty chair and put it close to me where I could see it at all times. And it struck home how much, as I've gotten older and we've been living where we are, how willfully ignorant of my personal safety I've gotten. Because let me tell you, when I lived in DC I was ALWAYS vigilant. And we lived in NW.

So if I had gotten my purse stolen that day, or someone had reached in and taken my wallet it would have been the THIEF'S fault, of course. But I could have avoided it simply by being more vigilant and while it may not be my SOCIAL responsibility to do so, it is my PERSONAL responsibility to MYSELF to do so.

So I think it's 60/40. Yes, you shouldn't be mugged. But yes, you should also use common sense and not be ignorant of your surroundings, for YOUR OWN good. Cause what good is being right about the fact that you 'shouldn't have been mugged' if you are lying in a ditch somewhere and you could have avoided it simply by using some common sense.

+1 I have nothing else to add. Gypsy said it perfectly.
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
10,615
I will add: Yep. To what Gypsy said.

I do a lot of the same things-we don't live in an affluent area, but I still am the same way. Now and again I think about it, like when it's dark, or when I have the kids w/me. JD shows me some of the people in town that he has to deal w/, people who are not nice to women, and sometimes are not nice to kids, so we know what they look like. It's hard b/c things *I* wouldn't do, I have a hard time thinking others would do them to *me*. Like I've never been a victim of something horrendous before, and like my husband doesn't deal w/people who do that shit every day, but yet I still do it.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I'll agree with what gypsy set.

But at the same time, is it any more ones fault for getting robbed in a "nice" area vs a "bad" area?
 

rainwood

Brilliant_Rock
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I voted no fault only because of the wording of the choices. I don't think someone who is robbed or assaulted is at fault because that would be victim blaming, but people can sometimes reduce the risk of something bad happening by their behavior. If they choose not to do that, that is their "right" but if something bad then happens, they shouldn't be surprised. Upset, yes, because being the victim of a crime is terrible, but not surprised. Maybe it's semantics, but to me there is a difference.

And to Gypsy's point, I see women who leave unzipped purses in their grocery carts ALL THE TIME, and shake my head. They may be only a few feet away, but that's plenty of time for something bad to happen, regardless of the neighborhood. Dealing with the contents of a stolen wallet is a huge hassle, and I never leave my purse anywhere unattended regardless of what a pain it can be. I had a close call while in law school when I left my purse on the chair next to me at a food court. I was busy talking to a friend, but saw a guy walking toward our table and must have sensed something because I grabbed my purse right before he went for it. He just kept walking and neither of us said anything (he was a big guy and we were a table of 2 women), but I knew it was a bullet dodged and I've never forgotten that lesson.
 

D_

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
245
Thanks, everyone for your input.
In that instance I think I did the right (or at least safer) thing by staying quiet.
For some reasons though, my gut feeling tells me that wouldn't be the last time I heard that from him nor the incident his.
At that point I know I'll have to weigh *this* with his other good qualities to decide if I want to remain close friend with him, because hey, after all, nobody is perfect, right?

Also, though the sample size is nowhere near sufficient to draw meaningful conclusion, it seems those who voted are inclined to say he was not at fault at all. Yet the general sentiment from those who bother to explain their reasoning seems to point the other way.
Maybe I asked the wrong question?
Was he at fault? Not at all.
Was he stupid/was what he did utterly idiotic and lacking any form of common sense? Maybe I should have asked this question instead.

I wonder how many people who would have answered "zero fault" (regardless of whether they have submitted their vote or were just voting in their mind), would have done the same or similar thing to him? Otherwise it's a bit hypocritical, no? "Oh it's his right, not his fault etc., he was in the right etc. but I wouldn't do that if I were him". If he did the right thing, why wouldn't you do the same, why wouldn't you want to do the right thing? I'm confused.

ETA: Ah thanks, Rainwood. Just saw your post. Ya I had thought it may have been something along those lines.
 

VRBeauty

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I changed my vote - the title of your thread asked about your responsibility, while the poll asked about the victim's responsibility. The discrepancy threw me off. :lol:

We live in a world where some people are inclined to take advantage of others, whether legally or illegally. Some even make their living by taking advantage of others. IMHO it's stupid and inviting trouble to pretend that dynamic doesn't exist. Does that mean the users, muggers, etc. are free of blame? Of course not, but in most cases that isn't going to restore whatever was taken from you.

Gypsy - I was the victim of purse snatchings twice way back in the day (the day when clutches, tucked under an arm, were popular...) so I'm probably more aware than most of purse vulnerabilities. When I'm dining out inside I like to sit at a table near a wall, which also means I can (usually) put my purse between me and the wall. I'm especially careful when dining outside, since many "sidewalk cafe" settings also mean someone could easily grab a purse as they walk or bike by. I sometimes resort to looping a purse over my knee, under the table. I've also carried large carabiners in some shoulder bags -to I use them to secure the strap to the chair or whatever else might be handy. When shopping with a grocery cart I'll use the kiddie "seatbelt" to secure my purse in the kiddie carrier, a trick my mother taught me.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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VRBeauty|1457671318|4003226 said:
Gypsy - I was the victim of purse snatchings twice way back in the day (the day when clutches, tucked under an arm, were popular...) so I'm probably more aware than most of purse vulnerabilities. When I'm dining out inside I like to sit at a table near a wall, which also means I can (usually) put my purse between me and the wall. I'm especially careful when dining outside, since many "sidewalk cafe" settings also mean someone could easily grab a purse as they walk or bike by. I sometimes resort to looping a purse over my knee, under the table. I've also carried large carabiners in some shoulder bags -to I use them to secure the strap to the chair or whatever else might be handy. When shopping with a grocery cart I'll use the kiddie "seatbelt" to secure my purse in the kiddie carrier, a trick my mother taught me.
Very good advice. I will keep it in mind. I am very lax. And it will bite me in the arse I'm sure, unless I change my ways.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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D_|1457647821|4002940 said:
Hello,

...

I am with the school of thought that we can't always control other people's actions or behaviour, but we can control ours.
So we have the responsibility, at least to ourselves, to keep ourselves safe.
Of course it doesn't mean the muggers were right. Mugging is a crime and hence it's wrong (poverty etc. is a whole different issue and doesn't make it right). But if I know the risk, then by doing that I accept the risk. If nothing happens, then good for me. If crap happens then I accept that I took a calculated risk and I would take the responsibility of taking that risk.
I'd say if the same thing happened while he was walking at a crowded place in a broad daylight while he was fully conscious, or if he were at that shady place but he had taken self defense classes that he knew how to protect himself should such thing ever happened, he wouldn't look as much of an idiot to me (the scene could be more attributed to "crap happens").

What do you think?
Was my friend at zero fault for what transpired?
I just stayed quiet but what I really wanted to do was to say that I do think that it was (at least partially) his fault, that he didn't have to agree with my way of thinking (just like friends and spouses don't have to always agree with each other), that we can remain friends despite this and that I have warned him before so I would appreciate not hearing him bitching about it any more.
What would you do if you were me (after the fact)?
Could we have remained friends if I did what I had wanted to do?

...
OP - with all your talk of fault and the inference that if your friend had just listened to you, the mugging wouldn't have happened, I am not getting a sense that you two are true friends or that you really gave a sh*t that your friend was badly hurt and traumatized by a mugging; I actually get the sense that you think he deserved it. It sounds like you really want to tell your friend off about even daring to share his mugging story with you, since you apparently feel it wouldn't have happened if only he had listened to you?

If this is the first time a friend has not followed your advice and wound up in a worse spot, I'd be surprised. But I guess if you two really are friends, I'm more surprised by your lack of concern about your friend.

There are people who get mugged/car-jacked in their own driveway in the light of day! Would you better support your friend if this had happened, or would you still believe he had been selected out of potential victims solely due to his dress/style/attitude and his geographic location?

No one deserves to be mugged, even people in the wrong place wearing what you have deemed the wrong clothing. True friends show concern and support for other friends after a mugging/similar trauma; and they don't hold out that support waiting for the "oh, you were right, I was wrong."

eta: No, I don't think it is your friend's fault he got mugged. No, I don't think a friend would be so dismissive about another friend's mugging. While I do think it is good practice to be cognizant of the realities of crime, I would not withhold my compassion should my friend be mugged in a bad neighborhood regardless of what he is wearing. And, no, I don't think taking a self-defense class reduces the risk of being a victim of crime.
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
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It's very hard for me to not pull "my mom" - the "I TOLD YOU NOT TO DO THAT BUT YOU WOULDN"T LISTEN TO ME" shtick, especially, the closer I am to that person. BUT, I've learned a LOT from PSers - with their guided and measured responses, and even MORE from my in-laws. We are dealing with adults, so the best you can do is to advise them if you have an opportunity to BEFOREHAND, like you did, before they go do x, y, z. After the fact, it's too late.

What I would do if I were you, D_, is to not travel with him in the future :lol: .
 

sstephensid

Shiny_Rock
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Mar 28, 2012
Messages
243
I agree with marymm. You sound so cold.

Do I wear expensive jewelry out of the country? No. Do I have the right to? Yes, I believe I have a right to wear MY OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY wihout it being stolen. But unfortunately thieves don't care about what is right or wrong, legal or illegal.

He was mugged and beaten up, what do you expect from him? I hope if something bad happens to you, your friends and family will be kind, not judging you on a message board. Maybe you will have empathy for others.

Your whole post is blatantly victim blaming. As others have said, what if it were an impaired person leaving a bar. You warned them to take a taxi, but they walked instead and were assaulted. Would you have empathy then? Would you think to say, I was right? No one deserves to be robbed, mugged, assaulted. You really seem to be insinuating he did deserve it based on his actions. This is gross.
 

monarch64

Super_Ideal_Rock
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17,758
I'm not participating in your poll, but I'll give you my opinion anyway. Your ego is as big as your friend's. His ego got in the way of listening to advice or instinct to protect himself. Your ego is now threatening your friendship with him because of its overwhelming urge to tell him "I told you so." You're both full of it. ;)) :bigsmile:
 

iLander

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He sounds a bit conceited and arrogant. It's pretty much his own fault.

It's my right to carry around raw steak, but I'd be an idiot to do that in front of an alligator.

He's an idiot. :rolleyes:
 

D_

Shiny_Rock
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marymm|1457708555|4003390 said:
OP - with all your talk of fault and the inference that if your friend had just listened to you, the mugging wouldn't have happened, I am not getting a sense that you two are true friends or that you really gave a sh*t that your friend was badly hurt and traumatized by a mugging; I actually get the sense that you think he deserved it. It sounds like you really want to tell your friend off about even daring to share his mugging story with you, since you apparently feel it wouldn't have happened if only he had listened to you?

If this is the first time a friend has not followed your advice and wound up in a worse spot, I'd be surprised. But I guess if you two really are friends, I'm more surprised by your lack of concern about your friend.

There are people who get mugged/car-jacked in their own driveway in the light of day! Would you better support your friend if this had happened, or would you still believe he had been selected out of potential victims solely due to his dress/style/attitude and his geographic location?

No one deserves to be mugged, even people in the wrong place wearing what you have deemed the wrong clothing. True friends show concern and support for other friends after a mugging/similar trauma; and they don't hold out that support waiting for the "oh, you were right, I was wrong."

eta: No, I don't think it is your friend's fault he got mugged. No, I don't think a friend would be so dismissive about another friend's mugging. While I do think it is good practice to be cognizant of the realities of crime, I would not withhold my compassion should my friend be mugged in a bad neighborhood regardless of what he is wearing. And, no, I don't think taking a self-defense class reduces the risk of being a victim of crime.
Mary,
Given your stance on this topic, will you do things similar to what he did?
Will you go full bling mode when you know you are going to a sketchy part of town?

And to answer your question and respond to Monarch, this is not about ego.
It's not about waiting to say "I told you so".
Hell, if I wished that he got harmed just because he didn't listen to me/just to prove I'm right then I'm sick - who does that?
Granted, one of the problem of an online discussion is it's more difficult to judge the tone etc, your perception plays a larger role, and one can't even expect to peer into another's mind, try if one may.
So I'll lay it all out (fully prepared to be judged - because come on, who doesn't anw):
Whenever people come to you with a problem, it takes away one or more of these things from you: time, energy, positivity etc. (dare anyone say otherwise? Can anyone honestly say they don't feel drained when they are with someone who complaints all the time?)
The level of what you are willing to give away may depend on a lot of factors, level of closeness is one.
And I do realize women (usually) have a bigger well of compassion + empathy compared to men.
So if he or my other friends come with their problems, I'm willing to listen, or if they are willing to accept, help them out.
And yes, I'll be a better support if it had happened under "normal circumstances".
After all, shit happens, and I think friends need to be there for each other.
BUT if it's something happened to you due to your own stupidity AND after I specifically said so, how is it fair that you invite me to also partake in your (almost self-inflicted) misery WHILE standing on moral high ground and trying to convince me you were in the right?

Stephen,
If something bad happens to me because of my own stupidity, then you don't have to worry, because I'll be blaming myself before my friends & family does anyway.
Why won't you wear expensive jewelry out of the country anyway if you think it won't contribute to you being mugged or assaulted or that you are concerned it may get lost?

It's often said that do unto others as you want them unto you.
So, all this defensiveness, is that because you (general you) also think your friends have/need to be there for you (e.g. be ready to be subjected to your misery) no matter what, even when you did stupid things out of your own volition (otherwise he/she won't be your true friends)? Do you also come from the school of thought that if you did something, anything, you shouldn't be the only one shouldering the responsibility of the consequences, even when you are the only one who reaps the (possible) benefits from the said action?
I feel that some people would like to enjoy the rights of being an adult but not the responsibility that comes with it.

And the very reason I bring this up on an online message board is because I (at least I think, I hope so) I can get a more brutally honest and unfiltered response. It's also somewhat anonymous, so people who are concerned of being judged in real life can be more forthcoming with their thoughts. It also protects the identity of the said person. What should have I done? Keep the resentment and my own feeling bottled up until it turns into contempt? Or talk to other people irl? Airing his dirty laundry irl? And do you think people, especially those who know at least one of us, will be able to give their honest opinion? Won't I be putting them in a tight spot if they happen to know both of us?

I'm looking for a solution, not just to be heard.
So being blatant is much better than putting a smiley face behind a disapproving response.
I'll be wary of such person irl because one may be the type who says all nice things to my face and the opposite behind my back.

And yes, I think friends can disagree with one another.
Friends can say no to your request.
Friends can quarrel once in a while.
An old friend once said people become friends due to mutual benefits, because at the very least they enjoy each other's company. I find truth in his statement.
Will you remain close to anyone who may bring nothing but misery to you? If you do, do you call them a "friend"?
Things happen, as Kenny said, we live and learn, dust ourselves off and move on.
If I'm not interested in maintaining the friendship I won't have to spend time typing all these up.
 

partgypsy

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Friend ignored advice and got mugged - what do I do? Give him sympathy and support.

My only addendum is say this was my brother or sister after going OMG are you OK, is there anything I can do for you? that really sucks! At some point I would say (immediate family member) what were you thinking going out like that? Don't you know there are crazy people out there who will knife you for $50 dollars? Promise me you won't do (a, b, c) next time!
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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I would laugh and call him a moron.
But I am mean that way.
 

susief

Shiny_Rock
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We humans have a very strong urge to blame others when something terrible happens - mugging, assault, rape. If only they hadn't been so stupid, it wouldn't have happened. Because that means it couldn't happen to smart, sensible us, right?

We can reduce risk but we cannot eliminate it.

OP, offer genuine sympathy and care to your friend, and feel grateful it wasn't you. There is never a right time to say I told you so (out loud, anyway).
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
4,088
"Mary,
Given your stance on this topic, will you do things similar to what he did?
Will you go full bling mode when you know you are going to a sketchy part of town?
"


No, I am extremely risk averse. But I have family and friends who are the opposite, more spontaneous and carefree (read: unthinking of consequences). Even if/when I have offered well-meaning advice to any of them in terms of travel/safety, because of the type of people some of them are, they cannot/will not incorporate my cautionary advice into their psyches. And yes, some of them are drama queens who regale me with tales of what-went-wrong. But my family/friends are important to me, and being called out as right is not important to me, especially if the proof of it is in the injury/harm to one I care about.

Maybe this friend doesn't mean that much to you, and that's why you are fixated on the advice/fault/responsibility thing. Would you feel the same if the same thing occurred but it was someone you dearly love?

Anyway, as so often happens, I fall back on Kenny's refrain: "People vary."
 

D_

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
245
Haha, Karl.
I think that happened to me.
That time, it was me who did stupid thing.
My close friend (a different one) just laughed and called me a moron (he didn't give me a heads up though).
Then we both laughed it off.
I didn't harbour any ill feeling toward him.

marymm|1457735138|4003644 said:
But my family/friends are important to me, and being called out as right is not important to me, especially if the proof of it is in the injury/harm to one I care about.

Maybe this friend doesn't mean that much to you, and that's why you are fixated on the advice/fault/responsibility thing. Would you feel the same if the same thing occurred but it was someone you dearly love?
Who said being called as right is important to me, even if the proof of it is in the injury/harm to one I care about?
I thought I was being clear.

D_|1457726860|4003545 said:
And to answer your question and respond to Monarch, this is not about ego.
It's not about waiting to say "I told you so".
Hell, if I wished that he got harmed just because he didn't listen to me/just to prove I'm right then I'm sick - who does that?

Granted, one of the problem of an online discussion is it's more difficult to judge the tone etc, your perception plays a larger role, and one can't even expect to peer into another's mind, try if one may.
So I'll lay it all out (fully prepared to be judged - because come on, who doesn't anw):
Whenever people come to you with a problem, it takes away one or more of these things from you: time, energy, positivity etc. (dare anyone say otherwise? Can anyone honestly say they don't feel drained when they are with someone who complaints all the time?)
The level of what you are willing to give away may depend on a lot of factors, level of closeness is one.
And I do realize women (usually) have a bigger well of compassion + empathy compared to men.
So if he or my other friends come with their problems, I'm willing to listen, or if they are willing to accept, help them out.
And yes, I'll be a better support if it had happened under "normal circumstances".
After all, shit happens, and I think friends need to be there for each other.
BUT if it's something happened to you due to your own stupidity AND after I specifically said so, how is it fair that you invite me to also partake in your (almost self-inflicted) misery WHILE standing on moral high ground and trying to convince me you were in the right?
If there is never a right time to say I told you so out loud, is there a right time/is it ok to say something like "I prefer not to hear about this because I've done my responsibility as a friend to inform you this might happen. Hence I don't think I have the responsibility to listen to your predicament now that it happened while it could have possibly been prevented? Can we remain friends without you making me feel guilty or inadequately good as a friend for not wanting to hear about this?"

I'm generally not a conflict avoider. So to me if a friend doesn't mean that much, I'll say I'm sorry to hear what happened and the next thing he knows I'll be "busy" every time he wants to hang out. But if a friend means anything then I'll fight for the friendship. I'll make an effort to make things work when things which display our differences like this occur because otherwise I know it will sour the friendship in the long run if I don't. I didn't feel sympathy in this circumstance and I don't think I'll be able to fake it, not to someone who matters.

If the same thing occurred to someone I dearly love (due to their stupidity, irresponsibility, carelessness etc. versus "normal circumstances") then I'll be livid. Because if I dearly love someone then most likely:
- I have done my best to help prevent it
- what happened to them will impact me and most likely some other people that I dearly love too
Choices bring consequences, often beyond to oneself. Why should anyone get a free pass? Why should we shoulder the consequences of someone else's bad choices? Are there other reasons with putting up with that (outside of family members) besides hoping that if we help shoulder it early we can nip it in the bud and thus help them to avoid an even more major #$%-up?

I'm risk averse too.
Why risk takers get to gloat and get rewarded when it pays off but still deserve all the sympathy, empathy etc. when it doesn't?
But I digress, that may be entirely different matter (or is it not?)
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
20,549
HI:

Your friend is alive and well.

Full stop.

cheers--Sharon
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
33,961
canuk-gal|1457745112|4003709 said:
HI:

Your friend is alive and well.

Full stop.

cheers--Sharon

+1 to infinity.


Sharon, sorry to be dittoing you all the time but that's what you get for being such a wise PSer. (((Hugs))).
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,670
D_...after reading your last couple of post I'm wondering if maybe this person is taking more out of your relationship then it is
worth to you and that's ok. It may be worth distancing yourself if that's what's going on. We've all had that friend that is more
of a taker but when you need time/energy from them they come up with an excuse. I'm reading a lot into the situation. I have
learned over the years to never expect people to take your advice. People generally do what they want to do in the first place. If
I see a lot of this pattern in a person then I just stop giving them advice. Why waste my breath?

For what it's worth I didnt participate in the poll because I didn't like the wording. I guess I don't feel the need to find"fault".
It happened. He didnt get hurt (right?) I'm hoping your friend has learned a valuable lesson and takes it to heart in the
future. We can only hope!
 

CJ2008

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
4,750
What do you think?
Was my friend at zero fault for what transpired?
I just stayed quiet but what I really wanted to do was to say that I do think that it was (at least partially) his fault, that he didn't have to agree with my way of thinking (just like friends and spouses don't have to always agree with each other), that we can remain friends despite this and that I have warned him before so I would appreciate not hearing him bitching about it any more.
What would you do if you were me (after the fact)?
Could we have remained friends if I did what I had wanted to do?
I don't think your friend was at zero fault for what transpired.

If he put himself in an area known to be unsafe and was not super diligent (jewelry, intoxicated, etc.) then he is partially at fault.

However of course he could have done ALL the right things and still have gotten mugged.

I had not read your full post I mostly read other responses and from those I had gathered - or it seemed - that you had been really harsh with this friend afterwards.

I think the only thing that stands out to me as a little bit "off" is that you wanted to say "that we can remain friends."

It doesn't sound to me like a feeling or "judgment" appropriate to the behavior unless he is constantly asking you for advice on things, ignores it, and then complains about the consequences and now you're fed up so this was the last straw.

But all of us at some point or another ask for advice and then do what we think we should do.

In most circumstances, I feel flattered when anyone asks me for advice - and I do expect that they'll consider it (if it makes even an inkling of sense to them otherwise they can discard right away as it may be way off) but I don't expect that they'll take it. However - if I notice a pattern of frequently asking and then ignoring (where I feel like it's a lot of time and drain on my energy) or asking and then ignoring and complaining after, I would either stop giving the advice, or tell them not to complain to me any more.

So I think the jump to "we can remain friends" either comes from him trying your patience in other ways or it may be that you expect people to take your advice whenever you give it (not saying this is what you do and I have not read the rest of your responses but it is the other alternative that comes to my mind when I try to be objective which I always try to do).

Which now has me wondering, had he asked you for advice in the first place? (sorry if you answered this somewhere else in the thread)

As far as if you said what you wanted/had spoken up could you have remained friends depends a so many things...the thing is even if you were 100% right - he had asked you for advice and ignored it, let's say - getting mugged must be a pretty traumatic experience (plus the broken ribs so there was physical injury, pain, etc.) so I don't think it's the "right situation" to say "I told you so" unless it was said and driven in the gentlest most compassionate of ways. It's like the compassion and gladness that he's ok has to be driving force behind that discussion not the need to show who was right, you know?
 
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