Found out I'm color sensitive...help needed (again)

[hawk25]

Hey everyone, first I wanted to thank everyone who helped me find a stone in my last 2 threads. I've been thinking more about color lately, and despite buying 0.716 I color ACA stone (hasn't been shipped), I decided to go to a jeweler today and look at colors in more depth. They showed me GIA-3x and HOF stones (wow those are pricey!), and I realized I'm a lot more color sensitive than I thought. The I colored stones have too much warmth for my liking, so I think I'd have to go to a G or above. Anybody want to help a new PSer...again ?

Budget: $2700ish
Preferred Size: The last one was a 0.716ct, but I couldn't honestly see the difference between a 0.7 and 0.60 at the jewelers without them side by side, so preferably around 0.62-0.70ct
Vendor: WF since I'm using their Legato Pave setting
Color: G or above

I'd appreciate any help, especially with vetting the ES against the ACAs

If completely eye clean, I've been thinking of this one:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896294.htm

 

[JulieN]

you should ask your gf what she prefers. for the vast majority of people, a .7 ideal round in I color is totally fine, and I don't think you should go smaller because you can see color.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'd go up to H color, but I wouldn't sacrifice the size.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2794547.htm

 

[hawk25]

Ah the downsides of trying to keep it a surprise . It sounds weird, but she doesn't want any input on the stone itself, as according to her it "takes away from the moment". I know she's much better than me at sifting through "white" paint swatches (based on the hours spent at the Home Depot paint section lol), and she noticed the difference of shades much faster than I ever could. She also works in a lab, so I think she's really attentive to fine details.

Not much to infer on, I know. But either way I think she has a slightly better eye than I do.

Edit: I forgot to add that I'm not concerned with the face up color of the stones, but rather the side view, where it shows the color the most. The legato head does leave it open for viewing quite a bit, and when I had the I color stone in a diamond holder (that claw holder) and saw it from the angle she's see it normally, it was really warm.

 

[hawk25]

DS, I hate to admit it but I think that stone's pushing the budget too far.

I remember you were a fan of this one, but I thought that you would have to go 2 color grades higher to notice a difference
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896295.htm

 

[bunnycat]

You might check and see if there's any that have some fluorescence in them. I had an H with faint fluor that seemed tinted to me and feared I was color sensitive and would have to go up to at least G and now I have an I with medium fluor and it looks great! Couldn't care less about the very slight extra tint with the fluor added in there! Just a thought!

Also, a GIA XXX is not necessarily going to be as well cut as a branded AGS0 stone, and so if you saw GIAXXX's that may have been steep or deep, they can show more color...just another thought....Will WF let you exchange it if you get it in and decide there is too much tint but perhaps let you see it first? I know you can have it shipped to look at and then ship it back for setting (at least you can through Brian Gavin).

 

[heididdl]

GOG has a special its an H but otherwise gorgous its the only one in their SPECIAL
round 0.71ct H VVS1 $3,632

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?certNum=-&resultsColumns=268435471

 

[bunnycat]

DS, I hate to admit it but I think that stone's pushing the budget too far.

I remember you were a fan of this one, but I thought that you would have to go 2 color grades higher to notice a difference
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896295.htm

I think that may depend a little. As far as I have read, "I" is the smallest color range in the GIA color system, so if you went up to H you could have a lower H that was closer to I or a higher H that was closer to G and perhaps could see a difference. I'd love to know how wide the color ranges are, but can't find any info out there.

Like is it...

D--E---F---G----H---I--J-------K------ or something????

 

[hawk25]

I think that may depend a little. As far as I have read, "I" is the smallest color range in the GIA color system, so if you went up to H you could have a lower H that was closer to I or a higher H that was closer to G and perhaps could see a difference. I'd love to know how wide the color ranges are, but can't find any info out there.

Like is it...

D--E---F---G----H---I--J-------K------ or something????

I'd be interested in finding out the ranges too. I wonder if I could ask the WF gemologists if it was a high or low H, but a little worried they would be like "ugh those PSers... " lol. I think I might have to take your suggestion in getting them to ship the stone, then I'll ship it back to be set if I'm happy, but not with the I color stone I originally bought. I doubt there's much difference in HOF and ACA (other than the price), so what I saw today is generally what I'll get.

Just had a talk with my girlfriend, and she didn't know there were different color grades. She gave me a look that said she'd be a little disappointed if the color was "off".

 

[diamondloveaffair]

the color ranges (tolerance) for each note is the same. I can say this only for GIA's grading system because I am familiar with it.

D--E--F--G--H--I--J--K--L

For other labs, I would assume they follow similar guidelines.

 

[Dancing Fire]

a nice well cut,eye clean G SI1 should do the trick..

 

[bunnycat]

the color ranges (tolerance) for each note is the same. I can say this only for GIA's grading system because I am familiar with it.

D--E--F--G--H--I--J--K--L

For other labs, I would assume they follow similar guidelines.

I found this informations that suggests the color bands get wider as they go down the scale (which is kind of what I would expect), but disagrees with the I being a short range on the scale...

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/how-evaluate-fancy-vivid-yellow-diamond

 

[bunnycat]

a nice well cut,eye clean G SI1 should do the trick..

There's just not much in WF inventory in his size/budget at the moment. I think it's worth giving the I a chance, especially if it can be sent back for something else.

 

[JulieN]

I'm probably not going to convince you, but "off white" doesn't happen until K color. KLM are "faint yellow" or "faint tint" if it is not yellow. Maybe you should have WF call in a G to avoid the ACA premium.

I have never heard that I has a tighter range than H color. It doesn't make sense.

 

[hawk25]

I'm probably not going to convince you, but "off white" doesn't happen until K color. KLM are "faint yellow" or "faint tint" if it is not yellow. Maybe you should have WF call in a G to avoid the ACA premium.

I know its not "off white", I just didn't know how else to explain it to her. When I told her it would be 'warm', she gave me this look.

Maybe call it the newbie-hesitation, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with buying from their virtual selection. Kinda pushes the online purchase hesitation over the edge, if that makes any sense?

 

[bunnycat]

I'm probably not going to convince you, but "off white" doesn't happen until K color. KLM are "faint yellow" or "faint tint" if it is not yellow. Maybe you should have WF call in a G to avoid the ACA premium.

I know its not "off white", I just didn't know how else to explain it to her. When I told her it would be 'warm', she gave me this look.

Maybe call it the newbie-hesitation, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with buying from their virtual selection. Kinda pushes the online purchase hesitation over the edge, if that makes any sense?

Virtual selection may also not be part of their upgrade policy.

 

[hawk25]

a nice well cut,eye clean G SI1 should do the trick..

There's just not much in WF inventory in his size/budget at the moment. I think it's worth giving the I a chance, especially if it can be sent back for something else.

You might be right, though I'm in Canada so I'll have to deal with the reclaiming my taxes paid dance with Canadian Customs...something I'm not looking very forward to

 

[beacherbeacher]

The setting can also make a difference (for example: an "I" stone in a yellow or white gold setting *may* appear 'whiter' than if it were in a platinum setting.) In a lot of cases H/I stones are fairly white, and the color (if at all) would be the most discernible when placed next to a stone of a higher color grade (and how often will that really happen?)

But I get it. I'm super color sensitive, I can pick up color in G / H /I etc, so I went with an E. HOWEVER, some people like (and prefer) their stone with a little "warmth" to them, and your future fiance may prefer that look on her hand. Color is entirely subjective.

For fun, have you or your gf taken this color sensitivity test? It won't tell you if/how you (or her) prefer color, but rather informs you of your sensitivity (hence, she may end up super sensitive, like you, or not sensitive at all.)

http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?pageid=77&lang=en

 

[bunnycat]

a nice well cut,eye clean G SI1 should do the trick..

There's just not much in WF inventory in his size/budget at the moment. I think it's worth giving the I a chance, especially if it can be sent back for something else.

You might be right, though I'm in Canada so I'll have to deal with the reclaiming my taxes paid dance with Canadian Customs...something I'm not looking very forward to

ouch.

 

[hawk25]

The setting can also make a difference (for example: an "I" stone in a yellow or white gold setting *may* appear 'whiter' than if it were in a platinum setting.) In a lot of cases H/I stones are fairly white, and the color (if at all) would be the most discernible when placed next to a stone of a higher color grade (and how often will that really happen?)

But I get it. I'm super color sensitive, I can pick up color in G / H /I etc, so I went with an E. HOWEVER, some people like (and prefer) their stone with a little "warmth" to them, and your future fiance may prefer that look on her hand. Color is entirely subjective.

For fun, have you or your gf taken this color sensitivity test? It won't tell you if/how you (or her) prefer color, but rather informs you of your sensitivity (hence, she may end up super sensitive, like you, or not sensitive at all.)

http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?pageid=77&lang=en

Hah I actually saw that test a few days ago. I got a 12, except I have no idea how good that is or not. My eyes killed after focusing on the screen so intently lol. I was going to ask PS whether it had any merit but thought I would be ridiculed for bringing it up

The setting would be platinum. When I was looking at the stones in the store, they were in those silver diamond holders with 4 prongs, so I thought that might be comparable to it being in a setting.

 

[bunnycat]

The setting can also make a difference (for example: an "I" stone in a yellow or white gold setting *may* appear 'whiter' than if it were in a platinum setting.) In a lot of cases H/I stones are fairly white, and the color (if at all) would be the most discernible when placed next to a stone of a higher color grade (and how often will that really happen?)

But I get it. I'm super color sensitive, I can pick up color in G / H /I etc, so I went with an E. HOWEVER, some people like (and prefer) their stone with a little "warmth" to them, and your future fiance may prefer that look on her hand. Color is entirely subjective.

For fun, have you or your gf taken this color sensitivity test? It won't tell you if/how you (or her) prefer color, but rather informs you of your sensitivity (hence, she may end up super sensitive, like you, or not sensitive at all.)

http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?pageid=77&lang=en

Hah I actually saw that test a few days ago. I got a 12, except I have no idea how good that is or not. My eyes killed after focusing on the screen so intently lol. I was going to ask PS whether it had any merit but thought I would be ridiculed for bringing it up

The setting would be platinum. When I was looking at the stones in the store, they were in those silver diamond holders with 4 prongs, so I thought that might be comparable to it being in a setting.

One thing that I think is hard to do is actually compare color under jewelry store lighting. There's just so much interference from the overhead spots. Would you be able to go look at them near a window in something more like natural lighting to see how you feel?

PS- I took that color test to. Got something like a 12 the first time while I was tired, came back and took it again when I was more awake and got something like an 8. Hubs however, who is almost completely color blind and made something like a 500 on that test (I am so mean!) can see the difference between an E F and G....go figure....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

DS, I hate to admit it but I think that stone's pushing the budget too far.

I remember you were a fan of this one, but I thought that you would have to go 2 color grades higher to notice a difference
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896295.htm

Yes, that is a great one! I can see color in some I color stones and in J color. But I consider G and H at the top end of near-colorless and I would not hesitate to buy H color. I am picky about color and have decided against one I color stone recently but have found a higher I color stone that I am probably buying. So to me, H is not really visibly tinted from the side unless you are holding it next to a D or E.

 

[hawk25]

One thing that I think is hard to do is actually compare color under jewelry store lighting. There's just so much interference from the overhead spots. Would you be able to go look at them near a window in something more like natural lighting to see how you feel?

PS- I took that color test to. Got something like a 12 the first time while I was tired, came back and took it again when I was more awake and got something like an 8. Hubs however, who is almost completely color blind and made something like a 500 on that test (I am so mean!) can see the difference between an E F and G....go figure....

I spent over an hour with the SA today looking at stones, I felt bad for taking so much of her time over a definite no sale. I wish I thought of bringing it to the window, but it was one of those larger stores where someone had to scan their fingerprint to let me in the showroom, so I didn't want to move from the desk lol.

Would jewelry store spotlighting make it easier or harder to see color? Or I guess it depends on the individual store and the bulbs they use...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Jewelry store lighting makes it very difficult to see color. I can see why you don't want to take the chance on the I color one considering the shipping complications, but I'd go with the H.

 

[diamondloveaffair]

the color ranges (tolerance) for each note is the same. I can say this only for GIA's grading system because I am familiar with it.

D--E--F--G--H--I--J--K--L

For other labs, I would assume they follow similar guidelines.

I found this informations that suggests the color bands get wider as they go down the scale (which is kind of what I would expect), but disagrees with the I being a short range on the scale...

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/how-evaluate-fancy-vivid-yellow-diamond

That was an analogy drawn in the article. It doesn't reflect whether GIA does it this manner.

Quoted from official GIA sources:

"The GIA D-to-Z
scale is the
industry standard
for color-grading
diamonds. Each
letter represents
a narrow range of
color based on a
diamond’s tone
and saturation."

I recently talked to GIA Hong Kong with some queries on this topic itself. When setting up the color master stone standards years ago, I was told that they used scientific methods to determine the saturation of the color for a particular grade. This quantifiable increase in color saturation range is the same for D-E or from I-J.

This is one of the ways they maintain a consistent way of grading and it made sense to me. If you think about it, if they allowed varying tolerances for each different color letter, it will cause HUGE grading discrepancies across the board.

For all you know, I could be wrong or the guys at GIA fed me the wrong information.

 

[hawk25]

DS, I hate to admit it but I think that stone's pushing the budget too far.

I remember you were a fan of this one, but I thought that you would have to go 2 color grades higher to notice a difference
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896295.htm

Yes, that is a great one! I can see color in some I color stones and in J color. But I consider G and H at the top end of near-colorless and I would not hesitate to buy H color. I am picky about color and have decided against one I color stone recently but have found a higher I color stone that I am probably buying. So to me, H is not really visibly tinted from the side unless you are holding it next to a D or E.

Wow, I know I'm a newbie but I still found that PS website downtime frustrating, so I can't imagine you PS regulars lol.

I have a question for DS (or rather anyone who wouldn't mind chiming in), and sorry for being such a pest . I have good faith in the H VS2 you suggested and was about to switch to it, but I got an email from WF saying that the F SI1 in the first post is completely eye clean.

This might be for more educational purposes (and my own curiosity) than anything, but what makes the 0.655 H VS2 better than the 0.636 F SI1? The size difference is 0.07, which I can't imagine mattering IRL, although I am already downgrading the size already as is. Is it because the table on the F SI1 is a bit too large? Or is it because the general consensus is that F color isn't worth the extra cost (except in this case I'd be saving money with it)?

Here are the two stones:
0.655H VS2: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896295.htm
0.636F SI1: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2896294.htm

 

[TC1987]

the color ranges (tolerance) for each note is the same. I can say this only for GIA's grading system because I am familiar with it.

D--E--F--G--H--I--J--K--L

For other labs, I would assume they follow similar guidelines.

It didn't used to be. Did GIA change it? We have loads of old posts on here that say the colorless D & E are the narrowest, then the near-colorless F-G-H, I is the narrowest band, and the bands start getting broader as you hit J and lower. Not much discussion on anything past J, though.
But a change by GIA might explain why the AGS color grading is suddenly "soft," haha.