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found clouds/inclusion tt r not present in the plot.

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Stone-Cold is saying it's possible that the K will get darker as you bring your head close to it; based on the 40.2 PA.

ETA - I was writing this as SC posted him's better explanation of him.

In a lot of conventional cases I would agree, but that 56/40.2/37.0 combo has my attention. That could be a pretty happening stone, depending on a number of particulars. What are the lower half measurements? (probably either 70, 75 or 80%).

Also - with the "cotton candy" reference reminded me of twinning wisps (twisting together of pinpoints, fractures, or clouds within a twinning plane). Any chance there are twinning wisps in the diamond that comment was made about?


 
Pixie we all need to bear in mind as you are on such a tight budget and want a big stone for it, that perfection is not going to be possible so we need to look at all your selections differently to someone who wants a perfect cut and can pay for it. We need to try to help you decide which is the most promising out of the diamonds you show us as there are likely to be issues for that size and budget, our job is to try to find out which is the lesser of the various ''evils'' so we can help you find a diamond which might not be perfect on paper, but might do the job nicely for you.
 
WOH, Stone cold u are so so so technical... its very very very physics and mathematical... i''m losing it..

so basically the 37 crown angle has pro of having more fire but less spread? so it will be nice to have a high fire stone as it catches attention... pardon me but does fire means more sparkling??

Woh... John u are so so so so sharp. Yes the cert says "Twining wisps, additional clouds and a brown patch of color are not shown."

but when brought to normal light, it is not obvious.

i''m attracted to both diamonds and i thought the larger spread would be better, so in terms of more eye catching, bling bling...will be the 37 degrees? thanks...
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:04:34 AM
Author: DiamondPixie
WOH, Stone cold u are so so so technical... its very very very physics and mathematical... i'm losing it..

so basically the 37 crown angle has pro of having more fire but less spread? so it will be nice to have a high fire stone as it catches attention... pardon me but does fire means more sparkling??

Woh... John u are so so so so sharp. Yes the cert says 'Twining wisps, additional clouds and a brown patch of color are not shown.'

but when brought to normal light, it is not obvious.

i'm attracted to both diamonds and i thought the larger spread would be better, so in terms of more eye catching, bling bling...will be the 37 degrees? thanks...
Click to expand...
Pixie don't worry, we can help you through this in a very simple way and we don't want to scare you with techical info! It is easy to forget when attempting to assist and offer advice that not everyone wants technical explanations, we can get you through this in a way which is easy for you to understand.

Which out of the two last diamonds do you like best, which one do you prefer?

Fire is just coloured light, the rainbow colours of red, blues and greens you can see popping out of the diamond if the light is right. The term sparkle covers fire ( coloured light), brilliance ( usually white light) and scintillation which can be seen when the diamond and or the wearer moves. This all makes up the "bling bling" look.

Pixie, obstruction is quite simply this. If you have a diamond on a ring on your hand which has shallower angles as an example, these stones can darken when you bend over the diamond on your hand to admire it for example. This is because as you bend over the diamond to look at it closely, the light to the diamond which makes it ' bling' gets blocked by your head or body. This is simple obstruction, all it is - nothing really technical. This could be the case with the diamonds you posted earlier on the other page, as they have shallower angles, there is a possibility that this could happen.

Now, for all we say about obstruction here, like I said we aren't going to get perfection on your budget - something will have to give. I would rather have a diamond which might show obstruction than a fish eye any day of the week. The second diamond has a much steeper crown angle which might help balance the shallow pavilion, so assuming a number of other factors are ok with the diamond it might be a good looking stone. The thing to do is to look at it in person, bend over the diamond to see if it darkens and if so, if it bothers you. If not then as one of our pioneering prosumers said a long time ago, you don't walk around with your head attached to the diamond
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, so if a stone does show obstruction in some cases, then it might not be a huge deal to you.
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:03:19 AM
Author: Lorelei
Pixie we all need to bear in mind as you are on such a tight budget and want a big stone for it, that perfection is not going to be possible so we need to look at all your selections differently to someone who wants a perfect cut and can pay for it. We need to try to help you decide which is the most promising out of the diamonds you show us as there are likely to be issues for that size and budget, our job is to try to find out which is the lesser of the various ''evils'' so we can help you find a diamond which might not be perfect on paper, but might do the job nicely for you.
Click to expand...

yeap Lorelei... i guess you are right... i''m a real novice when it comes to diamonds. i had a hard time digesting it. i have to say that i was very naive and many years back initially i didnt know that a well cut 0.3 is that expensive, i thought..so small... and when i look at the price. i nearly fainted, the salesperson look down on me
15.gif
because of my naive comments...

now with pricescope, i have a better concept and found some jewelers that stock some diamonds that are not very expensive... however they did say... with the price i pay, do not expect a HOF or a AGSO kind of diamond, what they offer of course diamonds with certain oddity, it is how far i can except...

but the comments on 37 angle intrigues me... something new about this point, i never heard the jeweler talking about it!
37.gif
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:13:42 AM
Author: DiamondPixie




Date: 6/18/2009 10:03:19 AM
Author: Lorelei
Pixie we all need to bear in mind as you are on such a tight budget and want a big stone for it, that perfection is not going to be possible so we need to look at all your selections differently to someone who wants a perfect cut and can pay for it. We need to try to help you decide which is the most promising out of the diamonds you show us as there are likely to be issues for that size and budget, our job is to try to find out which is the lesser of the various 'evils' so we can help you find a diamond which might not be perfect on paper, but might do the job nicely for you.
Click to expand...

yeap Lorelei... i guess you are right... i'm a real novice when it comes to diamonds. i had a hard time digesting it. i have to say that i was very naive and many years back initially i didnt know that a well cut 0.3 is that expensive, i thought..so small... and when i look at the price. i nearly fainted, the salesperson look down on me
15.gif
because of my naive comments...

now with pricescope, i have a better concept and found some jewelers that stock some diamonds that are not very expensive... however they did say... with the price i pay, do not expect a HOF or a AGSO kind of diamond, what they offer of course diamonds with certain oddity, it is how far i can except...

but the comments on 37 angle intrigues me... something new about this point, i never heard the jeweler talking about it!
37.gif
Click to expand...
What John was saying earlier about this diamond, is that the far steeper crown angle might offset the shallow pavilion assuming the lower girdle facets of the diamond are within good range ( don't worry about that part at the moment!) Like a pair of old fashioned weighing scales which I will use as an explanation in this case.

Imagine the scales with 5 pound weights either side. On one side we have a single very heavy weight, on the other lots of lighter ones but they balance each other well. Same with crown and pavilion angles, with a shallow pavilion angle you need a much steeper crown angle to balance it - a bit of give here and a bit of take there can strike a balance. Thus it could be with that diamond. Although the measurements are a bit unorthodox there is a possiblity that they might be a good fit and produce a good looking diamond.

The easiest thing would be when you go back to the jeweller, get all the info off the report or photocopy it and report back, get the lower girdle facet percents and stars which will be on the diamond diagram to the right.
 
Defintely look into the 37 degree stone. :P

Do you have the GIA report number for that?
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:13:42 AM
Author: DiamondPixie

Date: 6/18/2009 10:03:19 AM
Author: Lorelei
Pixie we all need to bear in mind as you are on such a tight budget and want a big stone for it, that perfection is not going to be possible so we need to look at all your selections differently to someone who wants a perfect cut and can pay for it. We need to try to help you decide which is the most promising out of the diamonds you show us as there are likely to be issues for that size and budget, our job is to try to find out which is the lesser of the various ''evils'' so we can help you find a diamond which might not be perfect on paper, but might do the job nicely for you.
Click to expand...

yeap Lorelei... i guess you are right... i''m a real novice when it comes to diamonds. i had a hard time digesting it. i have to say that i was very naive and many years back initially i didnt know that a well cut 0.3 is that expensive, i thought..so small... and when i look at the price. i nearly fainted, the salesperson look down on me
15.gif
because of my naive comments...

now with pricescope, i have a better concept and found some jewelers that stock some diamonds that are not very expensive... however they did say... with the price i pay, do not expect a HOF or a AGSO kind of diamond, what they offer of course diamonds with certain oddity, it is how far i can except...

but the comments on 37 angle intrigues me... something new about this point, i never heard the jeweler talking about it!
37.gif
Click to expand...
Hey - don''t you let that bother you one bit!!! You now know more than many who stand behind jewellery counters and are learning more all the time, be proud my dear!!!
 
i do not have the cert number but i took down all the details instead...

crown angle 37
star length 50%
lower half 80%

does this look ok? the star length of the other diamond is also the same. what do these 2 number % mean? thanks
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:19:41 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Do you have the GIA report number for that?
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Yes - that will tell us a number of details.

I think the consumer posters are giving you excellent advice. It''s not necessary for the diamond to pass every little test and trick as long as it''s beautiful to you and fairly priced.

I''ve seen some nicely cut diamonds near the basic proportions of that K. If the lower halves and optical symmetry are not a train wreck it could be worthy and have somewhat different character than many RBs walking the planet.

Here are ASET simulations for those broad proportions, below. The reason I ask about lower halves is because it could make a large difference in the issue SC and Lorelei explained (obstruction). If the pavilion mains are too wide (see image on right) it''s possible you could have under-table darkness in close-up viewing.

56-402-370-80-70lh.jpg
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:34:03 AM
Author: DiamondPixie
i do not have the cert number but i took down all the details instead...

crown angle 37
star length 50%
lower half 80%

does this look ok? the star length of the other diamond is also the same. what do these 2 number % mean? thanks
Click to expand...
Cool. The image on the left above was simulated with 80% lower halves.
 
John, how wide is too wide?
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:34:03 AM
Author: DiamondPixie
i do not have the cert number but i took down all the details instead...

crown angle 37
star length 50%
lower half 80%

does this look ok? the star length of the other diamond is also the same. what do these 2 number % mean? thanks
Click to expand...
Yes in fact the LGF measurements would really help in this case and could help minimize obstruction.

The star length measurements and lower halves mean star and lower girdle facets of a diamond and their values.
 
Date: 6/18/2009 10:49:16 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
John, how wide is too wide?
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Image on the right was 70% LH. In general for this combo high 70s to 80ish can balance mains and LH to avoid contrast/obstruction problems.

The thing is, a lot of this will depend on cut consistency. If the optical sym on this diamond is gnarly and snaggletoothed the averages (for PA, CA and LH) don''t mean much. No way for us to know short of actual imagery.
 
Pixie, here is a diagram which shows you exactly where the star and lower girdle facets are located on a diamond.

Image from Whiteflash.

lgfwf.gif
 
Date: 6/18/2009 9:39:27 AM
Author: DiamondPixie
Oh no ellen... are these that bad? i thought they scored well in the HCA? they are below 2... please do explain to me what is wrong with these 2 stones? i've not committed anything yet... so i'm still waiting around... please do explain, are the angles wrong??? thanks.
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pixie, you have gotten a lot of good advice. If I had to pick one of these, it would be the K. But as John points out, we have no real idea on the cut, so it could be nice for an FIC (Fiery Ideal Cut), or not. We have no way of knowing, hence, that's why I wasn't jumping up and down over it. And I really don't care for the other, because besides obstruction, the "sparkle factor" may not be as nice either.

Having said all that, I will readily admit I have become a Cut snob, and have a harder time recommending stones that are this questionable. So I may not be the best one to advise.
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You are getting great info here from the others though!
 
Woh... i didnt know the lower facets make such an impact. so the star length and the lower facets make up the H&A images (???)

the ASET on the left looks good. the one on the right has fat arrows. does fat arrows mean more fire???

the left or right is better?
 
left is much better.
 
now please correct if i am wrong.

J diamond has obstruction issues, so when i have it as a ring, it will be dark, it will look better as pendant when it is not seen close up???

K diamond is better as a ring as it has a high crown angle that gives it more fire...but what about the arrows? it has a LH of 80%, the arrows are not that fat...so i should choose the K diamond?

if i chose the K diamond, can i set it in a halo? will it loo yellow? thanks.
 
Yes to Q1.

Q2, arrows are just nice, assuming good optical symm. How close is the simulated image from what you are seeing?

Set in a halo, with lower color melee, should not be too obvious. 2 color grade difference is within tolerable limit for side stones.
 
Date: 6/18/2009 11:23:28 AM
Author: DiamondPixie
now please correct if i am wrong.

J diamond has obstruction issues, so when i have it as a ring, it will be dark, it will look better as pendant when it is not seen close up???

K diamond is better as a ring as it has a high crown angle that gives it more fire...but what about the arrows? it has a LH of 80%, the arrows are not that fat...so i should choose the K diamond?

if i chose the K diamond, can i set it in a halo? will it loo yellow? thanks.
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You have got it. The thinner arrows can help lessen any potential obstruction as they won't interfere as much as thicker ones would if that makes sense.

You might notice a slight difference with halo stones unless you can keep them within 2 colour grades, I would suggest I or J colour melee.

Out of the two from the info we have the K diamond would be your best choice Pixie.
 
Date: 6/18/2009 11:08:39 AM
Author: Ellen
pixie, you have gotten a lot of good advice. If I had to pick one of these, it would be the K. But as John points out, we have no real idea on the cut, so it could be nice for an FIC (Fiery Ideal Cut), or not. We have no way of knowing, hence, that's why I wasn't jumping up and down over it. And I really don't care for the other, because besides obstruction, the 'sparkle factor' may not be as nice either.

Having said all that, I will readily admit I have become a Cut snob, and have a harder time recommending stones that are this questionable. So I may not be the best one to advise.
5.gif
You are getting great info here from the others though!
Click to expand...
I'm going to support Ellen's sentiment here. While we can guess all day the bottom line is that we're going from basic numbers on both diamonds without knowing cut precision/consistency.

From the puzzle pieces you have provided I'd say the K has more potential - you have heard us correctly there. But the only way I, Ellen, SC or Lorelei (or anyone) could predict anything further is to see an image like ASET - and then it would only be a more accurate prediction.

The only way to verify the potential we've put forward (and what it implies to us, individually) is to see the diamond in person. You have a greater advantage than any of us since you can see it. What we think is not nearly as important as what you think. When all of the analytic posts have fallen away, the diamond is part of your daily life and you have forgotten your friends at Pricescope (boo-hoo)
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- is it what you are looking for, and do you find it fairly priced?
 
oh so i guess i will get diamond K??.. or should i wait around? of just be realistic and get something that is truly in my budget...
 
Date: 6/18/2009 11:47:19 AM
Author: DiamondPixie
oh so i guess i will get diamond K??.. or should i wait around? of just be realistic and get something that is truly in my budget...
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Pixie only you know the answer to that one. From the info we have it might be a good diamond but there is no way we can really tell, all we can do is make an educated guess in all cases without seeing the actual diamond or images representative of it that a diamond might be ok.

It also depends on whether you are willing to take a chance on a bigger diamond that it might not be the most perfect stone, or whether you want to take a different path of going smaller with a proven cut. No way is wrong, all you can do is go with the best choice for you.

For me, size always wins, so I would not want a smaller perfect diamond as I have other priorities. I have stone which is huge, not perfectly cut but it has proven proportions and it makes me very happy whereas smaller and ' better' would not. So think carefully and go with what feels right. So I can truly relate to your dilemma as I know how it feels to have to make decisions with diamonds which are more on the edge, I have actually been in your shoes so I can easily understand. Buying a diamond doesn't always come down to technology and facts and figures and here buyers have all types of requirements. The challenge for us is to be able to help each person, tailor our advice so it helps each poster in such a way that they can understand and relate to and bear in mind that one type of diamond does not fit all. As I like to say, sometimes the imperfect is a perfect choice for someone.
 
As John said, we can''t tell further unless you supply us with some images.

Just see if it appeals to you.

Good luck. :)
 
THANK YOU ALL SO SO SO MUCH for your kind advice and information. I agree with you Lorelei, you hit the right point. I''ve not committed to anything yet and i feel that i should really go out and view more other diamonds. Those smaller and proven cuts and see if i can accept them. I love size and i agree that getting a larger and near the edge proportion diamond may work out. but i think i need time... i am too undecisive...but thanks guys for the new insights.

i thought HCA score within 0-2 are ok buys, i didnt know the rest of the numbers make so much impact!!
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Happy hunting. :)
 
Date: 6/18/2009 12:05:09 PM
Author: DiamondPixie
THANK YOU ALL SO SO SO MUCH for your kind advice and information. I agree with you Lorelei, you hit the right point. I''ve not committed to anything yet and i feel that i should really go out and view more other diamonds. Those smaller and proven cuts and see if i can accept them. I love size and i agree that getting a larger and near the edge proportion diamond may work out. but i think i need time... i am too undecisive...but thanks guys for the new insights.

i thought HCA score within 0-2 are ok buys, i didnt know the rest of the numbers make so much impact!!
3.gif
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Really glad to have been of help to you Pixie, I want you to get a wonderful diamond!

Also if you did consider buying online, you could go with a vendor who has a trade in policy and as finances permit upgrade that way, in time you could have a MAMMOTH rock!
 
Good luck pixie!

btw, something you said earlier is making me wonder. Do any of the jewelers over there carry AGS0 stones, do you know?
 
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