For those who chose not to have children

[Matata]

but let’s call a spade a spade.

You are underestimating the intelligence of the women here if you think they aren't aware of the range of options they have to contribute to a healthier planet. You're making unfair assumptions. I've found that women who don't want to have children tend to have a broad range of reasons in their arsenal as defense against those who question and criticize their motivation, including contributing to a healthier planet. That reason is more intelligently arrived at than those who have kids because they 1) think they'll be good parents, 2) don't want to be alone when they're old, 3) think their offspring will be uber special, 4) feel the biological imperative to ensure their gene pool continues. That last one is, imo and in agreement with science, the prime motivator to reproduce. There is a conceit in humans that leads to their desire to leave something of themselves behind after they die, a comfort, I think, in knowing that some part of themselves survives death.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

to all who don't want kids
doesn't it get up your nose when people say
awwwww you'll change your mind

how would it be if we said to a pregnent mom, awwww you'll change your mind !

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I have read every single post in this thread. On page four I suddenly said to myself. What post is the odd man out. You know those tests we have all had to take in life, I think IQ, where it asks which picture does not belong. which triangle is different?, that sort of test. Well, thats how red-spinals post strikes me. She needs to prove that having children is the way to go. My God, just the thing that the makes life harder for those that may wish to choose no children.
Talk about butting in. Really annoys me. This is a good thread. to be usurped by those that must prove their way is right.

Annette

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i had a difficult mother, but one thing i will say for her is she never once asked when she was getting grandchildren (some days she could be a good mum)

but she remembered the extreme pressure she felt in the mid '60's up until i was born in '71 about when was a baby coming ?
my parents wanted to provide financial security for any future baby first and formost, and then when they wanted to try, it was't so easy
in our childhod my sister and i had everything we needed and then some (note please not everything we wanted)

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

you know i have some pretty strong opinions on this topic but im going to bow out of this thread
im here to be friendly and for a bit of company, check out some awsome bling, not fall out with nice people

this topic is kinda becoming like religion and politics

each to their own

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

All I can say on this it that I have SEVERAL friends who have chosen not to have children. I do not view them negatively AT ALL. I am 36. If nothing else I'm happy that they realized it and are living the lives that THEY wanted to live. Done and done.

 

[nala]

Hi,

I have read every single post in this thread. On page four I suddenly said to myself. What post is the odd man out. You know those tests we have all had to take in life, I think IQ, where it asks which picture does not belong. which triangle is different?, that sort of test. Well, thats how red-spinals post strikes me. She needs to prove that having children is the way to go. My God, just the thing that the makes life harder for those that may wish to choose no children.
Talk about butting in. Really annoys me. This is a good thread. to be usurped by those that must prove their way is right.

Annette

Did you mean @theredspinel

 

[theredspinel]

Hi,

I have read every single post in this thread. On page four I suddenly said to myself. What post is the odd man out. You know those tests we have all had to take in life, I think IQ, where it asks which picture does not belong. which triangle is different?, that sort of test. Well, thats how red-spinals post strikes me. She needs to prove that having children is the way to go. My God, just the thing that the makes life harder for those that may wish to choose no children.
Talk about butting in. Really annoys me. This is a good thread. to be usurped by those that must prove their way is right.

Annette

WOW. Imagine not being able to read or handle a different perspective to your own. Imagine being so threatened by reading an opposing perspective you feel the need to try and shut it down, all the whilst being rude, judgemental, gate keeping a discussion, and believing all beliefs need to be aligned to “belong”.

How rude and what unfortunate insecurity. If you’d like to reread my posts smitcompton the second time around, you might notice me saying to op she doesn’t sound like she wants kids and that’s PERFECTLY FINE. Caps so it’s noticeable enough

The only person here trying to convince anyone of anything as far as I can see was @nala trying to convince me I had no control over my life

To end, because I have no interest in this little spit fight: The greatest sign of an intelligent mind is being able to appreciate an opposing point of view and it’s merits whilst not agreeing with it.

 

[Sprinkles&Stones]

you know i have some pretty strong opinions on this topic but im going to bow out of this thread
im here to be friendly and for a bit of company, check out some awsome bling, not fall out with nice people

this topic is kinda becoming like religion and politics

each to their own

It was never my intent to start anything negative, I've really appreciated everyone's unique perspectives! I truly appreciate everyone chiming in! I thought this was a really open discussion

 

[kenny]

You are underestimating the intelligence of the women here if you think they aren't aware of the range of options they have to contribute to a healthier planet. You're making unfair assumptions. I've found that women who don't want to have children tend to have a broad range of reasons in their arsenal as defense against those who question and criticize their motivation, including contributing to a healthier planet. That reason is more intelligently arrived at than those who have kids because they 1) think they'll be good parents, 2) don't want to be alone when they're old, 3) think their offspring will be uber special, 4) feel the biological imperative to ensure their gene pool continues. That last one is, imo and in agreement with science, the prime motivator to reproduce. There is a conceit in humans that leads to their desire to leave something of themselves behind after they die, a comfort, I think, in knowing that some part of themselves survives death.

Thank you!
+1,000

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This is not to stir the pot but I genuinely wonder how many people with children (young ones especially) would choose differently had they known their children would grow up in a pandemic.

 

[Sprinkles&Stones]

This is not to stir the pot but I genuinely wonder how many people with children (young ones especially) would choose differently had they known their children would grow up in a pandemic.

That is one of the major turning points for me and DH. In addition to the climate change crisis, pollution, housing prices, foreign relations, etc etc etc Covid was one more thing that we thought "huh, what will the world look like for children born now, in 10, 20, 40 years?"

 

[theredspinel]

You are underestimating the intelligence of the women here if you think they aren't aware of the range of options they have to contribute to a healthier planet. You're making unfair assumptions. I've found that women who don't want to have children tend to have a broad range of reasons in their arsenal as defense against those who question and criticize their motivation, including contributing to a healthier planet.

First, cheers for your civilised response/questioning to my post appreciate that moreso after the nasty one! (I missed this post until kenny quoted it).

Anyway, I think you’re misunderstanding my posts. I’ve made no assumptions.

The last part of the highlighted bit above really hits my point home: “…broad range of reasons in their arsenal as defense against those who question and criticize their motivation, including…”

RE the outside world: why defend your life choice in the face of such judgement anyway? Why have this list of reasons you need to give to justify your choice? Do people that choose to have kids, also justify their choices? Nope.

RE in this thread, if you’re suggesting my posts were included in ‘those who question and critize…’ again you’ve misread/misunderstood/jumped to the wrong conclusion entirely. I don’t give a damn what people or the OP do, I was contributing to the conversation and made counter points. That’s all, just counter points, as with everything in life, there can be different perspectives on it. No judgement here but the people that saw judgement where there was none… I would ask myself why.

So to conclude if someone’s main reason for not having kids was environmental reasons, that’s fine, as long as they could actually see there were bigger ways to leave less of a carbon footprint. That’s not an attack - just basic fact. And if that wasn’t a consideration but just tacked on to the end of reasons why… they should realise they don’t need to justify their choices to anyone.

 

[theredspinel]

This is not to stir the pot but I genuinely wonder how many people with children (young ones especially) would choose differently had they known their children would grow up in a pandemic.

I don’t wonder this, but I do wonder about people choosing to get pregnant in the midst of a global pandemic especially at the time when hospital beds were so limited.

 

[diamondyes]

Children have DEFINITELY affected the control I have over my life. 1000%. @theredspinel I really admire that you’ve been able to travel and not feel constrained in your life as a parent. I wonder if this speaks to your personality, your parenting style, the resources available to you, or all of the above? Myself I feel that having children has taken many options away from me at the moment (my kids are 1 and 4) and there is a mourning that goes along with that. I am at peace with it, but I recognize the loss. Whether you choose to have kids or not, it’s easy to look at the path not taken and wonder!

Anyways back to control: my sleep is not my own, my career has taken a significant hit, my friendships have changed (some for the better and some for the worse), and my health has been impacted directly. So for me, control sounds like a pipe dream haha! But we don’t have any family around, I’m very risk-averse, and we haven’t felt comfortable hiring much help during the pandemic.

Speaking of which… I honestly do not know if I would’ve had two kids had I known a pandemic was coming. Climate change + pandemic is a lot to wrap my head around.

Edited to add: something I’m very aware of right now is my lack of willingness to move for the right job. I know many people would be willing to do this but personally I am not willing to take the kids out of school and out of their childhood home, which makes me feel rather constrained when it comes to considering career opportunities. No regrets, but I am very aware of the sacrifices.

And as for health, a recent example: we have had SUCH a tight bubble for two years, the only exception has been daycare. Well, daycare had an outbreak last week and we all have Covid. The parenting life is the one for me (although like someone above I feel this is not the logical, rational choice!) but I am definitely feeling like I wouldn’t have Covid right now if I didn’t hang out with unvaccinated little ones ha! Oh well. We are surviving.

 

[TooPatient]

I assumed I would have kids when I was growing up because that was just life. I hated babysitting some kids. Enjoyed others. To skip ahead.... (Skipping over miserable step kid, layoff from job, nearly losing a house, etc.)
I was on the fence after seeing the good and the bad first-hand. Leaning towards wanting after we could recover some. Then I ended up in the hospital sick. That was my final straw and where I fell firmly into no kids. I came home still blind in one eye (mostly better now) and in huge amounts of pain. I couldn't manage to pick up a cat. I hurt when the dogs touched me. I spent days naked on the couch because I hurt to even have fabric touching me. Every day isn't like that, but it is unpredictable when (or if) things will flare. I have good days and bad. I can't imagine trying to take care of a kid. My bad days are such that I wouldn't be able to even being a room with them moving and making noise near me. Other than DH, there isn't family to help. He is already exhausted helping me when I need it plus the day to day stuff. Asking him to take care of a child and me for days/weeks/months/longer isn't something I want to do. When he is sick, it is all I can do to take care of him and the cats/dogs. I couldn't manage if I had to care for a child too. My grandparents are an ongoing reminder that not all kids grow up to be helpful. Some are busy with their own lives (understandable) and others just suck everything out of your life until you are dead. (Clearly, some are great! My grandparents just don't have those.) No telling which you will get.

I do periodically get the fleeting thought of how nice it would be to have a house full of kids and grandkids for Thanksgiving and Rosh Hashanah and other occasions. Then I remember that I have experienced that growing up and it was NOT something I enjoyed and it definitely seemed like a mixed bag as far as my grandparents on either side were concerned.

I am focusing on building a life I enjoy and welcoming friends who share similar interests. There is every possibility that I will die alone (assuming I outlive DH). Maybe by then I will have close enough friends to notice and care. (Friends were a bit of a difficult one as there are stages of life that seem to heavily revolve around kids. That gets easier as the kids grow up and friends are looking for adult company not just kid activities!)

Do I regret my decision? Very rarely and getting more confident in that by the year. (I suspect I couldn't have one if we wanted to at this point. Haven't had a period in something like 15 months.)

 

[Matata]

RE the outside world: why defend your life choice in the face of such judgement anyway? Why have this list of reasons you need to give to justify your choice? Do people that choose to have kids, also justify their choices? Nope.

They usually don't have to because having children is the gold standard. Those who don't want children often find themselves in a defensive position due to pressure from family and sometimes friends. It may be easier for them to appease their family and friends or to back out of a discussion gracefully when excuses are given. I wish everyone had the guts to say "none of your business" when asked about children rather than opt for a response that attempts to appease. You are fortunate if you've never had to experience people trying to make you feel less of a woman or deficient or emotionally damaged for not wanting children.

 

[oceanblue]

I am chiming in as a geriatric mom.

Have you ever been around well behaved, nice children? I grew up with much older siblings and never really liked their kids. Once in a while I would meet a kid that charmed me but not often enough to want one of my own.

Then I got married and it just sort of happened. Had we had the discussions and deep though that you are having we may never have had them.

That said I really took to being a Mom. Yes the sleepless nights and loneliness was awful and entertaining children from dawn to dusk can get boring and repetitive. BUT, BUT we had help. I had a nanny once (sometimes twice) a week for a full day so I could have time to myself. I LOVED being a stay at home mom and my kids became my new career. They were my side kicks and I loved teaching/introducing them to the wonders of the world. I enjoyed creating well behaved, polite children.

Looking Back do I wish that I had had a successful career? No, but it is sort of embarrassing in some social situations.

As for the future I just want them to be happy, healthy, polite, law abiding earth dwellers.

 

[seaurchin]

That is one of the major turning points for me and DH. In addition to the climate change crisis, pollution, housing prices, foreign relations, etc etc etc Covid was one more thing that we thought "huh, what will the world look like for children born now, in 10, 20, 40 years?"

So true. With overpopulation and the rest you've mentioned plus the high divorce rate, desire for work-life balance etc... I would probably limit it to one child if I had it to do over again, since I personally definitely did want to have that experience. I think there's a lot of wisdom in "travelling light" in general, especially in such uncertain times.

 

[diamondyes]

Borrowing a train of logic a friend helped me with: (some examples)
Why do you want kids?
-To not die alone.
Is there any other way to not die alone?
-(Yes. Explore that! My grandmother had friends in many different age groups and it served her very well.)

Why do you want kids?
-To nurture and grow a being, to love and be loved, to leave the world a better place.
Well, there are lots of ways to do that. Oprah has one example: https://myuscstory.org/portfolio/thando-dlomo/amp/

So maybe look at why you would even consider kids, which parts would be cool for you, and brainstorm to think of all the ways you could achieve that without procreating? Try that on for size?

Myself, having kids was not even a question, like a crazy person I knew it in my bones I wanted children beyond all reason. BUT if I had not had kids, I would have focused on charity work and such an incredible bling collection that museums would be saying my name for years to come! I can recall the name of Elizabeth Taylor’s diamonds but not her daughter

Right now I am spending $2500 a month on daycare (it’s a fancy one but still)- and can you just imagine what a $30,000 a year bling budget would be?! Wow.

Anyways don’t mistake me. I adore my children and it was always in the cards for me. I’m just really, really clear-eyed about the opportunity costs.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

It was never my intent to start anything negative, I've really appreciated everyone's unique perspectives! I truly appreciate everyone chiming in! I thought this was a really open discussion

your intentions were good
but (for me) it quickly became about people with children

 

[diamondyes]

your intentions were good
but (for me) it quickly became about people with children

Despite the title, OP said it was great to hear both sides and I think that is very wise of her. Especially since she feels on the fence sometimes. But I can appreciate how it must chafe to not have one single space for the childless by choice to have a voice, and if I’ve caused you any negative emotions today, I sincerely apologize. My greatest goal is to help OP figure this out. I think she is asking great questions and it’s a rather big decision.

 

[TooPatient]

your intentions were good
but (for me) it quickly became about people with children

Funny thing is that almost all of the people with children actually, to me, reinforced my decision to NOT have kids. Some of what they were describing was just a reminder of the things I would not have enjoyed.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Despite the title, OP said it was great to hear both sides and I think that is very wise of her. Especially since she feels on the fence sometimes. But I can appreciate how it must chafe to not have one single space for the childless by choice to have a voice, and if I’ve caused you any negative emotions today, I sincerely apologize. My greatest goal is to help OP figure this out. I think she is asking great questions and it’s a rather big decision.

no offence
all is fine

 

[diamondyes]

no offence
all is fine

 

[Un_Petit_Rayon_de_Soleil]

I also didn't post to take space from those that are on a different path than my own. It wasn't my intention. Thank you everyone who shared. It is interesting to see people from different backgrounds and belief systems weigh in on their choices. It is valuable to have different perspectives.

 

[Austina]

I posted because I think it’s always good to hear both sides of the story. I actually didn’t want to have children, (I had a horrible childhood), but I have 1 child, and that worked for us. I also got the “how selfish only having one child!” So you can’t win either way. It sounds as though @Sprinkles&Stones has found the conversation interesting, and if it’s helped her see both sides of the story, then surely that’s a good thing.

For the record, I didn’t have a child to take care of me when I’m old, my DS and DIL know that’s the last thing I want, I don‘t have any fluffy notions about my DS being the second coming, and I don’t feel guilty about adding to the world’s population by 1. I have plenty of friends who are childless by choice or circumstances, they are equally important to me.

 

[seaurchin]

The OP said she appreciated hearing from both people with and without kids; she is not settled into either category but still trying to decide about it. And of course forum threads are generally open to all.

Anyway, I think one of many issues here is that it's always hard to differ from the mainstream in a significant way. When that's been me for various reasons, it was not always very comfortable. So imo there's definitely a "price" for non-conformity, even if most people mean well.

 

[nala]

The OP said she appreciated hearing from parents as well as nonparents, which makes sense when she is not in either category but still trying to decide about it. And of course forum threads are generally open to all.

Anyway, I think one of many issues here is that it's always hard to differ from the mainstream in a significant way. When that was me for various things, it was uncomfortable for me. So imo there's definitely a "price" for non-conformity, even if most people mean well.

I think what most posters are objecting to—in terms of those of us who talk about being mothers—is that we sound like we are gloating. We choose to focus on all the positives, (especially the more far removed we are from the baby years,) the more biased we are about how proud we are of our offspring and the role that we had in raising them. I can admit to that and can see how that is annoying bc it glosses over all the hardships and risks and sacrifices that many of us endured in the process. We don’t talk about how heartbroken we were when our teens endured their first heartbreak or their first failure. You get the idea. When you love your children unconditionally, their pain is your pain. You are only as happy as they are. And that is all I meant by saying that as parents, your life is not yours anymore.

I never made a comment about control and parenting bc I would be a fool to think that I ever had any control over my DD’s choices and to think that I could control how I would feel about hers. Now that she is independent, I have more control over my finances, lol, my career choices but not about how I react to her stages in life. I mean. Who doesn’t wish they could pick their offspring’s significant others? Hahaha. My sister was super excited about her only son’s wedding and get this—he eloped last weekend. Think that didn’t hurt her? Think she didn’t need a few days to recover? That’s what I mean about always being affected.
Finally. We have such a selective audience here. Most parents whose kids end up in prison, are drug addicts, etc. are not posting on a jewelry forum, after all.

 

[Mreader]

Haven’t read everything but one thing about people saying how their careers took a hit and the money they spend on daycare - a lot of this is a problem specific to the United States which lags embarrassingly in terms of offering paid leave as well as subsidized childcare.