FMIL Issues - need advice

[ts44]

Here''s the background: My fiance and I just spent a weekend at his family''s cottage on a lake for Labor Day weekend. I have met his family before and spent time at the cottage before, but this was the first time seeing them since the engagement. It''s a very small cottage, but the lake and surrounding land is beautiful. We did have to sleep in a tent in the yard because there are only 2 bedrooms and a fold-out bed, and his mother and older sister and her family (husband, 2 young kids, 1 newborn) filled the rooms. I''m not much of a camper and find it pretty hard to sleep in a tent, but put on the happy face because there really is nowhere else to sleep. Well, I thought it was a lovely weekend with beautiful weather and I thought everybody was getting along just fine. Apparently, that was not the case at all.

A few days later I came home from work and stopped at my fiance''s place and found him crying. I asked what was wrong and he said it was nothing I needed to concern myself with but that he apologized for dragging me to the lake this weekend, and how he would never let his mother speak to me again and how awful the whole experience must have been for me. WHAT? We went back and forth on it for a bit and eventually it came out that his mother had written him not one, not two, but THREE very long emails about how I am wrong for him and our marriage would end in divorce. Her main points were as follows:

-I am going to be a horrible mother because I do not fawn over her 3 granchildren
-I am stuck-up and condescending, and treated her very coldly
-I refused to eat the food she provided for me
-My family feels superior to her, looks down on her, and she refuses to meet them now

This was a complete shock to me. I thought we had a good relationship up until this point. I want to write her a letter and address her concerns in the following way:

-I don''t pick up and play with the grandchildren 24/7 because I''m always hands-off with other people''s children, as I''m afraid of doing something wrong. I did watch over them, and even stopped the 1-yr old from walking into the lake when his father wasn''t watching him close enough. I think they''re cute kids, but they''re not mine, you know?
-I was a little standoffish this weekend because the Friday before we left I had to file a formal complaint against a co-worker for sexual harassment. I work in a very small office (~10 people) so it''s a big deal. I was shellshocked through the weekend and tried to not let it get to me but it did, I guess. Plus I was running on lack of sleep thanks to the tent thing.
-As for the food, they had some strudel and some donuts from a local grocery store there for snacks, and I mentioned off-handed to my fiance that I couldn''t eat them because they have trans-fat in them and isn''t it strange in this day and age that a grocery store would still offer items out of its bakery with trans-fats in them. I guess she overheard me. I did eat and profusely compliment every single home-made item that was placed in front of me, and honestly too because it was all delicious.
-She has never met my family. She asked me to describe my mother to her and I told her that my mother is a small business owner, gregarious, traveled, and fashionable, and a lot of fun to hang out with, and I also said I thought they would get along just fine. She took that definition and twisted it around to mean that my mother is so much more fashionable and interesting than her (she is a stay-at-home mom who raised 4 kids on her own and rarely traveled within her state, let alone outside of the US) that she looks down on her as some down-home frump and now refuses to meet her! My mother asks when she will come to visit every time I see her, I don''t know what to tell her now!

Do you think I should write the letter? I don''t even know if it''s worth it at this point to address...my fiance is upset, but he is sticking by me and now saying his mother must be insane, which makes me sad too. They had a good relationship prior to this and I don''t want to be the wedge between them, deserved or not! I also don''t want to write a letter and have it come off as some kind of excuse-filled pity party. I''m so confused.

She said in the emails that it was the "worst weekend of her life."

 

[wannaBMrsH]

TS44, first of all big (((((HUGS)))))

I don''t suggest that you write her a note. I had a bog problem with my MIL when my DH and I first got engaged (before that, I thought we were all wonderful) and DH and I actually went into couples therapy as a result of it.

It was the best thing that could have happened. We learned so much about each other''s family of origin and it sounds like you and your FI are experiencing something similar and you are thrown off because you can''t define or explain, much less understand the problem.

You and your family have one way of working problems out (in my family, we yell and scream and laugh and cry) and your FIs family has a different way of working the same issues out (in DH''s family everyone get''s quiet and withdraws until the problem "goes away"). When your way collides with their way, it''s very easy to say the wrong thing and make the situation worse. My BIL and DH still don''t speak over something that I said to MIL (even though MIL and I are fantastic!) back when we initially got engaged (he and his wife didn''t come to our wedding!) and DH is now so hurt over them missing the wedding that he says we can''t recover from it.

I don''t wish that upon you, and an email is something that can always be referred back to...

Try to find out what his family way of dealing with problems is and let HIM deal with HIS family. Just continue to be nice and sweet and if you do call her or speak to her, ask her, "My mom is very much looking forward to meeting you! She loves (your FI) and can''t wait to get to know you as well! When can we set something up?" and if she''s evasive, let HIM deal with her. Stay nice and sweet, because I tried to defend myself and it was not my best decision.

Good Luck!

 

[cara]

Hmm, whatever happened I don't think a letter is the right way to deal with it. There is no guarantee that the woman that imagined slights against her from your mother and you during this weekend will give an honest reading to your letter. And just like the three letters your FMIL wrote were not the right way to deal with doubts about your son's potential wife, a letter is not the right forum for such emotionally charged accustations. Paper lasts awhile. A few thoughts:

1) Its hard to evaluate all of the charges against you without being there, or hearing independent accounts. Some are clearly ridiculous (your "family" judging your FMIL based on your comments) but if you were stressed out maybe a few things like your transfat comment came off the wrong way. Some people would take it as a slight against their hospitality even though you made nicer comments about the homecooked food. What *is* clear is that the FMIL's overall reaction is over the top and inappropriate, if your description is anywhere in the right ballpark. Which brings us to:

2) What does your FI think of his mother's behavior (and how the weekend went)? Was he also blindsided by his mother's interpretation of the weekend? Was he blindsided by his mother's behavior - writing multiple letters trying to break up your relationship, imagining slights, sending emails about something so deeply important as his son's choice of wife rather than calling him up to have an actual conversation? Prioritizing her own comfort with you and opinions on your suitability over his own opinions and happiness? She didn't write to her son: you seem miserable with this woman. She wrote some version of: I will be miserable with this woman in the family.

I find it difficult to believe that such letters come from a woman without a history of previous meddling, manipulative behavior, and selfishness. The question is, does your FI consider this behavior out of character from his mother or is it typicial? If this is par for the course with his mother, then maybe he has dealt with this manipulative crap before and is both used to it and done dealing with it. If he never saw any hints of this kind of thing from his mother before, then maybe she's had a momentary lapse of sanity (less likely) or maybe he was in denial, rationalizing and accommodating her previous bad behavior. Either way, his reaction about protecting you was good, but really he also has needs and relationships here - she is his mother, and cutting her out of his life will be hard as he also has other family members and relationships to consider. Talk with him a bunch more and come up with what is the best way for you both to approach his mother (which will involve his opinion of her past behavior and his opinion on what approaches work best with her) - be it he sits down with her alone and tells her her comments were completely off-base and inappropriate and unwelcome, or maybe you write a thankyou letter for the lovely weekend and apologizing for being "stressed out by work" without giving any more details or explanations and you both otherwise completely ignore her letters while coming up with limit-setting mechanisms for dealing with her in the future, etc. While you don't want any sunlight between you and your FI in dealing with his mother, you also want him to be the pointman for any difficult conversations. You look out for you FI, this can't be easy on him

 

[havernell]

I''m also not sure writing a letter to your future MIL is the best idea because, frankly, it sounds like she has other issues going on here that aren''t related to you that are the REAL cause of her current discontent.

There is no way that you not eating a few doughnuts and you not picking up a baby more equals anyone''s "worst weekend of my life." I think she''s concocting "realities" in her head about you that truly aren''t there because she doesn''t know how to cope with something else in her life (i.e. maybe she''s having a hard time dealing with the fact that her son is getting married, maybe she and her husband are having marital issues, maybe she''s had a falling out with a friend recently... it could be anything). Often, when we are upset about something, it''s easier to blame someone else, especially an outsider (read: you) rather than face what is really wrong.

You trying to engage her in a point by point dialogue won''t do anything if she''s exaggerated everything in her head, and may make it worse because it means you are letting her set the discourse. Also, since the emails weren''t addressed to you, I think it would give her further reason to be upset if you wrote her in response to an email she sent to your fiance. I think you should just ignore it and hope she simmers down a bit. Now, your fiance should probably speak to his mom about the emails. Perhaps he can convey some of the points you would have put in your letter when he talks with her.

I''m really sorry you are going through this, as it''s no fun at all! I hope that your MIL does eventually come to realize that making you the scapegoat for all that is making her unhappy is not healthy. Hugs!

 

[VRBeauty]

ts44 -- what a terrible situation! I''m so sorry you and your fiance are having to deal with this! I don''t have any practical advice to add, except that my gut level response is the same as the other commenters'' -- there''s no way that any sort of written response would lead to a win-win situation. This is just too delicate to be handled in writing, and it''s clear that FMIL is for some reason (that has nothing to do with you) looking for slights and problems. Any sort of letter that might leave her feeling better would probably involve groveling or something that would leave you feeling worse.

But... have you written her yet to thank her for the weekend? If not, it might be a chance to explain what you were going through... i.e. I''m realizing that I may have been somewhat distant. If so, please accept my apologies. On the Friday prior to Labor Day I was thrust into a very difficult situation at work -- one that may cost someone else their job -- and I''m afraid I let that situation keep me from fully enjoying my time with your family. (in your words, of course.) It wouldn''t stop her from finding fault, but it might take one thing off the table.

 

[tlroza]

How many sons does she have? It almost sounds like the week-end wasn''t all about her and she has an issue with that. If you read between the lines. You didn''t fawn over the kids like SHE thought you should, you didn''t want to eat the pastries that SHE provided and She feels inferior in regards to your family.

Wow, sounds like there''s some huge issues with mom.

 

[rhbgirl24]

Date: 9/12/2009 5:41:23 PM
Author: tlroza
How many sons does she have? It almost sounds like the week-end wasn''t all about her and she has an issue with that. If you read between the lines. You didn''t fawn over the kids like SHE thought you should, you didn''t want to eat the pastries that SHE provided and She feels inferior in regards to your family.

Wow, sounds like there''s some huge issues with mom.

I agree. I would try another meeting in some nuetral place like a restaurant. To try and talk to her and patch things up. That way she doesn''t have expectations in her home and maybe you can explain....

 

[decodelighted]

Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about "mom" and form a united front.

 

[honey22]

Wow, what an awful situation. I agree with the other ladies though, I would make an effort to meet with her and try and sort it out.

Who knows, maybe she is just having trouble adjusting to the idea that her boy is getting married. MILs can go very strange sometimes, here''s hoping that it will work itself out.

 

[lulu66]

+1 thats what i was thinking. is this her first son to get married? sounds like she doesn''t want to lose her little boy, so she''s finding faults in you/your family. maybe? anyway, i def wouldn''t write her a letter. we say things in letters we would never say in real life & in this situation that''s not what you want. personally, i would continue to be myself around her & hope she comes to her senses good luck!

 

[ts44]

First, thank you all for your kind comments and support. To answer a few questions, yes this is her first son getting married. She has 3 sons and my fiance is the youngest. She has always been sort of a glass-half-full person, she always sees something negative instead of something positive, but up until now it''s been in kind of a non-confrontational way. Something like, her 40-yr old stove breaks, and instead of saying "well the stove certainly was old enough, it''s time to get a new one anyway," she''ll say "oh the stove broke, I should have never bought it." So the hyperbole about the weekend is not totally far off base because if maybe three sort of bad things happen, she can and will blow it up to be the "worst weekend ever" no matter how many good things also happened. That being said, she is a good-hearted person and loves her family to death. I really do respect her greatly.

Also, and I didn''t know this at the time but my fiance just told me that she did something similar when the middle brother was close to getting engaged to the girl he was seeing (they broke up soon after), so the comments about her being scared of "losing" her boys seem spot-on to me.

I have slept on it a bit and I agree with all of you that writing a letter isn''t the best idea. I think that we will have to call her and talk to her about this. My fiance wants to do it together, on speakerphone, but I''m not sure that''s a great idea. I kind of want him to talk to her by himself first, so she doesn''t possibly perceive me as manipulating him. I just want to help my fiance with this somehow, because his relationship with his mother is so important, but I don''t know how to do it without making everything worse. It''s so hard because we live far away from her and can''t just drive up and see her without some planning involved. I wanted to involve her in the wedding planning too, but now I don''t know how I can possibly bring that up with all of this hanging over our heads.

 

[House Cat]

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

Incredible article deco. Thanks for this.

My N radar went off about FMIL too. Any mother who is even willing to say these things about the woman her son loves, for such trivial things, has some really deep issues. You won''t be able to speak to her about this logically. So, I agree that you should lower your expectations of her. She is twisting events in her mind. I wonder if anything that you say will actually make things worse?

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

"That was the sad part of it all. Because the death of expectations also meant the death of hope. Gone forever was the dream that by treating my mother with kid gloves, or even talking honestly, I was going to transform her in to someone more enlightened. Instead I had to face the depressing fact that to interact unguardedly with her (or any narcissist) was to set myself up as a sounding board in one-sided conversations that could easily morph in to petty personal attacks."

Good lord ain''t that the truth.

Another good link is: http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

Someone here recommended it to me and I couldn''t believe how spot on it was.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

Thank you, deco - I found this article fascinating, mainly because it was totally spot-on with the way my in-laws act, particularly my mother-in-law. Unbelievably accurate.

ts44 - I wish I had good advice for you. I''ve been trying for years to deal with my mother in law and the way she behaves and acts and I still haven''t figured out what to do about it. My father in law is worse so I don''t even let that bother me anymore, but I had always wanted to be close to my mother in law and yet after all these years she just makes it impossible. With people like this, they just want themselves to be happy. She doesn''t care if your fiance is happy (just as my MIL doesn''t care if my husband is happy) - she wants to be happy HERSELF. And as long as you don''t fully live up to her unreasonable expectations, it will never be good enough (at least in my case). My husband was also the first to get married, and his mother even has said he''s still "her baby who got married too young" and she "knows him better" than I do. She constantly makes comments like that, but I''ve learned to just let them roll off my back. I don''t care anymore if she says negative things about me because I know she''s just a narcissistic self centered person, but it REALLY bothers me when my husband gets upset about it. The fact that she''s hurting HIM really is what bothers me and I can''t stand it. Unfortunately, there''s not much I can do about it.

I think an email would be a bad idea, only because it sounds like she might assume your tone is different from what it is intended. Emails can always be looked at again or referenced. People can assume your tone was antagonistic when really it was neutral - so I think a face-to-face meeting (or even phone conversation) probably would be more effective. It could work... or it might just be something that you''ll unfortunately have to accept as part of her personality. For your sake, I hope it''s just something that will blow over when she gets used to the idea of her son getting married.

My main suggestion to you is to make sure your fiance is on your side. As long as he will defend you and be on your side, you can deal with this together. You should absolutely encourage him to continue to have a relationship with his mother (you don''t want him to ever resent you for "telling him" not to speak to his mother) but just make sure he understands where you''re coming from and knows that when you''re married you''re a TEAM and you need to have each others'' backs in situations like these. I tell my husband every day to call his mother (he usually refuses because at this point HE can''t deal with her negativity and self-centeredness, but I''m often the one telling him he hasn''t spoken to her in a while and he should call) and I always know he will defend me to no end if she says even one bad word against me. Knowing that he is on my side makes all the difference - we no longer argue about his parents or their attitude or comments anymore because I can let it all go knowing he defends me if they say anything bad. So I think if it turns out that your FMIL is just going to be like this on a regular basis, you should just make sure your fiance will be on your side.

Good luck - I know this isn''t a great situation and it can be very hurtful. I hope things get better soon

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 9/12/2009 11:07:59 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

''That was the sad part of it all. Because the death of expectations also meant the death of hope. Gone forever was the dream that by treating my mother with kid gloves, or even talking honestly, I was going to transform her in to someone more enlightened. Instead I had to face the depressing fact that to interact unguardedly with her (or any narcissist) was to set myself up as a sounding board in one-sided conversations that could easily morph in to petty personal attacks.''

Good lord ain''t that the truth.

Another good link is: http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

Someone here recommended it to me and I couldn''t believe how spot on it was.

Deco and Lucky, THANK YOU for posting these links. My mother is a textbook case. It''s amazingly therapeutic to know that other people understand what I went/am going through.

 

[House Cat]

Date: 9/13/2009 12:13:12 AM
Author: Lilac

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

Thank you, deco - I found this article fascinating, mainly because it was totally spot-on with the way my in-laws act, particularly my mother-in-law. Unbelievably accurate.

ts44 - I wish I had good advice for you. I''ve been trying for years to deal with my mother in law and the way she behaves and acts and I still haven''t figured out what to do about it. My father in law is worse so I don''t even let that bother me anymore, but I had always wanted to be close to my mother in law and yet after all these years she just makes it impossible. With people like this, they just want themselves to be happy. She doesn''t care if your fiance is happy (just as my MIL doesn''t care if my husband is happy) - she wants to be happy HERSELF. And as long as you don''t fully live up to her unreasonable expectations, it will never be good enough (at least in my case). My husband was also the first to get married, and his mother even has said he''s still ''her baby who got married too young'' and she ''knows him better'' than I do. She constantly makes comments like that, but I''ve learned to just let them roll off my back. I don''t care anymore if she says negative things about me because I know she''s just a narcissistic self centered person, but it REALLY bothers me when my husband gets upset about it. The fact that she''s hurting HIM really is what bothers me and I can''t stand it. Unfortunately, there''s not much I can do about it.

I think an email would be a bad idea, only because it sounds like she might assume your tone is different from what it is intended. Emails can always be looked at again or referenced. People can assume your tone was antagonistic when really it was neutral - so I think a face-to-face meeting (or even phone conversation) probably would be more effective. It could work... or it might just be something that you''ll unfortunately have to accept as part of her personality. For your sake, I hope it''s just something that will blow over when she gets used to the idea of her son getting married.

My main suggestion to you is to make sure your fiance is on your side. As long as he will defend you and be on your side, you can deal with this together. You should absolutely encourage him to continue to have a relationship with his mother (you don''t want him to ever resent you for ''telling him'' not to speak to his mother) but just make sure he understands where you''re coming from and knows that when you''re married you''re a TEAM and you need to have each others'' backs in situations like these. I tell my husband every day to call his mother (he usually refuses because at this point HE can''t deal with her negativity and self-centeredness, but I''m often the one telling him he hasn''t spoken to her in a while and he should call) and I always know he will defend me to no end if she says even one bad word against me. Knowing that he is on my side makes all the difference - we no longer argue about his parents or their attitude or comments anymore because I can let it all go knowing he defends me if they say anything bad. So I think if it turns out that your FMIL is just going to be like this on a regular basis, you should just make sure your fiance will be on your side.

Good luck - I know this isn''t a great situation and it can be very hurtful. I hope things get better soon

Hi Lilac,

I think the epiphany comes when you realize the Narcissist can never BE happy. They are like a bottomless well. There is nothing you can do to make them happy and there is nothing they can do to make themselves happy. Once this really sinks in, you stop trying to please them and begin to do the things that bring you joy.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 9/13/2009 11:47:04 AM
Author: House Cat

Date: 9/13/2009 12:13:12 AM

Author: Lilac

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM

Author: decodelighted

Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

Thank you, deco - I found this article fascinating, mainly because it was totally spot-on with the way my in-laws act, particularly my mother-in-law. Unbelievably accurate.

ts44 - I wish I had good advice for you. I''ve been trying for years to deal with my mother in law and the way she behaves and acts and I still haven''t figured out what to do about it. My father in law is worse so I don''t even let that bother me anymore, but I had always wanted to be close to my mother in law and yet after all these years she just makes it impossible. With people like this, they just want themselves to be happy. She doesn''t care if your fiance is happy (just as my MIL doesn''t care if my husband is happy) - she wants to be happy HERSELF. And as long as you don''t fully live up to her unreasonable expectations, it will never be good enough (at least in my case). My husband was also the first to get married, and his mother even has said he''s still ''her baby who got married too young'' and she ''knows him better'' than I do. She constantly makes comments like that, but I''ve learned to just let them roll off my back. I don''t care anymore if she says negative things about me because I know she''s just a narcissistic self centered person, but it REALLY bothers me when my husband gets upset about it. The fact that she''s hurting HIM really is what bothers me and I can''t stand it. Unfortunately, there''s not much I can do about it.

I think an email would be a bad idea, only because it sounds like she might assume your tone is different from what it is intended. Emails can always be looked at again or referenced. People can assume your tone was antagonistic when really it was neutral - so I think a face-to-face meeting (or even phone conversation) probably would be more effective. It could work... or it might just be something that you''ll unfortunately have to accept as part of her personality. For your sake, I hope it''s just something that will blow over when she gets used to the idea of her son getting married.

My main suggestion to you is to make sure your fiance is on your side. As long as he will defend you and be on your side, you can deal with this together. You should absolutely encourage him to continue to have a relationship with his mother (you don''t want him to ever resent you for ''telling him'' not to speak to his mother) but just make sure he understands where you''re coming from and knows that when you''re married you''re a TEAM and you need to have each others'' backs in situations like these. I tell my husband every day to call his mother (he usually refuses because at this point HE can''t deal with her negativity and self-centeredness, but I''m often the one telling him he hasn''t spoken to her in a while and he should call) and I always know he will defend me to no end if she says even one bad word against me. Knowing that he is on my side makes all the difference - we no longer argue about his parents or their attitude or comments anymore because I can let it all go knowing he defends me if they say anything bad. So I think if it turns out that your FMIL is just going to be like this on a regular basis, you should just make sure your fiance will be on your side.

Good luck - I know this isn''t a great situation and it can be very hurtful. I hope things get better soon

Hi Lilac,

I think the epiphany comes when you realize the Narcissist can never BE happy. They are like a bottomless well. There is nothing you can do to make them happy and there is nothing they can do to make themselves happy. Once this really sinks in, you stop trying to please them and begin to do the things that bring you joy.

House Cat - I think you''re absolutely right. There is nothing you can do to make them happy because they I don''t think they really want to be happy. In the last few months both DH and I have realized that no matter what we do or say his parents will never be happy, so we stopped trying so hard to please them all the time and we do what makes US happy. And we are much happier because of this

 

[HollyS]

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

Good article; I can so relate because of family and ''friends''.

To the OP: You cannot change this situation. Your FI cannot change this situation. Any attempt to do so will result in more and escalated conflict. If he loves you, he will have to ignore his mother''s efforts at ''sending you packing''. And if you have to get married without her blessing, without her help, and without her presence, go ahead and do it. (But be extremely aware of whether your FI has any of the same tendencies, before you walk down the aisle. And know that you will, on some level, always be dealing with her crap for as long as she lives.)

 

[anchor31]

Dear ts44 - Unfortunately, there is nothing you can say or do to her to help or change the situation. The article Deco posted really has great points (thank you Deco!), and what I''ve learned from my experience from my narcissistic in-laws is indeed to have no expectations and to distance myself. It''s sad, because I know I''ll never be the DIL my MIL would want me to be, but I decided that I would let myself be miserable because she is. Unfortunately, it''s probably going to be your case as well and your MIL may never be happy with you, but you too have a choice: either you let her make you miserable, or you don''t.

 

[ts44]

Well, we bit the bullet and called her. It didn''t go really poorly, but it didn''t go very well either.

My fiance insisted that we present a united front to her, so he had me sit next to him and we called her on speakerphone. He spoke with her at first, and I chimed in a little, but the gist of the conversation went thusly:

My fiance and I explained how she has overreacted to the weekend events, and how nothing harmful was meant by any of my actions, and how I wasn''t really myself, and I stated again and again how much I respect her and think she''s terrific. Unfortunately I don''t think she actually HEARD any of what we said to her because she was too busy cutting us off with "I''m so sorry, I''ll never interfere again, I should have never said anything, I''ll just keep my mouth shut next time, poor little me." She told us straight up that she feels cut off from him and that she "understands that when sons get married the mother has no place in the relationship, I know I should just step back and not say anything, poor lonely me."

It was completely infuriating and very sad at the same time. I''m convinced that deco has hit the nail on the head.

ALL of her concerns revolved around how she feels and how it was affecting her and how she felt she was acting as a mother should. She never addressed how it was making her son feel, as a matter of fact, she said that she was surprised he was so upset and never intended to upset him. I don''t know how she can even logically form that thought in her head given the content of the emails.

My fiance is very saddened by all of this but is sticking by me. He is concerned that his mother will poison his siblings against me (who I have always had great relationships with) so he is on the phone now calling them to talk to them about the situation.

I feel a lot of compassion and empathy for her (her husband, who was her high-school sweetheart and the love of her life, died young and it has been downhill for her since then), but we won''t let her negativity influence us. I guess we will take it one day at a time.

 

[oddoneout]

What a sad situation. I''m glad you and your fiance at least tried to talk to her. You tried your best. I wish I could offer some advice.

 

[tyty333]

You might want to think twice about including her in your wedding planning. Its a nice thought but may be more heartache/headache
than its worth

.

 

[supergirl10]

I tried to respond yesterday but my computer ate my post!

I just wanted to tell you how sorry I feel you and that I have been in almost the exactly the same situation (which I hope will help you to know that their are others out there)

When now FI and I first go together my FMIL was lovely. A bit of background info, our family has been friends for years and years. Our dads went to school together and still keep in contact even after his parents got divorced.

Then when FI moved home after being away for nearly 10 year that is when the trouble started. Looking back I was young and stupid and just confided in her too much.

When he moved up, I choose to move in with FI and my parents cut me off fiancially (in my second year of undergrad degree) because they morally disagreed with my decision to live with him before marrige. So FMIL sort of became my surrogate mother, because mine refused to speak to me for six months.

I was only young 20 nearly 21 and dealing with the breakdown of my relationship with parents, going from LD with FI to living together (big adjustment) and the diagnosis of a long term illness (me). As a result I became quite anxious and was not really myself as I was trying to cope with all of these things at once at such a young age.

To cut a long story short she came over one day (seemingly out of nowhere) and hurled nearly 20 minutes of verbal abuse at me including but not limited to that I was: a gold digging whore, using her son for his money and I was "robbing him from inside". She also accused me about lying about attending university

and that I was failing (not true whatsoever). I was also not an adaquate partner in regards to keeping home clean, cooking for her son etc and even my grandmother agree (again NOT true).

Now you would think after that that I could never ever build a relationship with her.

Although it hurt me like hell and she had very little - no evidence of her above accusations I took the high road and did not abuse her back. I sat there and listened to her rant and said nothing back or against her or her family whatsoever.

Even afterwards I still encouraged FI to call her, visit etc even though he didn''t really want a lot to do with her at all. We both still visited ocassionally.

Bascially I just kept being the same person that I was, because deep down I knew that her accusations where false and that in the long term it would do me no favour to confront her about it as I was going to be his wife one day and I was going to have to deal with her for the rest of our lives.

Now nearly three years on you would not even know it was the same person she was beyond thrilled when we got engaged, is super excited about the wedding and truly treats me like a daughter in every way. She loves and me often tells FI he should treat me better lol.

I''m convinced now (infact I was just thinking about this yesterday) that the reason I have had no difficulties with her ever again is because she see''s now that she was wrong and she realises that I was very mature at such a young age not to go back at her as such and confront her over her behaviour. I took the moral highground as such and I think that she may feel like a bit of a fool over it now.

So my advice (if you want it) is to ensure where possible that you do the same and take the highroad even though it may feel like you are signalling defeat to her. You have talked to her to express that you are both as a couple hurt and upset by this but present a united front.

I am very pleaseed your FI is on your side, that will help a great deal. Most importantly keep on being yourself because as deco''s article put it so well it is not you that is really her problem.

Best wishes and keep us update. I normally would not share such a personal story but I really hope that this helps you know that things can get better.

Supergirl

 

[jaylex]

ts: Oh dear... in addition to being ohioans and "diamond twins"... we seem to have the same FMIL.
My fiance's mom is EXTREMELY Possesive and Controlling. He has been struggleing with it all of his life.

When we first started dating (when I was only 15 mind you), she called all of her friends and told her that i was "the one". I would meet people at family gatherings and other events and they would say "so, ___(FF's mom)___ tells us that you and Jay are going to get married some day!"

But that was then, this is now (and for the past 3 and 1/2 years)
On Saturday, right before he was "forced" to tell her that he was proposing to me... ("I KNOW you have a ring! I looked at your incoming mail... that was from a jewelery store! So when are you proposing.?? You NEED to tell me! tomorrow? next week? TODAY?!"... "actually mom, yes. today.")
she told him that she "wouldn't have picked me for him"

It really stung when he told me she said that. Especially since EVERYONE else in our families is completely thrilled that we are engaged (including his stepfather).
but I wasn't shocked.

Earlier in the year she told one of our best friends (Jay's future best man) that I was a "fat lazy b!tch" and that she "hates me".
And she told FF that I would be a terrible mother because I once mentioned that I don't like blood.
She tells him that I "use my body to get what I want from him". (funny cuz I'm extremely conservative...)
She has told him that "I will make him miserable because no one could ever possibly be happy with someone like me".
She once told me that she wanted me to consider her "my mother" because my real mom is a bad one because she let me date Jay when I was 15. (please see underlined text..)
When we came back on saturday night to "celebrate" our engagement with them, she ran right into the kitchen and started slamming dishes around. She COMPLETELY ignored us until I went to leave. Not even once did she congratulate us. Then, on my way out the door she gave me a kiss on the cheek (

) and hugged me goodbye. "see you soon!".. Crazy.

My fiance is her oldest. She has two daughters with his step dad (ages 12 and 6) and so she still likes to think of him as a child. To her, I am strong competition and she can't stand that her "little boy" is trying to "grow up".


I've come to realize that she is the way she is. It's not my fault she hates me. I have written her letters, had "heart to heart" chats with her, and tried to be the nicest person to her but nothing I do will change her. FF has tried talking to her pretty much every week for the past 4 years. He just reminds me that she is a bitter person and If he was marrying anyone else, It would be the exact same story. He tells me I am a better person than that and that as much as it stings, I need to try to ignore it.. she's going to be the one that suffers in the end when she sees that she's not really involved in ours (and our children's) lives.

But it's so hard for me to not be bitter against her.

Sorry if that seemed like a long rant but I just wanted to let you know that I understand what you are going through. Maybe it's in that lake erie water lol.
I really feel for your situation and hope that it gets worked out.. I'm hear if you need a shoulder or a punching bag (we can use each others MIL's

lol! JP

...don't be bitter...don't be bitter....)

 

[jaylex]

Date: 9/13/2009 3:11:47 PM
Author: ts44
Well, we bit the bullet and called her. It didn''t go really poorly, but it didn''t go very well either.

My fiance insisted that we present a united front to her, so he had me sit next to him and we called her on speakerphone. He spoke with her at first, and I chimed in a little, but the gist of the conversation went thusly:

My fiance and I explained how she has overreacted to the weekend events, and how nothing harmful was meant by any of my actions, and how I wasn''t really myself, and I stated again and again how much I respect her and think she''s terrific. Unfortunately I don''t think she actually HEARD any of what we said to her because she was too busy cutting us off with ''I''m so sorry, I''ll never interfere again, I should have never said anything, I''ll just keep my mouth shut next time, poor little me.'' She told us straight up that she feels cut off from him and that she ''understands that when sons get married the mother has no place in the relationship, I know I should just step back and not say anything, poor lonely me.''

It was completely infuriating and very sad at the same time. I''m convinced that deco has hit the nail on the head.

ALL of her concerns revolved around how she feels and how it was affecting her and how she felt she was acting as a mother should. She never addressed how it was making her son feel, as a matter of fact, she said that she was surprised he was so upset and never intended to upset him. I don''t know how she can even logically form that thought in her head given the content of the emails.

My fiance is very saddened by all of this but is sticking by me. He is concerned that his mother will poison his siblings against me (who I have always had great relationships with) so he is on the phone now calling them to talk to them about the situation.

I feel a lot of compassion and empathy for her (her husband, who was her high-school sweetheart and the love of her life, died young and it has been downhill for her since then), but we won''t let her negativity influence us. I guess we will take it one day at a time.

That is EXACTLY how conversations with FF''s mom goes.
She goes from "I hate your gf! You NEVER followed what I wanted for your relationship! You did everything the wrong way and God is mad at you" to "I know you don''t want to be around me... boo hoo hoo".

I hope the call to the siblings goes well for your fiance. In our situation, the 6 year old that used to love me just kinda likes me... and I get scolded by the 12 year old during every hour of "family time" we spend at his house.

I know that FF loves his mother and is so upset by all of this but like yours, he''s sticking by me. It is so important not to take it out on each other.

It really is crazy how similar our FMIL''s are. Do they have a support group for people like us? lol

 

[jaylex]

Date: 9/12/2009 11:07:59 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 9/12/2009 6:24:55 PM
Author: decodelighted
Read this article and you''ll understand what you''re dealing with. Maybe pass it on to your fiance to read as well. I bet he''ll have a lot of mysteries answered with this one. And maybe it''ll help you both adjust your expectations about ''mom'' and form a united front.

''That was the sad part of it all. Because the death of expectations also meant the death of hope. Gone forever was the dream that by treating my mother with kid gloves, or even talking honestly, I was going to transform her in to someone more enlightened. Instead I had to face the depressing fact that to interact unguardedly with her (or any narcissist) was to set myself up as a sounding board in one-sided conversations that could easily morph in to petty personal attacks.''

Good lord ain''t that the truth.

Another good link is: http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

Someone here recommended it to me and I couldn''t believe how spot on it was.

It''s funny because my stepdad is a narcissist.. and i didn''t pick that out in my FMIL until this thread was posted. PS... it''s like therapy! lol

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Such a terrible situation to be in ts, but i just wanted to put a little positive spin on it for you.

Your fiance is standing up to his mum and sticking by you and supporting YOU through all of this, he is not defending his mum.

There are a lot of men out there that wouldn''t stick up for the girlfriend regardless of what their mum has said or done (or they just plain keep out of it).

It sounds like you have a real keeper.

 

[Lilac]

Jaylex - the more I find out about you, the more I realize how similar our lives have been!! It''s kind of funny actually...

ts44 - I have to agree with others who have said the bright side is that you see your fiance is on your side. It really is the most important thing in this situation because sometimes fiances/husbands take their mother''s side (or parents'' side) and that would cause a ton of tension and stress for the rest of your life. So seeing now that he is on YOUR side is really a great thing in its own way. I do hope things improve with his mother though because I really do know how hurtful it can be when you try and try to get your MIL to like you and she just won''t even keep an open mind.

 

[cocolaw]

Date: 9/12/2009 7:14:33 PM
Author: honey22
Wow, what an awful situation. I agree with the other ladies though, I would make an effort to meet with her and try and sort it out.


Who knows, maybe she is just having trouble adjusting to the idea that her boy is getting married. MILs can go very strange sometimes, here''s hoping that it will work itself out.

that''s exactly it! i found out after my bridal shower that my fmil had told another woman that she is "losing her son"

 

[Ara Ann]

I''d like to point something out here, since I am getting closer to becoming a FMIL myself.

How old is FMIL? I ask because when women reach a certain age, a little thing called menopause hits...and every woman will react in a different way. I am not ''there'' yet being only 41, but my SIL has been going through this the last few years and has turned into a crazy woman, but that''s not how or who she used to be. Menopause is like puberty in your 50''s, all these hormonal things happen and it wreaks havoc and we aren''t the same person we used to be. Women become overly emotional and very vocal about things that would have been brushed off otherwise and the scary thing is, most women don''t even REALIZE they are acting that way...again, like a hormonal teenager. And menopause happens to coincide with some big life events, like children getting married, parents aging, possible health concerns, etc...kind of like a mid-life crisis, which can just highlight the issue even more.

And, being a SAHM, I would also feel a bit intimidated by your mother...my life has been full and I chose to stay home with my kids and I would never change that even if I could, I don''t regret my choice, but sometimes I do feel ''less'' than interesting because I am a SAHM. I have lots of interests and things I am very good at, but do not ''rank'' with other women who have had an exciting ''documented'' professional career or lifestyle. Take this from another mom, if I felt like I was being compared to an ''exciting'' mom, that would make an impact on me and if I were emotionally and hormonally impaired, I could go into a narcissistic mode for a time as well. Perhaps your FMIL feels regrets that she never had a career...she feels intimidated and like she''ll be tossed aside when your mom hits the scene.

See, SAH moms are ''aged out'' of their jobs in a way...as the kids grow up, we lose a part of ourselves (IF we let it happen, I am consciously NOT going to allow that to happen to me)...we lose part of our job and our identity as a result. I don''t believe your FMIL is a classic full time narcissist (my FIL is the ULTIMATE narcissist, trust me I KNOW what that''s all about), she is maybe in a state of temporary narcissism as the realization that her ''baby'' is an adult and is pulling away from her, hits her. She is becoming introspective and afraid of losing her son and has become defensive as well.

My son is almost 20 and is very serious about a girl he''s known since junior high school...they were ''steady'' friends at 14 and broke up at 16, but met up again when they graduated from high school. I really like her, very much...she is perfect for my son in many ways...but I didn''t like her in junior high, she had a difficult family life and I had her pegged as a needy girl who wanted attention and saw my son as a way to get the love she wasn''t getting at home, however, I didn''t interfere...I did tell my son to be careful and not get into ''trouble'', but I let him make his own decisions, even then. Now that she''s also almost 20, she has grown up into a GREAT young woman, she has overcome a lot in her young life and while I may not have chosen her as the ideal girl for my son in the beginning, I LOVE her now and will be thrilled to have her as a DIL someday. I tell her all the time that I love her! And I jokingly told my son if they ever break up, we''ll keep HER!

So I would cut your FMIL some slack here...try to see things from her POV and give her some time to come around. Moms are their sons first love (it is totally different being a mom of a son...it just is) and it is HARD to let go, even though we KNOW we have to and that it is healthy to do so... Show her unconditional love, even if it''s difficult for you and be patient with her. If you really are a great person, she will come to see that eventually....(even if it''s after menopause!)...you will be there someday too and then you''ll know. Moms can be seemingly totally irrational and sometimes we ARE totally irrational...but we can always come around if given the opportunity!


Good luck!