Fluorescence - Buy or Don''t Buy

[JOE33BIRD]

I have located a round stone with Strong Blue Fluorescence and I don't know whether I should go ahead and purchase. The stone has a very good cut
GIA Certified
I Color - 2.35 Carats
VS2
58.6% Depth
58% Table
0 Culet
VG Polish
VG Sym
Strong Blue Fluorescence
Med Girdle

What do you think? THere seems to be no cloudiness from the strong blue Fluorescence and the stone is very brilliant. I don't understand whether the strong Blue Fluorescence lowers the price???
Please let me know your thoughts.

The Price is $13,000 for the stone.
I don't beleive the GIA report gives crown and pavillion %, however I plan on taking it to a independent appraiser.

 

[fire&ice]

Do you have any more information such as crown or pavillion angles or percentages? At the very least, what are the measurements?

I own an I 3c w/ med/strong blue fluor & it absolutely helps the stone face up more white. It also makes the stone look more "plugged in" - gives it some more umph. I would make sure you view the stone in many different lights to make sure the stone doesn't have transparancy issues. Also, the stone may show a purplish hue in sunlight which I like - but some people don't

What's the price?

 

[pqcollectibles]

Blue Flour tend to increase the price of near colorless, I/J diamonds. Unless the diamond appears milky or oily in sunlight (rarely), you won't have any problems. The Flour should make the diamond appear whiter and brighter, and give you marvelous blue flashes of color.

Can't comment on the quality of the Cut. You didn't provide enough information. You really need Sarin info, or crown and pavillion angles for input on the quality of the make. Evidently you saw the diamond in person and it appealled to your eye. Cut quality will have a direct bearing on price. In this size diamond, there could be a significant price difference based on the true quality of the cut.

 

[Nicrez]

I actually started to prefer med to slight Fl in my F, G stones, because it DID make them look almost like E's or D's...(I'm a color snob)




So I would ssay that considering you would not want to resell the stone at a 2.3CT, and if you don't want to upgrade it, go for it. In your color stone, it make give it that whitish blue hue that back in the olden days was actually very sought after! Again, like PQ says, as long as it doesn't look too "milky" or hazy, just be careful.

 

[JOE33BIRD]

The Price is $13,000.

What does transparancy issues mean?

 

[fire&ice]

Some Strong Blues will look oily or milky in sunlight especially. Just check the stone in all lights. Direct sunlight will make the stone look confusing - don't mistake that with the oily issue.

Off the top of my head 13k seems in line.

What are the measurements in mm?

 

[pqcollectibles]

F&I was referring to sunlight. SOMETIMES in sunlight, strong blue flour can cause a diamond to appear milky or oily. Take the diamond near a window or go outside and view it in indirect sunlight. If the diamond does not take on a milky or oily appearance, you will be just fine.

You should really ask the seller for Sarin/OGI info before purchase to assess the quality of the cut. Cut impacts pricing just like color, clarity, and carat weight does.

 

[valeria101]

Interesting.... if your stone does look "oily" than you have some rare find: rarer than one in a thousand, probably, since it was not feasible to ever assemble a large enough sample of such diamonds for a systematic study so far.

The fluorescece should affect the "look" of the stone more the stronger the UV component in the lighting around is. I would assume daylight is not it, but some halogen or shop lights would. No matter what lighting it is used, still, only very, very few diamonds would ever show their fluorescence in any way as long as any light (aside the invisible UV) is present. I would simply want the stone shown to me under UV and grading conditions - which can be easily done by an appraiser (or the seller himself) I guess. Chances are that you will not get a conclusive view in normal lighting. Just seeing how strong the fluoresecence acts under controlled conditions (black light and strong UV plus visible light) would show what the worts can be, I guess...

As for the cut: this is one spready piece at below 59% depth, but otherwise there is not much to say about it. It surely did not get "very good" GIA labels for symmetry and polish for nothing, but what optical properties the stone has - there is no way to tell.

 

[JOE33BIRD]

What is the difference between Platinum & White Gold, besides price? Does the platinum loose its polish? I have heard mixed reviews.

 

[JOE33BIRD]

8.73x8.77x5.15 mm are the measurements

 

[pqcollectibles]

The diameter measurements sound on par. You need crown and pavillion angles for opinions on the cut.

The price is on par for a comparable cut without the premium for blue flour present. Typically, an I colored diamond with flour will go for a premium.

 

[JOE33BIRD]

I thought Strong Blue in the ring makes the value of the ring come down. That was my biggest worry? I thought the fluorescence was the reason why I was getting the price at close to 30% off Rap? I am now confused!!!

Also how would I come up with the crown and pavillion?

 

[dbgaap]

I read a really good explanation of flouresence on Nice Ice's website recently:
http://www.niceice.com/fluorescence.htm

 

[Rank Amateur]

----------------
On 2/27/2004 3:38:14 PM JOE33BIRD wrote:


Also how would I come up with the crown and pavillion?----------------

You can't get the crown and pavillion angles off the GIA lab report. Most often these numbers come off the an AGS report or from a vendor who has a Sarin or other machine for taking precise measurements.


The strong blue may or may not be reason to discount the stone. If it doesn't take away from the appearance, then I presume the vendor would not need or be inclined to give much of a discount. I suppose in the end it is whatever the free market decides.

There are many many many fish in the diamond sea, so if you have any qualms about this stone, move on and look for others.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I searched for the link to the chart and couldn't find it. There was a link to a pricing chart last spring for diamonds and flour. Higher colors trade at a discount. Lower colors trade at a slight premium because the blue counter balances the yellow.

If the crown and pavillion info isn't on the Cert, ask the Vendor for the information.

 

[mdx]

Fluorescence in low colors usually demand a premium and in high colors a discount, don’t know why as fluorescence in all colors (even D) is rather beautiful.

I do agree with Valeria blue fluorescence that causes oiliness is pretty rare, Its more common in Yellow Fluorescence possibly due to a Sodium presence.

Its best to have your grader test for oiliness in a light box with simulated daylight as direct sunlight can produce strange effects.
If you are going to test for oiliness using daylight avoid checking behind glass as this can filter out both long and short-wave UV. It’s the U

 

[mdx]

Sorry previous post got cut off, Lets try again

Fluorescence in low colors usually demand a premium and in high colors a discount, don’t know why as fluorescence in all colors (even D) is rather beautiful.

I do agree with Valeria blue fluorescence that causes oiliness is pretty rare, Its more common in Yellow Fluorescence possibly due to a Sodium presence.

Its best to have your grader test for oiliness in a light box with simulated daylight as direct sunlight can produce strange effects.
If you are going to test for oiliness using daylight avoid checking behind glass as this can filter out both long and short-wave UV. It’s the UV that agitates the flourishing material, often Boron

Johan

 

[mike04456]

Last week I was talking to an old Belgian diamond cutter. He insisted that a stone with strong fluorescence will never show the same brilliance and scintillation that a stone with none or faint fluorescence has, even if ideal cut.




While this statement flies in the face of conventional wisdom and the GIA study.... this guy has been cutting diamonds a couple of decades longer than I've been alive and is very knowledgeable about the business.




I'm not sure this dispute will ever be settled, personally.

 

[DavidEmslie]

Depends if you take it in the sunlight alot or not, direct sunlight will make a little bit of an effect...also in haunted houses and amusement park rides with florestent lights you may notice it.
Then again, no matter how perfect a diamond is the first time you get some soap scum or hand lotion or any dirt or oil on it (finger print)...most of the brilliance goes away. Its personal prefrence if you want to spend the extra $$$ for a stone that will be a little nicer for 10 min after being cleaned then look the same as any other stone.

 

[valeria101]

There is one point in that fames GIA study that gives weight to what LawGem wrote here: no member of the public selected for the panel could identify the change in the "look" of diamonds due to any degree of fluorescence. Half of trained observers did notice some impact on color and virtually no effect on clarity was confirmed. So, the viewer's experience was critical indeed, as LawGem says.

This tells me that "fluorescence" is bound to remain one extra word on the cert and a headache. The harder to explain the "thing" the easier to make it into some value factor whichever way one may be motivated to use it.

For once, while the price of "high white" diamonds seems to be consistently discounted for medium or stronger fluorescence (the lack of fluorescence being one more "rarity factor" besides the top color and clarity grades), I doubt somewhat that the practice to demand a premium for fluorescence in 'near white' colors is widely spread. Beyond near-whites, fluorescence is discounted in light yellows as is in the D-F color grades. At least the extra touch of yellow in the diamond does make the variance in color due to fluorescence ratehr more visible than in whites, but diamonds below K color were not used in GIA's study...

No idea how much sense all this debate if the only place where buyers become aware of fluorescence is... the cert

 

[mdx]

Hi Lawgem
Did your friend mention the color of the fluorescence; there is a yellow fluorescence that sometimes manifests itself in the form of a fine milky cloud that would certainly affect brilliance. When its localized in the cloud it looks like a yellow light inside the stone when UV is applied.

Johan

 

[valeria101]

Johan,

Just a short one...

I have just came accross a valuable stone with 'very strong white' fluorescence. What gives ? There is barely any note about this type of fluorescence anywhere.

 

[diamondsman]

As a general rule in the diamond business ,any flour.other than None-faint, is discounted, when purchased or when sold!! Even in lower colors, although it may not be discounted as much as the better colors. It's just the way the industry looks at these stones.
I have recentely purchased a large 4.00ct.+ stone from a diamond mfg. for much less $$$$ than if the stone had no flour.or faint flour.
Ask any jlr.or any vendor how much they would give on a stone that has med-strong-vstrong flour.(without trading towards another item or diamond)and you'll see what they'll say:"Oh the stone has flour."And they will offer you less than if the stone had no flour.
Or you can do a search and see that most stones that are selling for less$$$$ are the ones that have med-strong-vst.
flour.

In my opinion a stone that has flour.has no negative effect on the stone as long as the stone is not oily or hazy.

 

[mdx]

Hi Valeria

White Flourescence

Nothing bad or abnormal same as blue just appears white when agitated by UV. Can also enhance low colors. You also get a red Florescence very cool.


Johan