First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a bargain?

[SF-Guy]

First time diamond shopping.

Looking for engagement ring. I would like to get my girlfriend a nice "eye-clean" stone. She likes Rounds and Cushions (including SQUARE Radiant). She is more of a quantity over quality gal, so I can likely move further up the color scale; G, H and I - would all likely be clear enough. Perhaps an E or F for the right eye-clean Si1.

My budget is around $10k, which should include a nice Halo or Twin Halo (french set pavee) and 18k OR Platinum split shank setting.

I like the idea of designing the ring myself, so I started my search first for the right diamond, but quickly realized that I have no idea what I am doing. During my search for Round Brilliants - a jeweler showed me a vintage stone (which includes the vintage setting).

Again I was looking for round brilliants and have no idea what "Old Mine Cut" even means. I did some research and apparently this stone is OLD, and was made by hand, before lasers and precision equipment.

So now I am actually sort of liking this stone - it's sort of romantic the way it was made. Some guys blood, sweat, tears went into this stone.

It's going to cost me $9k for this ring, is that a fair price? Are there better deals? My idea is to buy this ring JUST FOR THE STONE, and have it set in a Virtche(sp?) Halo setting . So my question is, will she be happy with this stone? Again she is more of a quantity over quality gal -- and this 1.79 ct is probably the largest stone I can find within my budget.

It looks clean to me, here's a quick rundown of specs from the GIA certification (2012):

SHAPE / SIZE:

Shape and Cutting Style ..... Cushion Brilliant
Measurements .......... 7.81 x 7.04 x 4.42 mm

GRADING:

Carat Weight ....... 1.79 carat
Color Grade ....... L
Clarity Grade ...... VS2

ADDITIONAL GRADING INFORMATION:

Finish:

Polish .......... Good
Symmetry ....... Fair
Flourescence .... None

Comments: None


Top of ring, culet large enough to drive a bus through -- but in an Old Mine Cut this is acceptible???



Even though it is an L color grade, it doesn't appear to be very yellow, at least not to my untrained eye?



And the GIA report:

 

[ecf8503]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

Well I like it.....

Depends on if you think your lady will. Has she seen an old cut like this? And a culet "large enough to drive a bus through" - does that mean you don't like the culet?

 

[SF-Guy]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

She's sweet enough to love anything I give her; so I feel a tremendous amount of pressure to make sure I do my homework and get her a respectable stone.

I didn't know anything about culets, and didn't actually notice the "hole" until I was going back through pictures of all the stones I had been looking at. After learning about Old Cuts I was introduced to this idea of culet size and came across a vintage dealer referenced here on PS and stole her bus analogy

I am okay with it - and think it gives the stone character.

It's the only 1.5ct plus stone I have seen in my budget -- and am beginning to wonder if that should be a red flag?

 

[SB621]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

Have you looked at Jbeg or Old World Diamonds?

I cant' tell from the one picture you posted about the facets on the OMC so I can't comment. However I'm not really in love with the setting but that is totally personal. However I would see those other 2 stores as I think they have good price points for antique diamonds.

 

[autumngems]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

I think you could find a better one

 

[JulieN]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

If you have to buy it for 9000 just to destroy the setting, no, it is not a good deal. You can definitely get a J or K 1.5+ ideal cut round for 9000.

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

I have several old mine cut diamonds in vintage pieces, though none of them is anywhere near 1.5ct! Like you, I like the history and romance of these old hand hewn stones. Unfortunately, most old mine cut stones don't perform as well as their more modern brethren. I don't mind that for fashion ring that I wear occasionally, but an engagement ring is a whole 'nuther matter. For me personally, if I were wearing a 1.5ct diamond engagement ring, I'd want that puppy to sparkle and shine like crazy!

 

[SF-Guy]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

Have you looked at Jbeg or Old World Diamonds?

Yes, JBEG is where I stole the "Bus Analogy". Both JBEG and OWD have really nice stones, but nothing in the 1.5ct PLUS range that is within my budget.

This particular stone on this setting is 1.79ct and I can walk away with the entire ring for $9k. I can then spend $1-2k more on a nicer, modern setting.

However I'm not really in love with the setting but that is totally personal.

Right! I'm not in love with the setting either - but the goal here is to buy the ring JUST for the stone. Would I be able to scrap the platinum setting and remaining pavee diamonds? What might I get for them? I believe there is .30 ct of F/G pavee stones.

I think you could find a better one

Thank you autumngems; Could you suggest some online retailers where I might be able to "find a better one" leveraging the power of the internet/online retailer but with a good track record for quality? I like this idea as I may also benefit from NO SALES TAX from the right retailer. I've previously limited my searching to only local brick and mortar because I feel like I need to SEE the stones in person because throughout my search I have seen a few GIA stones G, VS2, EX/EX/EX and all have the same round CUT but some just pop/sparkle/shine better than others... Thus I feel buying a diamond blind on the internet is a somewhat risky venture.

If you have to buy it for 9000 just to destroy the setting, no, it is not a good deal. You can definitely get a J or K 1.5+ ideal cut round for 9000.

Thanks for your insight Julie; Might you be able to point me in another direction to search?

I have several old mine cut diamonds in vintage pieces, though none of them is anywhere near 1.5ct! Like you, I like the history and romance of these old hand hewn stones. Unfortunately, most old mine cut stones don't perform as well as their more modern brethren. I don't mind that for fashion ring that I wear occasionally, but an engagement ring is a whole 'nuther matter. For me personally, if I were wearing a 1.5ct diamond engagement ring, I'd want that puppy to sparkle and shine like crazy!

VRBeauty; I very much agree with you!!! There is a tremendous amount of pressure on me to find that "perfect stone". Many of our friends who are engaged, or married, are wearing nice .80ct - 1.50ct Modern, Round Brilliant, stones. They have that fire & brilliance that I believe my girl expects. Thus the reason I was originally searching for round brilliant stones -- but I fell in love with this idea of the "hand hewn stone", feeling as though that is more romantic! Unfortunatley I realize that we very much live in an extremely materialistic world and while my girl will be happy with whatever I give her, I know she desires a ring that pops, sparkles, and shines like crazy!

 

[SB621]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

You probably wouldn't get anything for the diamonds. It is more work to take them out of the setting then probably they are worth. You will get scrap metal prices for the ring. I have no idea of the dollar mount but it wouldn't be much.

I get wanting size....I AM a size person, but I would wait a little longer to see if something else comes up that you like better. It is bad to rush into purchases....I would know!

Or buy from a place that has a great trade up policey like GOG or JA. That way you can trade up and get 100% of what you paid put towards a larger diamond when you have a larger budget.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

Here are some good options, in your price range, with most leaving enough wiggle room for a nice setting:

1.2ct, I, SI1 - under $8k
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.216-i-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104064812026

1.28ct, K, SI2 - under $7,500
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=962

1.62ct, K, SI2 - just under $10k
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=31

1.55ct, K, SI1 - $9,500
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11168/

1.56ct cushion, M, VS1 - $9k
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11176/

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

Hi SF guy,
I can't comment on any particular stone or seller.. but I can make general comments.
You have already mentioned a few aspects that come into play when comparing B&M versus online.
Sellers out of your state may not need to collect the sales tax ( you may be responsible to report it yourself, but that's another story), and overall, prices online tend to be lower- but you can't walk in and see the stone first hand.
About sparkle, fire and brilliance: This is a very individual preference.
Sometimes the term "performance" is used to imply a MRB is better- but I feel the use of that term is misplaced. A lot of people prefer the "performance" of an older stone.

Just offering an alternative view.....

 

[JulieN]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

1.63 J SI2 <$9000 7.54 mm http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.63-carat-j-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-223451

Inclusions are all under the crown facets, hopefully it does not have a haze.

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: First time diamond shopping; Is this OLD MINE CUT a barg

Hi SF guy,

About sparkle, fire and brilliance: This is a very individual preference.
Sometimes the term "performance" is used to imply a MRB is better- but I feel the use of that term is misplaced. A lot of people prefer the "performance" of an older stone.

Just offering an alternative view.....

Very true. Modern round brilliants, step cuts, old cuts... they all perform very differently, and each has its fans.

I think the question is - does the stone itself - the cut and facet pattern, and how it plays with the light - speak to you, apart from the value and the romance of the old mine cut? Is it a beautiful stone? (Remember that most places that sell jewelry will show the stone in optimal lighting - try to see how the stone looks in less than optimal lighting too.) And the next question is - do you think your girlfriend would like this diamond as the center of her engagement ring? Assuming it's performance is more subtle that that of a more modern stone - how might she feel about trading some flash for some history?