shape
carat
color
clarity

First Time Buyer - Old Euro Cut

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Been looking for an Old mine/ euro in Aus for a couple of months and narrowed it down to these two. Would love to hear opinions and thoughts of the quality of these two stones? Being a newbie, I’m going off loving the stones in person rather than any technicalities but would love to hear others’ thoughts? (Why can’t I upload videos?) thanks so much in advance

#1. OEC E si2 1.05 around 6.9
(need to get all the specs)


Video Outdoor Light - Bottom Stone IMG_8369.mov
Video Indoor IMG_8340.mov
Video Indoor IMG_8343.mov

IMG_8342.jpeg

#2
1.70ct 7.9mm J-K/VS2
Video Indoor IMG_8364.mov
Video in Wax Band Indoor IMG_8368.mov

IMG_8386.png
 

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lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,938
Upload videos to YouTube or imgur and then post links. Otherwise we can't access.
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Upload videos to YouTube or imgur and then post links. Otherwise we can't access.
I’ve tried uploading on you tube - not sure if it helps
#1
#1 bottom stone in this video -

#2 in wax mould
#2
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
Hi fellow Aussie!

Those videos are too far away and the moving around was too fast for me to access the cut quality. I just wanted to add that an E is very white and probably going to cost more than the J/K. Are they both GIA certified?

Which one do you prefer?
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Hi fellow Aussie!

Those videos are too far away and the moving around was too fast for me to access the cut quality. I just wanted to add that an E is very white and probably going to cost more than the J/K. Are they both GIA certified?

Which one do you prefer?

Hi Mary Jane - thanks for the reply, I’ll try and get better quality videos next time I pop in to see them this week. I know the 1.7 #2 is not certified but can get certified and the #1 which is the E is certified from memory - I’ll get the cert number this week. They are both from reputable jewellers though so I’m very comfortable buying from them. The E is actually cheaper than than the bigger one, even though it’s much whiter tho I’m not shy of warmer stones so for me colour is fine with either. I actually wondered if the E is too white

I think I prefer #2 for the size - but I want to make sure I’m picking a good quality stone hence why I’m asking for opinions as I’m not sure I’m judging them properly based on quality
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
@158305 make sure that they're both GIA certified and if the uncerted one is not then it should be discounted. If they are certified by different labs then it's also not helpful to compare apples with oranges. Jewellers or not they only want to sell you things but it's up to you to do your due diligence.

From what I've seen lol which isn't very much my preference is #2 as well. It still faces up white enough and should be big enough to see the faceting.

When taking videos of the diamond just make sure to zoom in a little ;)2
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
I am very very wary of an old cut that weighs 1.05ct and has a 6.9mm spread. I feel fairly confident in saying that is overly shallow and will suffer in light play — insisting fevers, not much fire. I would rule it out in that basis. I think this is part of why the videos are not informative . It lacks scintillation.

The second looks much better cut.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
Oh that's such a good observation @Dreamer_D I didn't even notice the measurements were listed. I agree an overly shallow stone may appear white but lack the fire and scintillation. No wonder why I only saw white (my eyes aren't very good these days).

As for old cuts in general most of us prefer a little tint/warmth that helps reflect the colours in its environment and make it visually more appealing than just a white stone. In saying that I just want to make sure OP is paying for a J or K if that's what they are estimating it at. It could be an L/M and the price point would be different.

Also just wanted to add @158305 your name is listed on the YouTube account with the links posted so you might want to remove it.
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Oh that's such a good observation @Dreamer_D I didn't even notice the measurements were listed. I agree an overly shallow stone may appear white but lack the fire and scintillation. No wonder why I only saw white (my eyes aren't very good these days).

As for old cuts in general most of us prefer a little tint. In saying that I just want to make sure OP is paying for a J or K if that's what they are estimating it at. It could be an L/M and the price point would be different.
Hey guys yes the first stone is quite shallow, I noticed this too when looking from the side - I’ll try and take a photo next time - can I ask what fire and scintillating mean exactly - as in sparkle? I’m trying to google what these mean from a diamond perspective but thought I’d ask anyway

Cause even tho it was shallow - it was very sparkly in various angles but maybe we’re not talking about the same thing

Oh and for ref the stone is 12.5k aud - does that seem fair? I thought it was?
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
@158305 so when looking at diamonds there's 3 things.. brilliance or white light return, scintillation which is the sparkle you talked about and the fire which is coloured sparkles.

Is the 12.5k for the 1.7ct #2? Does it have a GIA certificate? If it does then that's a good price.
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Yes 12.5 for the 1.7 but It’s not certified
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
So there's a huge price difference between diamonds depending on their colour and clarity.

This is from Old World Diamonds (note that this is in USD) as a reference:
Screenshot_2024-06-30-16-01-04-53_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

As you can see the price for a J and an L vary by almost a half. I'm just concerned it might not even be an L, could be an M or N even. Then it's not such a deal after all.
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
This is such a good ref point - I really appreciate it. I’ll speak to the jeweller re getting it certified so I know what I’m paying for and keep u guys posted
 

lulu_ma

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
4,306
Also, keep in mind that a non-GIA cert can be off for two color grades.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
Scintillation is what you might call sparkle and fire is bold flash and coloured light return.

All diamonds look good when you are not very experienced with diamonds. Over time if you know what good cut is and how it affects light play then you learn to see what good cut looks like and see how t makes a diamond look so much better. I am trying to help you start out with a better cut diamond rather than coming back here in a few years saying “my diamond isn’t well cut and now I’ve seen better cut stones and I regret my purchase”.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
So there's a huge price difference between diamonds depending on their colour and clarity.

This is from Old World Diamonds (note that this is in USD) as a reference:
Screenshot_2024-06-30-16-01-04-53_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

As you can see the price for a J and an L vary by almost a half. I'm just concerned it might not even be an L, could be an M or N even. Then it's not such a deal after all.

Just to add to this, 12k AUD is only 8k USD.

But the point remains. Color and clarity have a huge impact on price so they need to be considered carefully.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,938
I am very very wary of an old cut that weighs 1.05ct and has a 6.9mm spread. I feel fairly confident in saying that is overly shallow and will suffer in light play — insisting fevers, not much fire. I would rule it out in that basis. I think this is part of why the videos are not informative . It lacks scintillation.

The second looks much better cut.

Exactly what I was going to say!
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Hi everyone I tried to get a better video of the 1.7 (I’ve eliminated the other 1.05) so hopefully these can give u a better idea of the stone quality? Would appreciate any further thoughts on it - I think I really like it but am so not confident




This is with a similar band that I’d want it in:

This is in a row with the 1.7 on the far left, another J in the middle and the 1.05 E on the right:

 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
It is very nicely cut I have no concerns there. Things to examine/determine:

What is the state of the girdle? Is it bruted or is it knife edge or is it faceted?

Are there any cavities or naturals remaining around the girdle or elsewhere? Often these are on the pavilion.

What are the inclusions and where are they located?

Does the vendor have any GIA graded stones in house close to the purported color grade for you to compare for color? As stated earlier this has a huge impact on price. Comparing face down on a white surface in neutral lighting is a start for assessing color.

I would ask the vendor to send it to GIA. Make the sale contingent on the outcome and get this agreement in writing. You pay for stone and GIA report. If stone come back within whatever range you feel comfortable with (often 2 grades) then sale is final and you keep stone and report, if not you are refunded for both stone and report and seller keeps both.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
I agree out of the three you looked at this is a clear stand out.

It seems like it has an extremely thin girdle so your setting choice is great as it'll protect the stone.

@Dreamer_D suggestion about looking at other GIA stones is also useful. This will help your eyes compare the tint if any is visible and if it bothers you.

Did the jeweller offer you a loupe to check out the inclusions?
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
I agree out of the three you looked at this is a clear stand out.

It seems like it has an extremely thin girdle so your setting choice is great as it'll protect the stone.

@Dreamer_D suggestion about looking at other GIA stones is also useful. This will help your eyes compare the tint if any is visible and if it bothers you.

Did the jeweller offer you a loupe to check out the inclusions?

Hi Maryjane04 - thanks for the reply. I have looked at it in comparison to other GIA certified stones and side by side I can see the warmth but i actually prefer it - my main concern is overpaying for the stone.

The jeweller did also let me see it under a loupe and its very clean, I couldnt really see anything and he also said the same.

The stone is working out to be about 11.5k aud which is about $7.5k usd - which based on what ive seen is a pretty fair price, its just not GIA certified which makes me nervous but its for my engagement ring and at the end of the day, i do love the stone
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
It is very nicely cut I have no concerns there. Things to examine/determine:

What is the state of the girdle? Is it bruted or is it knife edge or is it faceted?

Are there any cavities or naturals remaining around the girdle or elsewhere? Often these are on the pavilion.

What are the inclusions and where are they located?

Does the vendor have any GIA graded stones in house close to the purported color grade for you to compare for color? As stated earlier this has a huge impact on price. Comparing face down on a white surface in neutral lighting is a start for assessing color.

I would ask the vendor to send it to GIA. Make the sale contingent on the outcome and get this agreement in writing. You pay for stone and GIA report. If stone come back within whatever range you feel comfortable with (often 2 grades) then sale is final and you keep stone and report, if not you are refunded for both stone and report and seller keeps both.

Hi Dreamer_D sorry for the late reply

the girdle looked bruted to me and maybe bearded?
We couldn't really see any visible inclusions on the stone even under a loupe
the jeweler also said the same and that it was very clean

i think its a good idea to make the sale contingent upon getting it certified - im in australia so im not sure if we can get it GIA certified easily - ill find out though

If it is a true J/K VS2 1.7 old euro - do you think 7.5k usd is a fair price to pay>

thanks so much for the tip
 

lulu_ma

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
4,306
Hi Dreamer_D sorry for the late reply

the girdle looked bruted to me and maybe bearded?
We couldn't really see any visible inclusions on the stone even under a loupe
the jeweler also said the same and that it was very clean

i think its a good idea to make the sale contingent upon getting it certified - im in australia so im not sure if we can get it GIA certified easily - ill find out though

If it is a true J/K VS2 1.7 old euro - do you think 7.5k usd is a fair price to pay>

thanks so much for the tip

What GIA color stones did you compare the 1.7 ct to? Even if it is an M color $7500 is not a bad price.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,680
I saw it next to an E and an H - oh thats good to hear, i just saw a post earlier from Sincity on insta and i was thinking maybe its overpriced cause the stone she posted is so beautiful and its only 5900

Pricing in Australia will always be higher than in the US. You can get a better deal over there with a few well known IG sellers such as Alex Park, Gilded Lane etc but if you love this stone then work it out with the jeweller to get GIA certed. Buying from overseas will attract taxes as well so that's an added cost.


The stone from SinCity is more an old mine cut which is more wonky than an old European cut.

You may or may not want to upgrade this stone in the future. Having a GIA cert will make it easier in the future if you ever need to sell it. I made that mistake with my first diamond purchase.
 
Last edited:

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
Hi Dreamer_D sorry for the late reply

the girdle looked bruted to me and maybe bearded?
We couldn't really see any visible inclusions on the stone even under a loupe
the jeweler also said the same and that it was very clean

i think its a good idea to make the sale contingent upon getting it certified - im in australia so im not sure if we can get it GIA certified easily - ill find out though

If it is a true J/K VS2 1.7 old euro - do you think 7.5k usd is a fair price to pay>

thanks so much for the tip

I can’t find inclusions in my SI2 stones sooooooo…. Wouldn’t go by that!
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
I guess you have to weigh the ease of buying something you have seen in person and know you love. Returns from AUS could be hard! Plus shipping, duty, and anxiety. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to buy the local stone. It also faces up larger given its make.

ETA I like the cut of the local one better than the IG options too. It has perfect OEC proportions with a teensy table and high crown. Those are very hard to find.
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
Pricing in Australia will always be higher than in the US. You can get a better deal over there with a few well known IG sellers such as Alex Park, Gilded Lane etc but if you love this stone then work it out with the jeweller to get GIA certed. Buying from overseas will attract taxes as well so that's an added cost.


The stone from SinCity is more an old mine cut which is more wonky than an old European cut.

You may or may not want to upgrade this stone in the future. Having a GIA cert will make it easier in the future if you ever need to sell it. I made that mistake with my first diamond purchase.

hey maryjane04 - i just realised you were in melbourne as well!?!
do you have any favourite places to see old cuts in melbourne?

can i get it GIA certified here in Melbourne? also if i dont get it certified now - can I not get it certified later if I do decide to sell it? i guess now would be good as its still loose though
 

158305

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2024
Messages
17
I guess you have to weigh the ease of buying something you have seen in person and know you love. Returns from AUS could be hard! Plus shipping, duty, and anxiety. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to buy the local stone. It also faces up larger given its make.

ETA I like the cut of the local one better than the IG options too. It has perfect OEC proportions with a teensy table and high crown. Those are very hard to find.

absolutely, and thats exactly how im feeling - ive seen quite a fair few stones locally and i think ive been quite picky as well so imagine if i didnt like what came in the post omg, id be so upset

good to hear you think the stone has good proportions, i think my issue has been its my first old cut well actually my firs proper diamond purchase as its for my engagement ring and im lacking confidence in making the purchase so its been really reassuring hearing your opinions

are you also in australia @Dreamer_D?
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,338
hey maryjane04 - i just realised you were in melbourne as well!?!
do you have any favourite places to see old cuts in melbourne?

can i get it GIA certified here in Melbourne? also if i dont get it certified now - can I not get it certified later if I do decide to sell it? i guess now would be good as its still loose though

You can get a lab report any time. My 1.89ct does not have a lab report. I would get one if I ever sold it (I never will).
 
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