First time buyer looking for assistance

[Ringsthething]

Hi all,

Before explaining my situation, I just want to give a serious thank you to all the contributors on this site. I've lurked for a while now, and it's amazing how much I've been able to learn. Whether it's just a hobby or altruism that pushes some of you to post, I can attest that it makes a huge difference to people like me who start out knowing absolutely nothing about diamonds, but do know how to Google.

Here's my situation: my budget for a round diamond is in the 25k-35k range--ideally somewhere in the middle of that range, but if I'm going to see a serious increase in performance from 31k to 34k, that's fine with me. I'm coming into this without much of a hang up on being "mind-clean" as to any particular facet and definitely prioritize optical performance and size. So based on what I've read thus far, I've targeted something in the G-I, VS2 range with no fluorescence. I also definitely want a diamond that's going to be perfectly cut--whether that be AGS000 with great proportions or a CBI/BGD/ACA super-ideal, I'm very open to suggestions. Size is probably where the rubber meets the road for me. I definitely want to stay significantly over 2 carats, and ideally in the neighborhood of 3 carats. My girlfriend is not a gemologist--she's probably only going to notice size and performance (cut), and as long as there are no visual imperfections to a layperson's eye (i.e., visible inclusions or cloudiness or a noticeable tint), she's going to be very happy. So I don't want to trade off too much on size if the corresponding improvements to color/clarity/cut are not going to be noticeable to her. But of course, I still want a very high quality diamond.

That brings me to my questions for you all:

Given a ~30k budget, what would you all do in my situation? Would you stick to super-ideal or look for a better bargain on a GIA XXX/AGS000 from James Allen? Would you drop to an I in color in order to get around 3 carats, or would you keep to something whiter on the color spectrum even if that means dropping to 2.5 carats? And is there anything else I'm not considering? I am not sensitive--please just let me know if you think any of my thought process is mistaken or downright dumb. Much rather be told I'm an idiot now than realize it after the ink is dry.

Below are several of the diamonds I've found that fit what I'm looking for--I'd love to hear any comparison between them. And of course I'd be awfully grateful for any thoughts on these, or for links to any other diamonds I should take a look at. Thank you!

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3932394.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4000699.htm
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/2.541-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104098900014
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10069
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9790
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5071292

 

[unsettled]

You have a very healthy budget and I have no doubt the experts here can help you find the perfect ring! I won't comment on the diamonds you have listed because I am not an expert. But for that kind of money, I would want a super ideal.

 

[sledge]

Of the choices you listed, I prefer the WF stones. Biggest and least expensive. Also, killer upgrade program when/if that ever is an issue. It's simple, spend $1 more and get full credit towards another stone. Also, they have a vast selection of settings.

Both are I VS2 and I personally wouldn't pay for the upgrade to go to H and/or VS1. Being super ideal, I don't think you will be able to tell color from an H to an I unless side by side. And since you are trying to maximize your size within a budget constraint, then a VS2 will work great (assuming it's eye clean, and it should be). You could probably even drop down to an SI1, maybe an SI2 although that may be harder given the larger overall size.

Not to mention, being a branded ACA H&A, you are ensuring you are buying cream of the crop cut yet you aren't maximizing your budget.

If you want an alternate, I'd have to throw out this BGD stone: 2.70ct, H, SI1

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/2.700-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-104085060021

What makes this attractive is BGD is having an 8% off sale on D-H stones....

$36,455 wire price - 8% ($2,916) = $33,539

Still a little more expensive, but you get an H color and a BGD stone. Upgrade policy isn't as generous. Have to spend $1 more and upgrade 2 of 3 criteria: color, clarity or carat.

 

[LLJsmom]

For that price I would want super ideal. The branded ones also vet for the little things that may affect beauty, graining, specific types of inclusions etc. I would consider all the ones you are considering ACA CBI GOG AND Victor Canera because I would get a setting from him too. I am biased for his settings. My 2c.

 

[Ringsthething]

Thank you all for the replies! Super helpful. So it seems the consensus is that given my budget and what I’m looking for, I should stick to super ideal, and it’s not worth going to a G or H color if that means dropping down to 2.3-2.5 carats. Any dissenting opinions on those?

 

[sledge]

So earlier when I said I wouldn't bother with an H, it's not because it's "not worth" it. Just with the options you presented, you had $4k of difference and for that amount I don't think jumping 1 color grade will make a huge difference.

With that said, every person has a different sensitivity to color, clarity, etc. Ultimately your vision determines this at the end of the day. Charts make the color differences seem obvious, but unless you have something to compare against then I think it becomes harder to tell. Also, there is some truth in the fact that as you go down the color scale, the colors are more subjective meaning you could have a high I which would be more white and closer to an H, or a low I which would have more tint and maybe closer to a J.

For these reasons, I think it might be worthwhile for you to visit a local jewelry store and have them pull AGS certified stones of the same general size (2.5-3ct) and in varying colors (G, H & I). Ask for 000 cut stones if they have them; otherwise, their best cut stones matching the other criteria. Just make sure the cut quality is the same for all the stones; otherwise, you may pick a different colored stone because you like the cut better. Have them mix & match them in a line so you aren't aware which stones have what specs. Then move them around and listen to your eyes. It might be easier to start eliminating those you don't like in the beginning.

When you end up with a final stone, ask for the specs. You might be surprised. I read a thread by @Wink yesterday where he suggested such a test and concluded that most people naturally pick super ideals because of their superior cut, and generally lower colors than they initially thought they "needed" or wanted.

The point of this exercise is to first determine what your eyes like and where/if you can tell a color difference between a G/H/I colored stone. If you can't tell, then why pay? If you can tell a difference, then you have to make a judgment call if the extra money involved is worth the small/big difference you see in the colors.

I already provided one alternate for an H colored stone that I feel is very safe from BGD. Here is a G and H from WF that may fit the bill as well. These are both SI1's and fit your budget. Dimensionally, the G is only 0.10mm difference in size (this is less than 1/196th of an inch). It's also at the top end of your budget. The H is about 0.5mm difference, or about 1/48th of an inch smaller and is priced at $24k.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3943174.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3639112.htm

 

[OoohShiny]

Will this be a surprise proposal?

Have you looked at rings/diamonds together already?

If so, did you look at a range of colours to determine how colour-sensitive your good lady is?


An I should be icy-white in a SuperIdeal from the top and most viewing angles, but there will be some tint from the side.

That's not necessarily good or bad, it is personal choice, but your lady may have expectations/preferences!


What ring style are you thinking of? If a halo, that reduces the amount of diamond that can be seen from the side, so one can go lower in colour and still 'get away with it'

 

[shoechick]

To echo what others have already mentioned...go for the super ideal cut.

Go to a local jewelry store that sells Heats on Fire diamonds. This really helped me to appreciate the difference in quality of a super ideal. I also looked at them next to very nice diamonds that were non HoF diamonds. And don't let the sales person tell you about any of the specs. Just look at them. Look at them through the loop and look at the sides of the stones also. You may not notice any color looking at a diamond face up but will be more likely to see color from the sides (if you are color sensitive).

For what it's worth, I just purchased a H from WF. I looked at H HoF in a store before purchasing and held it up to my current G. Could not see color difference. What I did see was brilliance and sparkle for days that my diamond didn't have. And I could see a difference between the brilliance in the non HoF stones. Cut quality makes a huge difference!!

 

[unsettled]

Thank you all for the replies! Super helpful. So it seems the consensus is that given my budget and what I’m looking for, I should stick to super ideal, and it’s not worth going to a G or H color if that means dropping down to 2.3-2.5 carats. Any dissenting opinions on those?

It sort of depends on the situation. I would be over the moon at a stone that size. My lifestyle/social circle, I would not feel comfortable wearing a ring any larger than 2.5 carats - and that would be pushing it. Especially if it's going in a halo. Have you looked at rings together? Do you know what she is expecting?

When my (now) husband and I looked at rings, I was only ever trying on anything up to 1 carat. When he proposed with a 1.5 carat, I was beyond thrilled because I had set up the expectation in my head that it would be about 1 carat. Had I been trying on 2 carat rings, I may have been a little let down.

I have a GIA H (but not super ideal), and I haven't looked at many diamonds in person. Mine has always been perfectly bright and white to me but I can see the very subtle color difference between my center stone and my 7 stone band from WF. I am not bothered by it, I just see it. But I bet an ACA I would be identical in color to my H.

That is lots of rambling, but maybe it's somewhat helpful.

 

[Ringsthething]

So earlier when I said I wouldn't bother with an H, it's not because it's "not worth" it. Just with the options you presented, you had $4k of difference and for that amount I don't think jumping 1 color grade will make a huge difference.

With that said, every person has a different sensitivity to color, clarity, etc. Ultimately your vision determines this at the end of the day. Charts make the color differences seem obvious, but unless you have something to compare against then I think it becomes harder to tell. Also, there is some truth in the fact that as you go down the color scale, the colors are more subjective meaning you could have a high I which would be more white and closer to an H, or a low I which would have more tint and maybe closer to a J.

For these reasons, I think it might be worthwhile for you to visit a local jewelry store and have them pull AGS certified stones of the same general size (2.5-3ct) and in varying colors (G, H & I). Ask for 000 cut stones if they have them; otherwise, their best cut stones matching the other criteria. Just make sure the cut quality is the same for all the stones; otherwise, you may pick a different colored stone because you like the cut better. Have them mix & match them in a line so you aren't aware which stones have what specs. Then move them around and listen to your eyes. It might be easier to start eliminating those you don't like in the beginning.

When you end up with a final stone, ask for the specs. You might be surprised. I read a thread by @Wink yesterday where he suggested such a test and concluded that most people naturally pick super ideals because of their superior cut, and generally lower colors than they initially thought they "needed" or wanted.

The point of this exercise is to first determine what your eyes like and where/if you can tell a color difference between a G/H/I colored stone. If you can't tell, then why pay? If you can tell a difference, then you have to make a judgment call if the extra money involved is worth the small/big difference you see in the colors.

I already provided one alternate for an H colored stone that I feel is very safe from BGD. Here is a G and H from WF that may fit the bill as well. These are both SI1's and fit your budget. Dimensionally, the G is only 0.10mm difference in size (this is less than 1/196th of an inch). It's also at the top end of your budget. The H is about 0.5mm difference, or about 1/48th of an inch smaller and is priced at $24k.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3943174.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3639112.htm

@sledge Thank you!! This is extremely helpful--I really appreciate it. I will definitely try to run that experiment. One of the problems I've had thus far is finding stores that have an array of 2-3 carat, excellent or ideal cut loose diamonds in the right colors on hand without me asking them to bring them in ahead of time (and putting down a deposit to get them to do so). From what I've seen so far, I can definitely tell the difference between an F and an I, even face up, but it's not really a $15k difference to me. It takes me a lot of contorting to even tell, and that's only because they're next to each other. I definitely don't see the I on its own and think "that looks yellow." But I am a bit concerned over whether it might become more noticeable to me over time, or in different types of lighting. And of course I'd hate if the difference is noticeable to your average viewer. I don't want the diamond to appear to be anything less than very high quality.

I've been a bit reluctant to look at SI1's just because I don't trust myself to evaluate how "eye-clean" they really are, and I don't want a diamond with inclusions that my girlfriend will be able to spot after living with the ring for an extended period. Do you think the ones you sent along will be eye-clean even from up close to the ring owner?

 

[Ringsthething]

Will this be a surprise proposal?

Have you looked at rings/diamonds together already?

If so, did you look at a range of colours to determine how colour-sensitive your good lady is?


An I should be icy-white in a SuperIdeal from the top and most viewing angles, but there will be some tint from the side.

That's not necessarily good or bad, it is personal choice, but your lady may have expectations/preferences!


What ring style are you thinking of? If a halo, that reduces the amount of diamond that can be seen from the side, so one can go lower in colour and still 'get away with it'

It's a surprise unfortunately, so I don't have the benefit of looking with her. I do know that size is a big deal to her just based on casual conversation, but that's about it. I don't think I mind a bit of tint from the side, but I'm probably going to have to look a bit more closely at set rings to see exactly how obvious it'll be.

 

[OoohShiny]

It's a surprise unfortunately, so I don't have the benefit of looking with her. I do know that size is a big deal to her just based on casual conversation, but that's about it. I don't think I mind a bit of tint from the side, but I'm probably going to have to look a bit more closely at set rings to see exactly how obvious it'll be.

Does she have any friends who can keep a secret? By which I mean *actually* keep a secret? lol

You could ask them to 'go shopping' for a day and 'just happen upon' a jewellery store where they could check out different colour stones (GIA or AGS only, so you know the colour grades are accurate), and then they could feed back to you in secret later.

Other than that... I think it would be safe down to an H, and an I would probably be about the absolute 'safe' limit, in terms of not having too obvious a tint that she may or may not like. That's my understanding from what others have said on the forum!

I think you should definitely check out AGS and GIA-graded options to see where your limit lies, then take a judgement call on what your good lady might like.

It is highly likely that we can find you something that completely outperforms what her friends are wearing, regardless of colour, so she may well not care if it has tint from the side

 

[sledge]

When looking at stones, just remember....carat weight sounds more impressive than the actual dimensions. It takes about 0.20mm for a normal human eye to detect a size difference. So for example that G colored stone I linked earlier will look almost the same as the 2.8 I's you posted. There is only about 0.10mm of difference. Just mentioning this because you said your girl got hung up on size. I'm not saying that's bad, but when you are talking several thousand dollars for a difference you can't see, then I'd encourage her to get okay with rounding up, lol.

Remember, weight is based on volume (L x W x D). I say this because part of the weight is not just in the horizontal planes (length & width) but also in the vertical plane (depth). That said, a 2.8ct stone is taller than a 2.6ct stone also, not just longer & wider. Consequently, part of the money difference is for vertical height you or your SO will never see.

In regards to the color, I think you will be fine if you looked at an F & I and could barely tell the difference, and already concluded it wasn't worth a $15k premium. Do you recall the cut quality of those stones? I only ask because the super ideal H&A stones we are talking about tend to look whiter and bigger because they are so well cut above an average stone. And no, your stone shouldn't yellow or look cheaper over time. Just have your girl keep it clean, that is all that is required. Well along with normal periodic maintenance checks (loose prongs, etc).

As far as clarity, I do think you will be okay with an SI1. Ultimately, you need to trust your eyes with the clarity. Having went through this myself, I do know that WF defines "eye clean" as unable to see any inclusions at 10" away from the top view of the diamond. However, it is possible you MAY be able to see an inclusion from the side. When I was looking I told WF I wanted my stones "eye clean" from 6" away rather it was top or the side. And they had SI1's that met that criteria. But really, if you want to know for sure you need to call WF and ask them to put a temp hold on a few diamonds you are looking at and then have their gemologist pull them and do a visual inspection. They will call you during the inspection and describe what they are seeing in each stone, which is more white, which has more fire, etc. So if you clearly describe your definition of eye clean to them, they will adjust their evaluation to that criteria and report back their findings.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[gm89uk]

If you are buying from a super ideal vendor, they can thoroughly vet SI stones for you and you would be safe to buy them to help get larger carat.

Are you likely to ever consider an upgrade?