First Time Buy - Advice Needed

[amnamn180]

Hello,

I am currently looking for a diamond to set into an engagement ring. I am in Tampa, FL.

I have been to a number of places, and there are two sellers in particular I am leaning towards.

One has a 1ct SI2 G (IGI cert) for $3900 and a 1ct SI2 G (GIA cert) for $5200.
The other has a 1ct SI2 G (no cert) for $4500. They are honest and has said it measures 6.2mm which is approx 0.2mm smaller than what you would expect in a standard 1ct stone.

I am being drawn to the one with no cert, because he is a gemologist with 40 years experience (not just a sales person as in the other store) and the stone looks beautiful. He hand makes jewellery and is able to custom make an engagement ring.

My question is, how essential is the certificate? And how can an IGI certified diamond be less expensive than a non-certified diamond of the same quality, etc.

I have a budget which I am trying to stick to. Should I go for a smaller, but certified diamond of a better quality? So many questions and the whole experience is quite overwhelming.

 

[mrsctobe]

I think what matters most is that you see it in person, you like it alot, and it fits your budget. Since there are lots of experts on this site, you can get into a rabbit hole of ideal cuts, proportions, etc.. but whats most important is that you get it in your hands, and love it.

 

[crbl999]

If the stone is 6.2 mm it is steep deep (it will look small for its carat weight) and will have the ring of death (noticeable light leakage). It might look nice under fancy showroom lights, but in the real world it will be a dud. A well cut 1 ct stone should be 6.4X mm.

The cert is essential IMO because it tells you exactly what you are buying. Otherwise you are relying on the person who is selling you the stone and it most likely is not what they say it is or they would send it in to be graded and charge more for it. The discrepancies in the pricing is enough to make me run.

When it comes to buying diamonds cut is king. You do not need to purchase a super ideal hearts and arrows stone, but you should stay within recommended PS proportions.

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

You're on the right track; go for a smaller, GIA or AGS certed stone with recommended proportions. If you would like help selecting a diamond there are many prosumers here that will be glad to assist. Let us know your budget, color, clarity, carat preferences and we can give you some different options or point you to a trusted vendor.

 

[WillyDiamond]

If the stone is 6.2 mm it is steep deep (it will look small for its carat weight) and will have the ring of death (noticeable light leakage). It might look nice under fancy showroom lights, but in the real world it will be a dud. A well cut 1 ct stone should be 6.4X mm.

The cert is essential IMO because it tells you exactly what you are buying. Otherwise you are relying on the person who is selling you the stone and it most likely is not what they say it is or they would send it in to be graded and charge more for it. The discrepancies in the pricing is enough to make me run.

When it comes to buying diamonds cut is king. You do not need to purchase a super ideal hearts and arrows stone, but you should stay within recommended PS proportions.

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

You're on the right track; go for a smaller, GIA or AGS certed stone with recommended proportions. If you would like help selecting a diamond there are many prosumers here that will be glad to assist. Let us know your budget, color, clarity, carat preferences and we can give you some different options or point you to a trusted vendor.

You hit the nail right on the head.

 

[amnamn180]

If the stone is 6.2 mm it is steep deep (it will look small for its carat weight) and will have the ring of death (noticeable light leakage). It might look nice under fancy showroom lights, but in the real world it will be a dud. A well cut 1 ct stone should be 6.4X mm.

The cert is essential IMO because it tells you exactly what you are buying. Otherwise you are relying on the person who is selling you the stone and it most likely is not what they say it is or they would send it in to be graded and charge more for it. The discrepancies in the pricing is enough to make me run.

When it comes to buying diamonds cut is king. You do not need to purchase a super ideal hearts and arrows stone, but you should stay within recommended PS proportions.

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

You're on the right track; go for a smaller, GIA or AGS certed stone with recommended proportions. If you would like help selecting a diamond there are many prosumers here that will be glad to assist. Let us know your budget, color, clarity, carat preferences and we can give you some different options or point you to a trusted vendor.

Thank you for the advice.

As a craftsperson, he was honest and said it was not sent for grading because he already knows the size is not 'perfect'. I looked at the diamond in natural light, it certainly looked very nice. I am going back in a few days and he is going to have a number of diamonds lined up, some that are certified, some that are not, so that I can look and make a decision based on what I like the look of and price.

My budget is up to $4500 for the stone. I am ideally looking for 1ct and would like it to be up to D-I in colour (not yellow).

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Here are two beautiful AGS certified diamonds from Brian Gavin Diamonds (superideal diamond vendor). They are under 1ct but the face up dimensions are in the range of the diamonds you are considering, are certified by highly regarded AGS, cut is the best of the best and VS clarity. These well cut diamonds tend to also look bigger than their carat weight due to their edge to edge brightness.

0.894 I VS2 (6.17 x 6.18mm) Bank Wire Price: $4,318

0.894 I VS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 0.894 carat I VS2 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Signature Hearts and Arrows Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

0.875 G VS1 (6.16 x 6.13mm) Bank Wire Price: $4,661 (a touch above budget but looks good)

0.875 G VS1 Brian Gavin Blue

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 0.875 carat G VS1 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Blue Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

The 0.875 G VS1 is from BGD's Blue range which has blue fluorescence but each stone is verified to have no negative impact on performance. Blue fluorescence can make diamonds appear whiter in some cases too. Here is a video Brian Gavin talking about his Blue range of diamonds:

Although there are currently no photos or videos of those stones listed yet (probably because they are very new; you can see from the AGS cert date), you can request these from BGD so they can perhaps prioritize getting those shoots for you. That is what I did recently for a stone that I bought was from the October batch they received.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Also BGD offer new customers $100 off for first purchase when you register with them first before purchase (bottom left of website has registration link). In November, they often run deals (towards Black Friday/Cyber Monday) so some nice deals may pop up over this period too. If it does, you can choose to use the $100 or the deal, whichever is more favorable.

 

[Kaycee2018]

Your best bet is to stick with a diamond graded by a reputable third party independent lab (AGS or GIA). The cost for diamonds to be graded by those labs is minimal, so generally the only reason a diamond isn’t sent to AGS or GIA for grading is because it can be sold at a higher price point based on higher specs from either a less reputable lab or as ungraded, with only a jeweler or appraisers opinion of the specs.

For maximum brightness, sparkle and fire, look for diamonds with the specs shown in the link @crbl999 posted above. Or for ease, you can just go with a branded “super ideal” from Whiteflash or Brian Gavin, since those diamonds have been fully vetted for light return, eye cleanliness, etc. (albeit at a premium in price).

A well cut diamond with angles that work properly together to reflect light through the stone and back out the top to the viewers eyes will appear brighter and have more sparkle and fire in a variety of lighting. A diamond whose proportions don’t work well together can appear dull, dark and lifeless in some, if not most lighting. Keep in mind jewelry store lighting is specifically designed to make all diamonds, so matter how poorly they are cut, appear bright and sparkly, so that lighting is not a good indication of how the diamond will appear in real world, every day situations.

GL!

ETA: $4500 is tight for a 1ct diamond with those specs. Staying just under the carat mark will save you some money since a premium is added to stones at carat marks. Here is a pro looking option from BN, though a bit over your budge:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD17568257?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

ETA another option, though the cut/symmetry don‘t appear to be as good as the option above, but it will likely out perform the options mentioned in your original post (the lab reports are needed in order to confirm though). NOTE: this one is falls outside PS recommendations, but I wanted to add it as something in your price range that would likely be a better option than the ones you’ve been offered.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD16717198?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

 

[kb1gra]

Thank you for the advice.

As a craftsperson, he was honest and said it was not sent for grading because he already knows the size is not 'perfect'. I looked at the diamond in natural light, it certainly looked very nice. I am going back in a few days and he is going to have a number of diamonds lined up, some that are certified, some that are not, so that I can look and make a decision based on what I like the look of and price.

My budget is up to $4500 for the stone. I am ideally looking for 1ct and would like it to be up to D-I in colour (not yellow).

You are being had.

sorry, but the dimensions are “not perfect” because it’s not cut correctly.

he knows this stone will come back with a report proving it’s not cut to standard, and therefore is trying to sell it on his opinion for more than what it would be worth with a GIA cert. If it were to be worth what he said, then having it certified would be no problem - he could get more for it with the cert (unless the cert says it’s not what he says it is) a GIA dossier with laser inscription is less than $100 last I checked.

there’s no purpose in paying for weight you can’t see in a round cut diamond. Defeats the entire point of getting 1ct if it looks like .8 ct, no?

 

[amnamn180]

Thanks all, I think I am going to lean towards a GIA/IGI/AGS cert diamond (purely for peace of mind).

I was really set on having a 1ct, even at SI2 as I am sure they are still lovely to look at. However, I'm not sure my budget is going to fit unfortunately.

 

[DejaWiz]

I will echo the advice of the others: focus on cut quality above all else. Going with a properly proportioned and performance-vetted sub-1ct that has around the same 6.2mm spread will have light return and performance that will blow the doors off the steep-deep 1ct with a 6.2mm spread, for around the same price.

Along with Brian Gavin, also see what in-stock diamonds that Whiteflash and Victor Canera have. Both WF and VC have slightly better upgrade programs.

If you'd prefer to take on a more in-depth hunt, then most diamonds that have earned the AGS Triple Zero (ideal cut grade) rating are a safe choice, since AGS assesses light performance using all three dimensions, whereas GIA only uses two dimensions. The proportions guide posted earlier create a baseline for narrowing the list of candidates, but still apply due diligence to assess diamonds on an individual basis for light return, light leakage, and symmetry.

Here's a link to the PriceScope diamond search engine (I've put in some parameters to help make things easier) to help get you started:

Diamond Search Results | Real-time Information on 1,000,000+ Diamonds | PriceScope

PriceScope's Diamond Search is the best place to find the best diamond prices. Search and compare over a million natural, lab and fancy color diamonds.

www.pricescope.com

 

[amnamn180]

Thank you - I really appreciate all of the advice. I don't know why I have a mental block of saying "I must propose with a 1ct diamond" - when as you say, some 0.80+ diamonds that are well cut have a similar size to a poorly cut 1ct diamond.

I might also look at what certified diamonds the jeweler I am using to custom make the ring has. I assume the certificates will cover all of the properties you have mentioned?

Even something like this? https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ferral&utm_campaign=earthdiamonds-ps&a_aid=ps

My concern is with having to return the diamond.... if she decides she wanted a different shape/style etc.

 

[DejaWiz]

Thank you - I really appreciate all of the advice. I don't know why I have a mental block of saying "I must propose with a 1ct diamond" - when as you say, some 0.80+ diamonds that are well cut have a similar size to a poorly cut 1ct diamond.

I might also look at what certified diamonds the jeweler I am using to custom make the ring has. I assume the certificates will cover all of the properties you have mentioned?

Even something like this? https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ferral&utm_campaign=earthdiamonds-ps&a_aid=ps

My concern is with having to return the diamond.... if she decides she wanted a different shape/style etc.

Beautiful choice!
Contact JA and put this diamond on hold so someone else doesn't buy it before you have a chance to think things over.

Here's the PS assessment link for this diamond:

Round 0.8800 carat diamond listed by James Allen

www.pricescope.com

 

[crbl999]

Thank you - I really appreciate all of the advice. I don't know why I have a mental block of saying "I must propose with a 1ct diamond" - when as you say, some 0.80+ diamonds that are well cut have a similar size to a poorly cut 1ct diamond.

I might also look at what certified diamonds the jeweler I am using to custom make the ring has. I assume the certificates will cover all of the properties you have mentioned?

Even something like this? https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ferral&utm_campaign=earthdiamonds-ps&a_aid=ps

My concern is with having to return the diamond.... if she decides she wanted a different shape/style etc.

Shift your mindset to help with the mental block. Diamonds that are 1 ct in your budget have the same measurements as a well cut .8X stone. You're doing a good job of researching to make sure you get a well cut stone that maximizes size. Your future wife deserves a sparkle bomb on her finger that will bring her joy looking at it.

Yes, if the diamonds are GIA, AGS, IGI the certs will have the proportions listed on them.

The G VS1 looks excellent! I would place that on hold.

IMO, one of the most important components of a relationship is open, honest, effective communication. Ask your future wife what she likes and doesn't like. Round vs princess cut; simple solitaire vs solitaire with pave/side stones. This is the easiest way to answer your concern.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

I don't know why I have a mental block of saying "I must propose with a 1ct diamond" - when as you say, some 0.80+ diamonds that are well cut have a similar size to a poorly cut 1ct diamond.

This is probably a key reason why at the 1ct mark there is a premium and many diamond cutters manipulate the cutting process to achieve the 1ct mark even if it is detrimental to the beauty of the stone to achieve a higher selling price.

Here is a PS link talking about carat weight, well-cut 0.8 ct vs poorly cut 1ct and the price jump at carat weight marks:

Diamond Carat Weight: Everything You Need To Know

What is a Diamond Carat and how is it measured? Check our diamond carat size chart today to compare diamond carat sizes.

www.pricescope.com

She is better off with a well-cut sparkly 0.8ish ct than a dull 1ct, especially since it has the same face up spread!

FYI - I actually did a search for you based on your budget and around 1ct with PS recommended proportions and 'excellent' HCA score and did not actually find anything better than the BGD stones I posted earlier. If you can find something from WF or VC, that would be good because of the more generous upgrade policy. However, I would recommend the stones from BGD, WF or VC over a stone from JA if the price similar because of the higher precision cut of the stones of these providers and the better upgrade policy. WF is super generous, new option only needs to be $1 more, BDG you need to upgrade two aspects out of size, color or clarity but with JA, you need to spend double! There is nothing wrong with JA (I bought from them many times) but I would always choose a super ideal vendor when the pricing is similar, because I want the best cut and the better upgrade policy.

 

[amnamn180]

All, thank you for your input. I really do appreciate it.

I have now narrowed it down and have decided to go for the best quality 0.80-0.89 diamond that I can. I would like it a H or I colour and VS2 or above.

I have been looking at White Flash, but what is VC that you refer to? I like the 'trade in' options. Essentially, even if my partner does not like the diamond (and I am outside of the returns period) I can essentially return it and swap it for someone of equal or more value (based on my purchase price)? That really does seem like it is risk free.

I am due to look at a couple more cert diamonds from two local jewelers and I will then compare that to equivalent prices and availability as you have online.

The stone will then be taken to the jeweler that I mentioned in my first post who is going to make some a custom engagement ring, very exciting.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[MissGotRocks]

There are too many certed diamonds to go with one that isn’t. Takes the guesswork out of whether the vendor is being honest or not. As others have said, if it would have come out with a decent cut grade, he would have sent it in. VC is Victor Canera. He sells ideal cut diamonds too. I don’t know what his trade in policy is but I am sure he would be happy to explain it to you. I have used the Whiteflash trade in policy a few times; only have to spend one dollar more. As you journey through life, you might find yourself wanting a larger diamond, a higher color or whatever and funds might be more readily available to you later than they are now. Always nice to have that option as well as starting with a stellar cut diamond! You can always give them a call - they are wonderful folks and will be happy to answer any questions or provide pictures of anything you might consider.

 

[DejaWiz]

Both Whiteflash and Victor Canera have the best upgrade programs: equal or greater value, no minimum requirements.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Here is a 0.83ct G VS2 from WF (bank wire price $4,596):

Diamond | 0.830 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4369555

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.830 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4369555

www.whiteflash.com

Register with WF first before purchase so you can get the $100 off new customer discount.