Firecoat on Blue Sapphire

[IndyGemLover]

Hello,

I just received my ring back from the jeweler. It is a 14kt yellow gold bezel set sapphire surrounded by channel set diamonds. I had to take it in to have the diamond channel and sapphire bezel rebuilt as it had worn down from wear causing loose stones.

It seems as though the firecoat was left on the top of the stone. Is there any way to remove it other than having the stone repolished? I have tried researching it online and haven''t been able to come up with much.

The ring turned out beautifully except for having the funky layer of firecoat left on the sapphire. I am concerned about repolishing causing weight loss and am also not overly keen on the thought of the stone having to be pulled and then reset after having spent so much to have the ring repaired.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you very much for any help you might be able to offer me!!

 

[MsMelbourne]

I cant help you with that, maybe if you post some pics of the ring, we would be able to give some more advice

 

[chrono]

Bring it back to your jeweller have have him/her remove it. You might be able to remove it by scratching the film with a steel probe but it doesn't always work. See here for more information.
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/ajm-corundum.htm

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hello,

I took the ring back to the jeweler. He wasn''t able to see it for whatever reason. The things is, prior to taking it in for repair I took numerous photos of it because I emailed a few people for advice. The other thing is the fact I am a G. G. and know this stone very well since I have worn it every day for nearly twelve years and have studied the sapphire on numerous times. The jeweler is going to soak it "pickle it" for a few days and see if that will remove it. If not he mentioned pulling the stone and having it polished. I am not pleased. While the repair was wonderfully done so far as the gold work goes, the fact that there is now some sort of film, whether it be firecoat or something else, that will not wash off of the stone. It is only on the crown of the stone and not on the pavillion. They used a laser torch to do the repairs and thus the jewelers claims it wasn''t hot enough to cause the firecoat to stick and yet it appears it has.

I will try to attach a picture that was taken of the ring prior to the repair.

 

[beaujolais]

Can someone explain firecoat? I did a search here and found nothing. Thanks.

Best wishes with that Indy, it''s beautiful.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hi,

Thanks for the responses. Firecoat, as I understand it, is a coating bench jewelers apply to a gemstone prior to any sort of repair work that requires heat to protect the gemstone. I found very little online about it as well and think there must be other names for it that I don''t know.

I don''t know whether it is firecoat or some sort of other coating but there is a definate film on my stone that wasn''t there prior to it being repaired.

Thanks!

 

[chrono]

Firecoat is a special chemical containint Borax to protect the gemstone during benchwork that requires heating. Overheating the borax causes it to breakdown and damage the gemstone as well leaving a permanent layer of film on the gemstone.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hi, Chrono,

My sapphire looks like it has some sort of oily, goopy film on the surface. It is a thick enough coating that the facet junctions do not show very well and it even looks like it is pooled up in a few spots. It almost looks melted but only the crown, the pavillion looks fine. The table sort of looks wavy.

The jeweler claims he cannot see it even with the microscope, but I can see it even without magnification in reflected light. It was as if I had to convince him there was a problem with the stone.

I have numerous photographs taken of the ring just prior to repair that clearly show sharp facet junctions and no coating on the stone. (I took the photos so I could email a friend for advice prior to repair.)

The jeweler is soaking it in the "pickle" solution" for a few days to see if that removes it. One thing he mentioned was in their rush to finish it they didn''t soak it before I picked it up. They had it for 16 days.

I am extremely pleased with the actual repair and so even more disappointed that there is some sort of issue with my sapphire.

The channel surrounding the diamonds had to rebuilt along with the bezel that holds the sapphire, the diamond channel had worn down and several of the stones were loose. They rebuilt both and attached it using a laser torch. I went in to see it prior to the final polish to see if I liked the added height and thickness of the channel and bezel. I did and when I picked it up it looked great. I didn''t notice at the time the film on the sapphire, I was merely looking at the mounting. In the car on the way home I looked at it in the sun and noticed a flim on the surface. I tried cleaning it several times and the film remained. I looked at it under both 10X and 30X and realised it was something on the surface. I took it back to him the next day and felt as though he didn''t believe me because he claimed he couldn''t see it which really frustrated me because it is so obvious, especially in reflected light!

I only figured out it might be firecoat because of researching it on the internet.

The jeweler said he doesn''t understand how this could happen because they used a laser torch with very little heat. I am so upset about the whole situation and do not know what to do about it. This is a remarkable sapphire, very clean and a very nice medium color. I''ve worn this ring for twelve years, it was a very special gift. It makes me feel sick.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Here is a pic I took of my ring prior to having it repaired.

You can see how clean the stone is and how sharp the facet junctions are, there is no coating of any sort.

You can see how worn the gold around the diamond channel is in this photo and thus the need for repair.

The sapphire is approximately 8X6 and weighs in at nearly 2 carats. Surrounding it are 16 0.02 carat stones that total 0.32 points.

The ring is solid and made of 14 karat gold.

This photo was taken using my digital camera and microscope.

 

[chrono]

Interesting. If the bench person used a laser torch, then I agree that the heat level shouldn''t be that bad. I''m hoping the "pickle" solution will remove the coating.

 

[LostSapphire]

IGL:

Please keep us updated: I hope everything works out fine in the "pickle juice"....at the same time, it''s something I''ve never heard of and I am fascinated as to what this could be....

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hello,

I just got home from the jeweler. He agrees now that there is indeed firecoat on the stone''s surface and is sending it out to NY to be repolished.

He pulled the sapphire while I was there and we got all the measurements and weight. The stone actually measures 7.19 X 5.24 X 3.77 and weighs in at around 1.40 or so carats.

There is some damage around the girdle on one side that he said is natural to the stone and wasn''t caused by them. Soaking the ring in the "pickle" solution really didn''t do much to remove the film from the stone''s surface, if at all. In fact, the facet junctions almost look melted which he thinks is the firecoating on them.

I am going to go in and see the stone after it has been repolished and prior to them resetting it.

I appreciate all the help and responses.

 

[chrono]

Indy,
I''m sorry that it was indeed firecoat damage to your sapphire but glad the the jeweler is taking steps to resolve this.

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 4/22/2008 5:16:35 PM
Author: IndyGemLover
Hello,


I just got home from the jeweler. He agrees now that there is indeed firecoat on the stone''s surface and is sending it out to NY to be repolished.


He pulled the sapphire while I was there and we got all the measurements and weight. The stone actually measures 7.19 X 5.24 X 3.77 and weighs in at around 1.40 or so carats.


There is some damage around the girdle on one side that he said is natural to the stone and wasn''t caused by them. Soaking the ring in the ''pickle'' solution really didn''t do much to remove the film from the stone''s surface, if at all. In fact, the facet junctions almost look melted which he thinks is the firecoating on them.


I am going to go in and see the stone after it has been repolished and prior to them resetting it.


I appreciate all the help and responses.

Oh my goodness.

I hope the repolishing does the trick. Did he say if by repolishing you would lose size in the stone?

 

[chrono]

I would expect minimal loss in carat weight and possibly even no visual change in size (too small/little to detect with the naked eye).

 

[Catmom]

Oh, I really hope they are able to fix your beautiful stone!

 

[LostSapphire]

So, IndyGemLover, how did it all turn out?

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hi,

I just went to the jeweler yesterday to see the stone after it was polished. I am happy with the polishing, the stone looks much better without the firecoat on it. However; because there was damage to the one side of the girdle the stone had to be recut which resulted in a smaller stone diameter. The stone is now about 6.9 X 5.1 or so and I lost about 10 points in weight. While the face up appearance isn''t drastically smaller, they did not refacet the crown and thus the crown facets are now cut off and do not come to a point as they should. I am not too thrilled with that at all.

The jeweler offered to replace the stone with a new one that measures the same as mine originally did but weighs less. (Mine originally measured 7.19 X 5.24 X 3.77 and weighed around 1.40) My stone is very deep and thus weighs more than the measurements would indicate. A 7 X 5 usually weighs in at One Carat. I was told I could have the new stone if I gave him mine or I could have both if I paid for the new one. Because I didn''t have the extra money to buy the new stone I chose to have the original set back into my ring. For sentimental reasons I want my stone although it would have been nice to have the new one in my ring since my stone isn''t the same now because of being damaged and repaired.

What bothers me is that I took my ring in to be repaired and my sapphire was a certain size and didn''t have any problems. They damaged it because of the firecoat so my stone had to be polished and then because of damage to the girdle, (which may or may not have been there when I took it in for repair) I now have a smaller stone and the crown is poorly faceted. The pavillion was not polished or recut as it wasn''t needed.

Perhaps one day in the future I can have the stone replaced with a new one and keep my original stone as it means a lot to me and I want to keep it and put it away. I am just really disappointed with the whole situation. I specifically asked prior to leaving it for repair if heat would be dangerous for the stone since it is bezel set and was told no and I ended up going through this whole ordeal with the firecoating and having my stone unmounted and sent out of state to be repolished and as it turns out to be recut into a smaller stone.

I am supposed to pick it up this week and am eager to get it back. The jeweler has had it for well over a month now. Had I known that all of this would happen because of having the mounting repaired I very well may have spent the extra money to have a new mounting made instead of repairing the original. I am very sentimental and so wanted the original mounting and stones.

We''ll see how it turns out. The stone being a smaller diameter doesn''t fit into the bezel like it did before so they said they''d have to rebuild it so my now smaller stone fits.

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 5/8/2008 5:40:17 PM
Author: IndyGemLover
Hi,


I just went to the jeweler yesterday to see the stone after it was polished. I am happy with the polishing, the stone looks much better without the firecoat on it. However; because there was damage to the one side of the girdle the stone had to be recut which resulted in a smaller stone diameter. The stone is now about 6.9 X 5.1 or so and I lost about 10 points in weight. While the face up appearance isn't drastically smaller, they did not refacet the crown and thus the crown facets are now cut off and do not come to a point as they should. I am not too thrilled with that at all.


The jeweler offered to replace the stone with a new one that measures the same as mine originally did but weighs less. (Mine originally measured 7.19 X 5.24 X 3.77 and weighed around 1.40) My stone is very deep and thus weighs more than the measurements would indicate. A 7 X 5 usually weighs in at One Carat. I was told I could have the new stone if I gave him mine or I could have both if I paid for the new one. Because I didn't have the extra money to buy the new stone I chose to have the original set back into my ring. For sentimental reasons I want my stone although it would have been nice to have the new one in my ring since my stone isn't the same now because of being damaged and repaired.


What bothers me is that I took my ring in to be repaired and my sapphire was a certain size and didn't have any problems. They damaged it because of the firecoat so my stone had to be polished and then because of damage to the girdle, (which may or may not have been there when I took it in for repair) I now have a smaller stone and the crown is poorly faceted. The pavillion was not polished or recut as it wasn't needed.


Perhaps one day in the future I can have the stone replaced with a new one and keep my original stone as it means a lot to me and I want to keep it and put it away. I am just really disappointed with the whole situation. I specifically asked prior to leaving it for repair if heat would be dangerous for the stone since it is bezel set and was told no and I ended up going through this whole ordeal with the firecoating and having my stone unmounted and sent out of state to be repolished and as it turns out to be recut into a smaller stone.


I am supposed to pick it up this week and am eager to get it back. The jeweler has had it for well over a month now. Had I known that all of this would happen because of having the mounting repaired I very well may have spent the extra money to have a new mounting made instead of repairing the original. I am very sentimental and so wanted the original mounting and stones.


We'll see how it turns out. The stone being a smaller diameter doesn't fit into the bezel like it did before so they said they'd have to rebuild it so my now smaller stone fits.

IndyGemLover:

Thank you for the update. I am sorry that in spite of their efforts you are now left with an imperfect solution to the problem.

Perhaps some day you can come up with some way to use both the stone and the mounting: maybe a new stone in the ring and use the original stone in another setting, a pendant perhaps.

I really empathize with your sense that your ring is now not as "complete" as it once was, and that what you really would prefer would be to have things the way they were at the start. Maybe with time you can come to terms with the situation and redo the ring (along with some kind of commemoration of the new one to give it some symbolism too).....I have been thinking about that for my own (lost) ring. The new one is getting started and in spite of me being excited about it, there isn't the emotion attached to it like my original ring.


Can you tell me something, so I can avoid this situation in the future? Why did they have to apply firecoat to it in the first place? Is it ONLY because the stone was set into a bezel and they couldn't remove it, or was it for some other reason? It would be good to understand the reasoning behind it...if you can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you so much for the update. I hope you get it back this week and you start to feel good about it sometime soon.

 

[anemone]

+1

I botched the original sizing of my sapphire ring by 2 full sizes, had it resized and there was no firecoat involved AFAIK, much less to the point where it ruins the stone. This is distressing news.

 

[beaujolais]

I''m thinking that they should get you a new one, let you keep the old one and fix that setting, and *help* ($, that is) you with a setting for the new one, along with profuse apologies. I don''t know what would be the norm in the trade but at first glance, their business sense is underwhelming to me.

Does anyone know what common practice in the trade might be when mistakes like this happen?

It perplexes me a bit. Big hugs to you and your sapphire.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies and concern, I appreciate it a lot.

My understanding is that firecoat is used to protect certain gemstones when a jeweler must use heat near the stone. Normally there is no problem but if the firecoat gets too hot it can burn onto the surface (That is what happened to my sapphire) and then it must be repolished to remove the firecoating. This, of course, means the gemstone must be removed from the mounting and sent out to be repolished. I am told this doesn''t happen very often at all.

My ring has been sized twice in the twelve years I''ve owned it. I don''t know if they had to use firecoat on it but if they did it didn''t pose a problem.

Because my stone is bezel set the theory is that when the heat was applied to solder and repair the mounting around the sapphire and diamonds it heated up the stone and thus heated up the firecoating as well causing it to adhere to the surface of the stone.

As I said, I was told this doesn''t happen very often at all. In fact, when this first happened I could find very little online about it which is why I first posted here.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Hi, Sonomacounty,

I am inclined to agree with you for a few reasons.

My ring needed the channel around the diamonds and the bezel around the sapphire built back up because they had become worn from wearing the ring everyday for twelve years. My ring is 14kt yellow gold and the gold around the diamond channel had worn down so much that several of the stones were very loose. I took it in to be repaired, it wasn''t cheap.

A two week repair has ended up taking over a month now because of the complications.

I took my ring in with a sapphire that was not damaged and because of the firecoating it had to repolished and in order to repolish it the stone had to be recut because there was some minor damage on one part of the girdle. I have no way of knowing if the damage to the girdle was always there or if it is because of the stone being pulled from the setting.

Because the stone had to repolished and recut I lost gem weight and the outline of the stone is smaller. The jeweler has mentioned that it wasn''t cheap for him to have my sapphire repolished but it was their fault it needed to be done, not mine.

Since the stone is smaller now the bezel has to be rebuilt to accomodate it.

The repolishing of the stone looks really good but it should never have needed it.

So, the value of the stone has changed because the stone now weighs less and the crown facets aren''t properly shaped because of the girdle being recut.

I just think it would have been a nice gesture to offer to replace the stone and let me keep the original since there is a sentimental attachment to it. It isn''t as though I was going to sell my stone and make a profit off of it.

I was given the choice of having the new stone and the jeweler keeping my stone or buying the new stone at wholesale and keeping my stone. But after the cost of the repair do not currently have the extra money to buy the new stone and so told them to put my stone back into the mounting. I really had no other choice if I wanted to retain my original stone.

The jeweler has apologized and truly seems sorry but at the same time my stone isn''t the same any more. I am really disappointed with the whole mess. The only reason I took my ring in to be repaired was so I wouldn''t lose any of the stones and then all this happens.

By the way, the repair they did on the mounting was first rate and looks great, I was very impressed. You can imagine how I felt when I realised their was a problem with the sapphire after I first got it back.

 

[beaujolais]

Well, I'm glad your mounting repair came out well.

I'm wondering if you should repost your issue with a heading of something like "Jewelers, please reply. Jeweler damaged my stone." Maybe some of the professionals here can tell you what they think normal protocol would be.

(Would reposting this question with a heading similar to that be o.k., ps-ers?)

I'm not familiar with the trade much but something still leaves me flat on their handling of this.

 

[IndyGemLover]

I picked up my ring today, finally after it being at the jeweler for over a month.

While the gold work repair came out nicely, I am still not too thrilled with the fact the stone was recut.

The thing that upsets me most is the fact that the facets are now oddly shaped and the table larger.

I couldn''t seem to get the jeweler to understand that because of the firecoat damaging my stone it had to be repolished and recut therefore my stone is not the same now.

I am going to keep the sapphire in the ring for the time being but still think I will replace it with another in the future.

 

[IndyGemLover]

This is a pic of my ring BEFORE anything was done to it. Notice the shape of the facet by the red arrow.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Here is a pic of my sapphire AFTER the stone was repolished and recut because of the firecoating. Notice the shape of the facet by the red arrow. Quite different now.

 

[IndyGemLover]

Here is a close up pic of my sapphire AFTER it was repolished and recut. You can see the facets are shaped differently and are nothing like they were prior to being damaged by the jeweler.