Fire & Red Colors & Blue

[malibu]

I am obsessing here about my diamonds. I was in Tiffanys yesterday and besides my ideal cut colorless ring looking like s*** and looking beinge - I saw fire in their stones that I have never seen in mind unless near a fireplace or candles, all colors ---reds, blues.

I rarely see fire in my stone. Are there different color fires?

TIA

 

[belle]

it is the cut that determines how a diamond handles light. with different cuts and cut quality, you will have different looks and performance.

having a very clean diamond is also important! dirty diamonds don''t look good!

 

[oldminer]

Funny, but Tiffany & Co goes out of their way to purchase and cut diamonds which display little fire. It is part of their "brand's" appearance, and they are very consistent in its application. Of course, some lighting brings out the inherent dispersion present in all diamonds, but if Tiffany diamonds look fiery, others will be even more so. Fire is an attribute of personal choice, but beauty in a diamond can be described and judged without reference to fire. Fire varies by environment rather than being somewhat a fixed situation.

 

[WinkHPD]

Agreed Dave, I wonder if our supplicant''s diamond was not in need of a little cleaning?

Wink

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/21/2006 1:37:46 PM
Author: oldminer
Funny, but Tiffany & Co out ogoes f their way to purchase and cut diamonds which disply little fire. It is part of ther ''brand''s'' appearance and they are very consistent in its application. Of course, some lighting brings out the inherent dispersion present in all diamonds, but if Tiffany diamonds look firey, others will be even more so. Fire is an attribute of personal choice, but beauty in a diamond can be described and judged without reference to fire. Fire varies by environment rather than being somewhat a fixed situation.

I dont agree... that a Co. like Tiffany would go OUT of their way to.......

Sorry!!! just doesnt make sense.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 5/21/2006 2:25:51 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/21/2006 1:37:46 PM
Author: oldminer
Funny, but Tiffany & Co out ogoes f their way to purchase and cut diamonds which disply little fire. It is part of ther ''brand''s'' appearance and they are very consistent in its application. Of course, some lighting brings out the inherent dispersion present in all diamonds, but if Tiffany diamonds look firey, others will be even more so. Fire is an attribute of personal choice, but beauty in a diamond can be described and judged without reference to fire. Fire varies by environment rather than being somewhat a fixed situation.

I dont agree... that a Co. like Tiffany would go OUT of their way to.......

Sorry!!! just doesnt make sense.

Tell that to my diamond. It has tons of fire!!!

 

[oldminer]

I can''t prove to you something that I happen to know, but I would not go out of my way to fabricate something in order to mislead anyone. Lighting type is the principal reason for display of fire. Fire is a part of a nicely cut diamond, but can be controlled, to an extent by cutting style. A clean diamond, well cut, and in lighting that encourages fire will just, simply, have lots of fire.

I''ll admit that I thought it strange when I first heard of the Tiffany decision about their cut. One must familiarize themselves with what creates a brand and how to distinguish the look of your brand from other quite similar items that are not part of your brand''s image. This is not a beauty issue, but a marketing decsion which makes sense in that context.

 

[Mara]

it is just amazing how crappy an ideal cut stone can look when dirty!! and diamonds totally attract and gather dirt and dust....give your ring a good cleaning and then go back...hee hee.

 

[diagem]

David,

Believe me i know exactly what you are talking about...
But that i just one shape they are marketing....

But it is still far from your earlier comment "goes out of their way to purchase and cut diamonds which display little fire", it sounded like Tiffany doesnt put an emphasis on Beautifully made/cut diamonds.

When Tiffany cuts or purchases e/c diamonds they also chose diamonds that display "little" fire, in fact most fancy shaped diamonds display less fire than standard ideal rounds...

Tiffany has one of the strictier QC I personaly encountered.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

steeper crown and smaller tables (with the optimum pavilion depth for the given crown angle) gets you more fire.
Also leaky non optimum cuts set so light can get in the pavilion from the sides can display good fire inside the table region.

But I suspect you stone was not clean.

Also the better your stones light return - the less fire you might see in some types of lighting.

Fire is spectral color - and it is interesting that you correctly noted that you only usually see light from either end of the spectrum - red and mainly blue. Green is usually absent. GIA used a device they are seeking to patent to train their fire observer team - it creates green fire - it is another of the many reasons that I am not impressed with their new grading system.

 

[Capitol Bill]

Were you comparing your stone to the ones inside the case or did you look at some Tiffany rings side-by-side with yours? Along with the possibility that your stone wasn''t clean, the difference could have also been caused by the extra lighting inside the Tiffany cases. Tiffany, like other retailers with lots of money to invest in the very best lighting systems, has special lighting inside their cases in addition to the usual ceiling-mounted lights. Just a guess...

Bill Scherlag

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/21/2006 2:28:12 PM
Author: kaleigh

Date: 5/21/2006 2:25:51 PM

Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/21/2006 1:37:46 PM

Author: oldminer

Funny, but Tiffany & Co out ogoes f their way to purchase and cut diamonds which disply little fire. It is part of ther 'brand's' appearance and they are very consistent in its application. Of course, some lighting brings out the inherent dispersion present in all diamonds, but if Tiffany diamonds look firey, others will be even more so. Fire is an attribute of personal choice, but beauty in a diamond can be described and judged without reference to fire. Fire varies by environment rather than being somewhat a fixed situation.

I dont agree... that a Co. like Tiffany would go OUT of their way to.......


Sorry!!! just doesnt make sense.

Tell that to my diamond. It has tons of fire!!!

yep it has tons of fire but it is also likely tuned more towards white light return than fire
most RB diamonds are, tiffany or not 8* and diamonds cut like them and fics are the exception.
8* are cut for fire over white light return.
There are very few diamonds cut like them.

Even the WF ACA new line is well balanced fire/white but they do tend to lean just slightly towards the fire side.

that does not mean that almost every other diamond is not fiery or that they dont have fire they do in the proper lighting they just dont try and return fire all the time

bottom line that Tif sells diamonds that are tuned more towards white light than fire just like almost everyone else. That doesn't make fire unimportant because it is very important to the personality of the diamond! The fact Tif does it dont prove that fire isnt important in a RB diamond!


Dave come up with a better way than you have been of explaining what your talking about that isn't freaking people out please.
Im tired of having to explain it.
Thank you :}

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/21/2006 11:20:12 PM
Author: strmrdr


Dave come up with a better way than you have been of explaining what your talking about that isn't freaking people out please.
Im tired of having to explain it.
Thank you :}

There's really no call to be so rude.

1) No one is "freaking out", just expressing their thoughts.

2) You're tired of having to explain it? Then don't......it's not your job or your place to "explain" Dave's posts. If you choose to do so, fine, but then don't bitch about the burden of doing so.

I'm sure most adults here are capable of asking Dave to further explain his comments if necessary.

Dave is an appraiser with more than 20 (maybe 25?) years in the business. He has more experience than you, me and most of Pricescope combined. He doesn't warrant the disrespect of having you tell him how he should post.

Frankly, we're lucky he posts AT ALL....and he does so at his leisure and to our benefit. A little courtesy for that fact is warranted.

 

[Mara]

What Dave said made perfect sense, sure it was worded a bit technical, but I don't see anyone getting 'freaked out'....

ETA: Totally agree with Alj re the tone of the post. We are very lucky to have Dave, with his years of experience with diamonds, here on PS.

 

[Kaleigh]

We are extremely lucky to have Dave here on PS. He has answered countless questions and has been an invaluable member of this community. I respect him and his many years of experience in the business. I wasn't loving what he said about Tiff's but probably cause my stone came from Tiff's. I didn't see anyone freaking out?? We are all adults and can hopefully agree to disagree sometimes?? My stone has fire, maybe I got one of the good ones, hehe!!!

As in lighten up guys!!!

 

[Mara]

We talk all the time on here about how some stones are cut for white brilliance, some more for fire, some for better light return, some for more contrast. It's a balance. Give a little to get something else. I also didn't think that the comment was disparaging at all to Tiffany stones...or that is not how I took it anyway!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Kaleigh said: "Tell that to my diamond. It has tons of fire!!!" She's absolutely right!

Several of my diamond rings, necklaces and earrings (including emerald cut, round brilliant, radiant, pear & marquise stones) came from Tiffany and they all seem very firey to me! I also have a pink sapphire from them that people often think is a diamond because of all the fire in it.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/22/2006 12:11:45 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 5/21/2006 11:20:12 PM

Author: strmrdr



Dave come up with a better way than you have been of explaining what your talking about that isn''t freaking people out please.

Im tired of having to explain it.

Thank you :}

There''s really no call to be so rude.


1) No one is ''freaking out'', just expressing their thoughts.



2) You''re tired of having to explain it? Then don''t......it''s not your job or your place to ''explain'' Dave''s posts. If you choose to do so, fine, but then don''t bitch about the burden of doing so.


I''m sure most adults here are capable of asking Dave to further explain his comments if necessary.


Dave is an appraiser with more than 20 (maybe 25?) years in the business. He has more experience than you, me and most of Pricescope combined. He doesn''t warrant the disrespect of having you tell him how he should post.


Frankly, we''re lucky he posts AT ALL....and he does so at his leisure and to our benefit. A little courtesy for that fact is warranted.

It was not my intent to be rude.
My intent was to make a polite request to think about rewording it.
If I had wanted to be rude I would have been much more so.
But I could have worded it better I spose.

Dave, if you consider my request rude Im sorry about the wording of it but I do hope you will please consider how you approach this issue in the future.
Thanks!

PS. alj you have a lot of room to talk about anyone being rude but in this one case ya might have a point.

 

[oldminer]

aljdewey:

Thanks. I would not have been so direct in a response. It is appreciated.
Of course, I'm not here to make anyone annoyed, but occasionally I say something that tweaks someone's buttons a bit. It isn't intentional, but adults can get over it pretty easily when it is truly uinintended.

I entered the appraisal mode with my father as my primary supervisor in 1972, 34 years. Before that, from December 1967, I was formally trained by an old European craftsman in making, repairing and designing jewelry. There were many years of professional training since 1972 and experience since that entry point and it never ceases. Nearly every day I learn more or do something in a way I have never done previously. Things are in constant change. I love participation on Pricescope and don't miss an opportunity to share when it seems right to do so. I ward off the evil spirits with a garlic clove or two and don't get myself upset when someone gets a little mean with me. I can take the abuse.

A cutter can make a diamond more or less fiery by designing it in certain ways. A firm can choose to buy less fiery diamonds if it chooses to promote a more icy-white look. Then, one must look at the specific store lighting to further understand how icy or fiery they want those diamonds to look when they are on display, since the lighting choice will greatly add or decrease apparent dispersion.

I hope this explains the posts I have made on this subject and that no one needs to do my explaining for me. Second hand explanations are usually less correct than explanations received first hand anyway. I don't want to start a war over this, so please don't read anything offensive into this posting.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Does anyone know if Tiffany''s is still purchasing the bulk of their round stones from Lazare Kaplan, or have they diversified in their vendor selection?

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/22/2006 9:22:21 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Does anyone know if Tiffany''s is still purchasing the bulk of their round stones from Lazare Kaplan, or have they diversified in their vendor selection?

Richard,

They use numerous vendors for their rounds and fancies..., and they ventured with "Rand" in South Africa in the production of rounds and fancies...

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Thanks DiaGem!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

as I remeber tifany now has a jewelry factory in Mumbai and a diamond cutting factory in Vietnam.
They did a deal with ABER - a Canadian diammond miner they had owners ship in - to get rough - which they choose what they want and on sell the rejections.

I think the main cause of this thread would be the lighting inside the show cases - it proveds low angle light that can be great for showing fire.
Someone else pointed it out in the debate above - Malibo could that be the answer?