Finding sapphires (need help)

[Stephen147]

Hello, this is my first post and it defiantly looks like a helpful place.

I have searched every website I have found to death for months now, I have googled google to death, I have watched eBay like a hawk, and I STILL have yet to find what I am looking for. I have probably looked through 250,000 sapphires. This is defiantly a desperate measure.

What I am looking for is a matched pair of blue sapphires, pear shape, facet cut, 5x4mm (or close to, not over 6x5mm), no diffusion or lab created.It is possible that heart shape will work, pear is preferred. The main problem other than finding a pair, is finding the color. I defiantly love Ceylon blue or cornflower blue. I believe the GIA rating I am looking for is B 5/5 or near there. I want them to be blue enough so to speak, that if it where, say, a foot away from me, I could see that is was blue. I have 8 sapphires for this ring, and none of them will work, either too light, too dark, or have hints of green. Slight hints of violet are ok usually. The few pairs I have come across just simply don''t have the vividness I need, they are too "grayish". Attached is about what I am looking for in color.

To make it even harder to find, I have a limited budget. Its a little hard to explain why you have no money without telling her what you spent it on And if that was not fun enough, I have only about a month and a half to finish making this ring (thats not really a problem, just leaves me a month though to find these stones). The most important factor in this is the color and its vividness, that is what she will notice the most. Obviously I''d like to get the best stones that I can, but if all possible I''d like it to be under $250 (or less, going to need all the money I got ). I know that seems to be asking a lot for not a lot of money, but when it absolutely has to work out, it will.

I am really getting low on options, a sapphire is just a sapphire till its on a ring proclaiming your love. I cannot stress enough how much ANY help on this is appreciated. I have had people say they have some to those specifications but will not show me any pictures at all, which makes me very nervous. I have 8 that won''t work, I don''t want 10. So if anyone knows someone who knows someone who might be able to help me, I simply could not be more grateful.

Thanks for the help!!!
-Stephen

 

[Stephen147]

Here is a second photo that shows more about what I mean when I say I want it to always look blue (and not black or clear).

Thanks!!!
-Stephen

 

[Layne]

You probably have already done this...
Contact the people you have bough from/webistes you have been searching and tell them your exact specifications and budget. Put them on the look out for you! I''m sure they see many more stones than they buy or advertise to the public.

 

[bar01]

Well,

I will give you my two cents.

I also spent many months looking for a fine color sapphire, one that would make a statement on my gal''s hand. It wasn''t easy. Fine color (like GIA B 5/5) sapphires are rare. I know this first hand. In my case - I also wanted round cut and untreated (not even low heat) so it made it even more rare. However, I was somewhat open on the budget (except things like certified Kashmir sapphires!)

I think you have given yourself some tough restrictions. Here is how I see it in order of increasing difficulty

1) You want a matched pair of specific shape and size
2) No diffusion (but you will except heat?) - who will certify this?
3) You want very Fine Color, tone, and saturation.
4) Your budget ($250)


The last item (budget) would not support the first three.

 

[Diamondsbybree]

http://www.multicolour.com/gallery/ they had a couple nice pears.........

 

[Diamondsbybree]

more.....http://www.ajsgems.com/SAP/SAP-under-1.htm

 

[Sagebrush]

Stephen,

The answer to your dilema is simple. Your eye is too good and your budget is too small. A reasonably well cut 6x4 pear of fine color should weigh at 0.75-0.85. This includes a 12% bulge factor, a 7x5 pear will weigh at least 1.15 and maybe a bit more so there are your perameters.

I confess that I have not reduced the GIA numbers to memory but your description/image is of an exceptional blue sapphire, vivid with no green or gray and you are asking to buy a perfectly matched pair for less than I would pay per carat for a single stone to a dealer in Bangkok. Good luck!

 

[Stephen147]

Thanks for the help. Here is a pair of trillian that are within my budget, only problem is that they are the wrong cut, these simply would not flow as good in the ring. I guess it is the saturation that I am really after, I like how you can tell the whole gem is blue and not just when there is intense light going through. I just don''t want the color under a 4 (lighter medium blue). I CAN spend as much as $500, but that is all the spare money I do have. The pervious two gems posted where found on ebay, and sold for under $100. I would of bought at least one, but I have never seen another one close to is.

Since I have yet to come across any, does anyone have an ball park numbers of what I should be exepcting to spend for the pair earlier discribed? I am starting to feel like a man trying to buy a new Corvette for under $10,000. Possible, really not likely.

As far as diffusion goes, my understanding is that is a chemical treatment done during the heating process that effects it on just a very thin layer on the outside. Will this wear off in a life time? Or is it just something I have built up against in my head?

Thanks for the help and the eyes

 

[Sagebrush]

The stones you show look dull and dead from the image though it is an image and not to be trusted. Looks like too much feathering inside the stone that has to affect the light return. Assume you are buying with an absolute moneyback guarantee.

I''ve said this before and been roundly chastised for it, but I''ll keep saying it. Sorry but in the era of photoshop, Ebay suctions are a very bad idea unless your purchase too came with a moneyback guarantee.

There is diffusion and sic. deep diffusion, one wears off the other doesn''t.

 

[movie zombie]

imo, a money back guarantee with a minimum of 7 days preview is a must. and as a novice stone buyer i''d also want to know that the seller is readily available to answer questions during the preview period!

the only way i''d buy a stone for setting from eBay is if i''d be willing to eat the costs if i didn''t like it. i wouldn''t risk it for something as important as an e-ring or wedding ring unless it was meant to be a ''temporary'' ring. and it that''s the case, i''d probably opt for a lab-created gem.

but this is just me based on my limited experience.....

peace, movie zombie

 

[Stephen147]

Alright thank you.

The local jewler (we have one...) can order in some AAA stones. I was wondering if anyone has one they can show me before I make him go through the effort of doing so. They run about $250 a carat, I have seen places online sell AAA stones for about $60 a carat though. But what I am having a bit of trouble with is that they all seem to look differnt, color, vividness, there doesn''t seem to be a constant, at least what I have seen. I have heard of a level called super as well, but I have only seen one place that sells thoughs and I don''t know if that was just something they did or not.

Thanks for the help!

 

[movie zombie]

how about contacting

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/products1.asp?color=Blue

and tell them what you''re looking for?

i''m thinking that most online providers don''t list their entire inventory and/or have sources that they can call when they''re looking for something specific.

beauty, though, is in the eye of the beholder. reading posts at pricescope re blue sapphires just reinforces for me that the ''pros'' may have an ''industry standard'' in mind but an individual may actually like something a little less ''perfect''. for instance, most consider blue aquamarine to be the ideal while i personally prefer some green in my aqua.

peace, movie zombie

 

[Stephen147]

Thank you, I''ll do that
I have emailed a few places, but it is the weekend, hopefully I will hear back within a day or two.

 

[valeria101]

"AAA" and whatever are your jeweler's words and nothing more. He has the liberty to asign them to anything.

If those pears are what you want, everything else does not matter, of course. Somehow, thinking of the best pair of sapphire pears without endless patience & cash to put forth... Chatam comes to mind - those would most likely come cut better and matched better than treated naturals.

Diffusion does affect an outer layer only, but this is sapphire, and that layer will take a generation of rough wearing to get scratched away.

What setting do you have in mind ? Your plan for colored sides reminded me of this "bargain"

 

[Stephen147]

I am planning on literally making the ring. I am a blacksmith artist, though not a professional jeweler, I have been making it since I was probably 8 every now and then. The nice thing about being able to make things is I can make things I''d never be able to afford, especially since I am just now finishing up with college.

Diamond in the middle, two pear shaped sapphires on the sides. I don''t think she has a clue that I remember when she said how much she loved sapphires about 3.5 years ago, its why they are important

. The prong settings will be integrated into the rest of the ring, a sort of tiffany like style. Clean and unique. I can see why now you see more rings with a color stone in the center and two diamonds on the side, a pair of diamonds are so much easier to find.

If diffusion won''t fade in our life time, then it is fine. I guess it shouldn''t really matter if someone heats it to give it color or heats it and puts something on it. I would love to have them to of never of been treated in any way, but that is something that is going to have to probably be compromised. I would like to have it be natural, there is an importance to us that it was found and not made, even if it means a lesser stone.

Thanks!

 

[bar01]

Date: 4/9/2005 3:24:26 PM
Author: Stephen147

Since I have yet to come across any, does anyone have an ball park numbers of what I should be exepcting to spend for the pair earlier discribed? I am starting to feel like a man trying to buy a new Corvette for under $10,000. Possible, really not likely.







Thanks for the help and the eyes

Thats about it. Fine sapphires are rare and expensive. I know you would like to find that new corvette for $10,000 but it is not possible, not even close. Kind of like trying to find an expectional 1ct diamond for $2000.

Perhaps you might consider other blue colored stones? Maybe Tanzanite?

About Sapphire Prices and other stuff about sapphires please check this old link out -

Old Price Scope Discussion on Sapphires

 

[valeria101]

Some samples...
(right click on the pictures to see web sources)

medium dark / strong saturation (they say), 5x5mm , 1.25cts, $750

StevePerryGems.com lists a smaller pair of 4 x 4mm and about .7cts tcw comes at $250

probably better color than above because of larger size, 7 x 6 mm, 2 ctw, $1500

blue spinel pair, 7 x 5mm, 2.3 tcw, $200 (!)

well, ruby is sort of sapphire... and these are nice and well matched, IMO
5 x 5mm, 1.3 tcw, $900

Several pairs of diverse qualities and prices (starting at about $20 ) listed by Creativegem.com. The site works well for price refference. Probably a useful reality-checak for the "AAA" stuff at the local store.

AJS Gems presents a couple of pairs, and the one below (almost 6 x 6 mm 1.7 tcw, $450 and 7 x 5, 1.9tcw, $500) seems to match your specs best.

The short pair seems better matched... At least there were no problems returning merchandise to tis show, and there are some refferences for AJS on this forum.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[MJO]

Stephen147

I can vouch for Arnold and Rung at AJS. I have bought some great stones from them and can tell you they really tell the truth about their merchandise.

 

[Stephen147]

Thanks for the help.
If she hadn''t mentioned how much she loved sapphires so long ago, I may of tried other blue stones, but they would not mean as much since she did.

I am currently waiting to hear back from a few places, one place looks promising in that there is a 15 day evualtion period and a no questions asked full credit return.

One questions I have come across is what Australian rough means. Normaly I would think that this was just an uncut stone from Australia, but in all the definations with it its listed like :

AA- Clean, medium to medium/dark. Australian rough, good cut/polish/brilliance, little/no color zoning

Thanks again for the help, lol, this place really is helpful

 

[movie zombie]

still rough and needing to be ''gem'' cut.

lonewoodminer is a pricescope poster and is an australian sapphire miner. send him a private e-mail:

https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/profile/myprofile.asp?userID=11499

ok, she mentioned years ago her love of sapphires. you want to make her dream come true in an engagement ring.
however, compromise is necessary given the budget.

personally, i''d rather have a knockout lab-created blue sapphire than to receive a really included, cloudy, etc. natural blue sapphire. i may not have to have the ''best'' sapphire, but i wouldn''t want to get one that made me feel like i''d ''settled for less''. perhaps the additional compromise could be for a 5th or 10th anniversary a real sapphire?

maybe a rethink of the stone design would allow you to get a blue sapphire set as a middle stone/solitaire?

also, check out concave cuts by richard homer:

http://www.webgraphicsengineering.com/Gemstones/query3.cfm?yVarieties=Sapphire&ySpecies=Corundum

peace, movie zombie

 

[Stephen147]

To her it would mean far more to remember such a thing than to have a prettier stone. It is the same with something not being lab created. In this case, to us, settleing for less is not the option of buying the best natural sapphire I could. The thought behind it is the true gift, not the stone itself.

Thanks.

 

[widget]

Author: MJO

I can vouch for Arnold and Rung at AJS; I have bought some great stones from them and can tell you they really tell the truth about their merchandise.

I''ve had really good experiences with them too...and there is no hassle with their return policy.

Have you thought of having a dealer (such as AJSgems) find (or have cut) stones for you?

widget

 

[movie zombie]

stephan 147, i agree the sentiment for natural is great. what i''m saying is that a really bad stone just isn''t worth it, no matter the sentiment.

i like the analogy you used in trying to get a new corvette for $10k: impossible....you can''t even get a ''knock off'' for that.

but there are lots of stones inbetween out there and being patient, going for smaller size, etc. may get you what you''re looking for. widget''s idea of having something cut for you could be worth exploring.

and i have no idea if this is possible or not but how about melee or pave shaped as pears? gets you away from having to worry about matched sizes, colors, etc. just an idea... pricescopers: how feasible is this and would be be less expensive?

peace, movie zombie

 

[Stephen147]

Ah I see what your saying. I have had the option of getting lower quality stones, and pasted on them. Something will be found. Now though I do not expect to find a b5/5 pair of sapphires, I would not say it impossible, highly improbably, but not impossible. I''m not holding my breath mind you.

I have started to see if someone can facet them, but one of the problems is time.

Thanks!

 

[MJO]

Hello Widget,

I just emailed them and asked them to put 2 tsavorites on hold for me. I saw them when he was in the US last year and just decided to take them. When he was here I bought a 6.5+ct Roval Tsavorite that was the best crystal and color I have seen. The 3.55ct pear shape is almost as good IMHO so I decided to order that along with the 11ct. I also brought him to a friend of mine and he took a beautiful ruby.

 

[leggs]

In my opinion don''t be afraid to consider color change sapphires for engagement ring because they sparkle like the finest diamonds. I too had an hopeless search for inexpensive sapphire and I found mine in ebay for 30 dollars,the seller I bought from was gemandgem.I found a list of reliable gem dealers in ebay from a collector.
For sentiment I bought a amythyst for an engagement ring when what i really wanted was an alexandrite 16 years ago. Reality was that i lost the amythyst tried to replicate it with the alex and 16 years later I still couldn''t afford the alex so I settled for a gorgeous purple blue color change sapphire. Good luck in your search and marriage and remember it''s not the stone that matters it''s the love attached to the stone.

Bye