Find a jeweller you trust, and let him do his job.

[Manks]

When I was young, I used to look like James Dean. Twenty years later and too many dinners out, I have gained thirty pounds and don't look so hot as I once did. However, I have a good tailor and he can make me look quite slim and good looking. I just pick out a cloth and tell him what I want, two fittings later and I look like a movie star. My tailor is a craftsman and I trust him.

I cannot tell you what I bought today, for security reasons (Christmas

) but today I went to a jeweller I know I can trust and said "right, I have this budget, and want stones of H or above, X weight and I don't care about clarity providing that the stones are well-cut and sparkle beautifully".

So, I gave him a free hand to choose some stones for me and make what I wanted. I trusted him to pick out some nice rocks that would be the best my budget would buy. By saying that I wasn't bothered about having certified stones and allowing him to pick out stones of a clarity suited to the job, I got good value stones - I don't mind the odd inclusion if its well-placed and cut is good.

Today, I collected the work. ITS FABULOUS. He has picked me out some XXcwt, H-Si3 ("I1" if you prefer) stones that match perfectly, are eye clean and are so sparkly they are a danger to air traffic

. What's more, the item cost about 50% of an equivalent pre-assembled one from a jewellery store.

So, like I said. If you find a jeweller you trust, give him a brief and let him do his (or her) job. Chances are you'll love the result.

Merry Christmas

 

[denverappraiser]

Congratualtions.

After christmas, give us pictures

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Manks]

Yes, I most certainly will.

 

[Regular Guy]

I'm sympathetic with this view. I think Rank Amateur has expressed it, too. Partly, this view can help you stretch beyond where you might otherwise go, in terms of being nice to not only your spouse but yourself (as a jewler I trusted eased my decision to get a better than average wedding band).

But, as the old saying goes, I think you both need to trust, and verify. Alternately, maybe trust can only be a relative term.

For example, what does it mean to say you trust a jewler that doesn't also have equipment to measure crown & pavilin angles, and suggests a GIA stone, where these are not marked. On what basis of any sort can we understand that -- to use your words -- they understand the stone you purchase would be "well-cut and sparkle beautifully." Have they developed a good eye? Just what can that mean? I'm not sure I understand what the training for that would be. And even if you think an ideal scope will do the job...I don't think any of these guys knows them, anyway.

So, you could consider trusting and verifying. When house shopping, I can use a database that limits the houses I'm looking at to just ones with central air (mine, though, has window units). Likewise, I might seek to trust a local jeweler, and for more minor purchases, Kripps that is a block a way is a place I should get to know. But, should I buy another e-level ring, I don't think I'd consider buying from anyplace without the requisite technology to make the kind of qualitative decisions I would be seeking.

On some pages, when diamonds are posted, posters say for GIA stones...half of them say....get it sarined. Where on earth can we expect them to go. In metro DC, having called both Sarin & Ogi, I understand only 3 open shops have these things....Charleston Alexander (has both), Washington Diamond, and Christian Bernard. DCD has Ogi, but is not an open shop. No appraiser in the area has invested in one, and that's the whole enchilada...for a rather major metropolitan area.

Longer ago, I had been keeping my eye out for Lazare cut diamonds, which I knew had this look. You say...trust your jewler. Frankly, my jewler, who I had hoped I could trust...Savitt in New Haven, and who came with an excellent reputation...never really even then could respond to my explicit requests, for a well cut diamond. Now, knowing a bit more...I've got the power.

My shopping choices are just a bit more narrow now. Maybe revolutions are coming...with Pricescope helping GIA move its standard.

Other views? Or am I missing something basic here?

 

[strmrdr]

Its also a good way to get swindled out of your money too.
There are some good folks out there that you can trust to do good by you but there are a lot more untrustworthy ones.

 

[hoorray]

My problem is that trust comes with experience. Anyone can talk a good line, but to really trust, you have to know that they deliver what they say. That''s the hard part with big ticket items like jewelry. You don''t get a lot of chances, and you don''t want to go through a few bad experiences to find the person you can trust implicitly. If you are lucky, you can get a good reference from someone you trust, but if you are new to an area or doing things that your friends aren''t into, it gets harder. Your solution sounds somewhat idealistic if you don''t already have an established relationship with a jeweler, as many of the young people coming here don''t.

 

[Manks]

Ah, we seem to have got onto "due diligence" here. In order that you can trust a professional, you need to make enough background checks to know that you can trust him or her.

I am not a diamond expert. However, I have done a fair bit of reading and a lot of listening. I could not tell you what crown and pavillion angles will give you the best fire. However, I''ll bet I could pick out 99 out of 100 bogus "diamond specialists". Why? Because I know enough to know when I am being BSed, and can usually read people fairly well.

Sure, there is maybe 1 in 100 "expert swindlers" that will catch me out. So I have the choice of becoming a diamond expert, or using my judgement and showing some trust. Due to the fact that I have other things to do with the next ten years of my life, I choose the latter.

Regards

 

[lostdog]

Everybody has their own threshold of comfort they need to have.

Think of how many people are convinced they got a good deal on a big purchase, a new car for example.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't What they did get was a comfort level that satisfied them. There are two ways to do this, one, find out as much information as possible, or two, don't look too closely if you feel okay about it.

We all have to find our own level of dumb and happy or we'd go crazy, I think.

Still, my experience has been that buying a diamond makes buying a used car look like a snap.

The whole experience revolves around the jeweler making the customer confident enough to pull the trigger.

If you can do that because somebody who stands to profit from the deal is saying "Trust me", then you're all set. And there's no reason you can't get a nice stone from a reputable retailer. Could you have had a much nicer one for the same price? The same one for a much lower price? Is the stone really of the quality they say it is? The answers to these matter to some people. A great deal.

Admittedly there's a point of diminishing returns, but knowledge of the diamond issues is real power for a consumer.

To use your suit analogy, are you getting off-the-rack when you are paying for custom-made? Tailoring the decent off-the-rack suit can make it look good, but making it to order would work magic. You know which suit you are buying, but you are depending on the jeweler to tell you which diamond you just bought.

 

[perry]

What you are describing is possible.... However, as others have said how do you know that you can really trust them without checking some data.

The other thing that seems suspicious. 50% for what a preassembled ring cost... Eye clean I1...

This sounds like clarity enhanced diamonds. By definition an eye clean I1 does not exist (and I think that I have looked at enough diamonds to know as I can see the flaws in SI2 and usually SI1 diamonds).

There is one local jeweler in my area (40 mile radius) that had better than average cut diamonds (via my inspection with an IdealScope). He said he did not really know the ins and outs of what made a good cut. He trusted his supplier to supply him with the diamonds of the quality that he was looking for.

Perry

 

[Regular Guy]

1) What's the other thread.

2) if the best you've got is:

"each one of us could tell which ones sparkled nicely and which ones were duds without the aid of any measurements or tools save our own two eyes..."

I cannot say I agree. Give me even several options, and I am highly ambivalent and confused. Yes, at the end of the day, it is only against my own visual perceptions that I will be happy or not, but the sense of the reliability that I bring to the process...the sense of differential -- the subtlety to which I feel I am not personally sensitive to...this is a problem.

When going to an optician, the only set of perceptions you have to work with are your perceptions, and so he walks you through. Seemingly (today at least), those perceptions are all you got.

The tailor is a good example where you can see a "modestly" trained professional providing a substantial benefit, and indeed, whereas I might lack confidence about coordinating my clothes, I have sought out a clothier to get assistance with putting that together. I can see where his experience and study in this area will have paid off for him, and so for me.

3) Diamonds are different. Take buying a computer. I can get the same HP from Target, even Circuit City, or CompUSA. At Target, I might already be there, so it's convenient. Likewise, with Circuit City, maybe they're running a special, and they could send it out for service. Only at CompUSA will the guy have technical wherewithall to help me, and further, they not only have a tech support department in house, but I can get a 3 year warrantee, letting me have the guy come to my house when there's a problem. There is a good enough likelihood there will be a problem that I take the warrantee. I get no other warrantees.

Jewerly...Jewelers can do a nice job with the setting, to help show off the diamond. Maybe Superbcert makes its money on those, more than anything. But the diamond itself...since we've know that it's the physics that will differentiate one from another...although you can use a shovel to dig youself out in the snow...they have snow blowers now, you know.

 

[Manks]

Perry

If you think about it, its possible to have an eye clean I1 stone once its mounted - it depends on how big the stones are, where the inclusion (s) might be and how good your eye is. As you start to drop down to I2 and I3 its usually possible to see major issues with even poor eyesight and a small stone.

"Trust but verify" always makes me smile. However, I do it all the time. In the case of this deal, I went to Birmingham (UK) jewelley quarter and picked out a company that I had not worked with before, but who has a long-standing good reputation and has been trading 40 years. Due to their trading histoory, I trusted them (to some degree).

My knowledge of diamonds is basic. Most of my knowledge pertains to RBC stones, and I could probably tell you a good stone from a hound at face value. I couldn't spot a "doctored" stone or anything tricky I suspect. However, due to the nature of this purchase (more after Christmas), I was quite confident that what I was paying for was exactly what I was getting.

Due to the fact I paid around a half the price for this item, as I would have in a regular store, and that I am only an "amateur gem fan" its possible that I have been sold a dud here. However, if he were going to do that, do you think the jeweller would have told me the stones were "H-I and I1"? Nope, he'd have told me at least H and Si1 because to the naked eye it would be very hard to tell otherwise.

After Christmas, I'll post a picture of the item and you can tell me what you think. However, I am going to bet now that what I have is what I thought I was getting - i.e. some stones that have a modest grading but that perform well in the item of jewellery they adorn. I.e. I have allowed an expert in his field to do a job to a fixed budget and asked him t give me the best value for money he can.

In summary, I have approached a well-respected jeweller and said to him "look, I trust you. Use your skill to give me the best deal you can for my money". If I have judged the man and the jewellery correctly, I have got what I asked for. If I have misread him, and misunderstood what I have bought, then I have been conned. I strongly believe that the situation is the former. It comes down to whether the man is a professional or a rogue.

Regards

 

[perry]

Manks:

In the end, if you are happy with the diamond for the money, fine with me.

However, nothing you have said changes my mind about questioning the quality and suspecting the possiblity of a clarity enhanced diamond. Of course, I am suspicious by nature - which is why any diamond I buy goes to an independent appraiser.

However, that may not matter to you at all.

Enjoy it, and have a nice christmass