Finally found the perfect setting, but...

[MikeM]

My girlfriend and I were shopping for an engagement ring the other day, and we found one that she really liked at Zales Outlet; however, the vendor who supplies them with their rings will only let them choose a diamond for the ring based on color, clarity, and size, but not cut.

A few days later, we went to the non-outlet version of Zales, hoping that they could get the same ring and exchange the diamond that comes with the ring for another one; however, when I asked if they could provide me with an Ideal-Scope image, or an Ogi, Sarin, or Helium report for the new diamond, I only received blank stairs.

Since then I’ve tried to find similar settings at Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, and Blue Nile, but I haven’t had much luck.

I also attached a rough sketch of the ring that we saw. Thanks in advance if anyone could direct me to where they saw a similar setting somewhere else.

On a side note: I think that I may have also noticed that one of the prongs holding one of the smaller side diamonds in place (please see attached sketch) extended over the diamond a little less than the other three. I wonder if this says something about the vendor’s workmanship. Could someone please comment?

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[jaz464]

Have you considered having it made for you? Whiteflash does excellent custom work. They are finishing up on a unique setting for me this week and the wax and pictures they have sent me have been great-very accurate. WF could definatly do this for you, and their prices are very competitive.

 

[MikeM]

Thanks jazmine.

I have considered having it custom made; however, I was worried it might add $2000 or more to the price, but I haven''t really investigated that option yet. Did having it custom made considerably increase the price of your ring? Also, do you know what they would need to be able to make it? i.e. would photographs suffice?

 

[Kaleigh]

All WF would need to make this ring for you is some detailed photo''s. They will send you wax images so you can do any tweaking if necessary. I''d give them a call and discuss it with them. They are reasonably priced. Worth a shot at least. Good luck!!

 

[MikeM]

Thanks kaleigh.

At first when I considered having it custom made, I thought that I was going a little overboard, but after what you and jazmine said, I think that may be the best choice.

 

[devientdrow]

I think I found your ring on Zales online store:

http://www.zales.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2141739&cp=2109180.2137034..&pg=3&parentPage=search&cp=2109180.2137034.&f=PAD%2FRing+Style%2FSolitaire+w%26%23047%3B+Side+Accent&pageURL=..%2Fsearch%2Findex.jsp%3FparentPage%3Dsearch%26cp%3D2109180.2137034.%26f%3DPAD%252FRing%2BStyle%252FSolitaire%2Bw%2526%2523047%253B%2BSide%2BAccent%26searchId%3D5442306504&searchId=5442306504&parentPage=search&searchId=5442312062

It doesn''t say anything about any of the specs on the diamond but thats an awesome setting!!!

 

[jaz464]

I sent them some drawings (not so good, I'm definatly not an artist) and some pictures I found online. I wanted some qualities from each of the pictures I sent so it seemed a little confusing at first. However, the wax looked exactly like what I was looking for. If devientdrow found the correct setting and it is $3500, then I'm sure that WF could do it for the same price or cheaper. You might be surprised at how reasonable custom is. Many custom quotes I recieved were lower than the name brand settings.

 

[Lynn B]

I was surprised at first too... my rings were custom made by WF and the prices really are quite comparable to "pre-made" pieces.

 

[gailrmv]

What a cool setting! Usually I don''t like things so complex, but that is just awesome! I wonder if they make a matching wedding band.
I think the price is $3500 including the 1 ct center stone, not just for the setting, which changes things a lot. I wonder if it a very good center stone b/c the price seems too good to be true. If you could get any specs on the diamond, that would help you make up your mind. It is probably not as good of a diamond as what you could get at Whiteflash, but the price sounds great. You just never know til you have the specs. How did it look (the center stone)?
Good luck and congrats on finding something so unique and tasteful!

 

[gailrmv]

PS Could you buy it, have it appraised, and return it if not good?
I would be real careful about workmanship too, my first setting had sidestones that kept coming loose (NOT from Zales though) and it was a pain to keep getting it fixed - especially since we bought it from out of state and so I had no one locally to do repairs for free!

 

[MikeM]

devientdrow, thank you so much for looking, and thanks for the complement. I searched Zales online store, but obviously I didn''t do nearly as good of a job -- thanks. I really hope you didn''t go through too much trouble. I probably should have listed the item number they gave me at the Zales outlet store, 16771412, it might have helped you to find it, sorry about that.

Also, do you (or anyone else) think that it looks too fragile? The baguettes are practically suspended in mid-air; all of the other rings I’ve seen (really haven’t seen that many) with baguettes have bands on the ends holding them in place.

 

[MikeM]

devintdrwo,

Just realized how amazing it was that you were able to find the exact ring I was talking about from my bad drawing. I really hope you didn''t go through too much effort. Thanks again.

jasmin and Lynn B,

Thank you for your advice, even if WF was more expensive I wouldn''t mind. I would really like to be able to hand pick the center stone; their setting would probably be of higher quality too. I think that one of the four prongs holding one of the small side diamonds in place was a little shorter than the other three.

gailrmv,

Thanks for the input, and the complements. Actually, it even looks less complex when you see it in person, if you can believe that, I think it''s because the band is so thin. I''m not certain if they make a matching wedding band; however, do you know, with the diamonds running down the side of the ring, if that would cause any trouble with a wedding band next to it (I think they sit flush with the ring)? Or would it be possible to wear the two separately -- forgive my ignorance?

I probably should go back and take a better look at the center stone; however, it didn''t look too bad, but I really shouldn''t say because my knowledge of diamonds is really rather poor. I think that most if not all of their rings come with either GSL or IGI certs. If I purchased an Ideal Scope, would that, in combination with the certs, tell me enough about the diamond, or would I have to get it appraised -- again please forgive me ignorance?

Zales Outlet does have a 30 day return / 90 day exchange policy.

 

[MissAva]

This is the ring pictured in the link above.
I can see why you liked it however I would at least before purchasing the ring from Zales email Whiteflash and ask them how much this setting would cost without the center stone. Their stones will be a higher quality and should you or your SO ever want to trade up with Whiteflash you can (100% of the cost of the stone) and with Zales you are out of luck. Also can you have a wedding band sit flush with your engagment ring with the stock Zales one? If not Whiteflash (or other custom jeweler) can alter the design to allow a flush fit.
It would bother me to not know the ct weight of each stone and the information about that stone...IMO it cannot hurt to ask WF.

 

[gailrmv]

Ya know, good point, it might be hard to wear a matching wedding band because of the stones running down the side unless they make a matching one where the shapes align properly. Some people get their rings soldered (semi permanently welded together) in these cases so that the two rings do not continue to rub against eachother. Other people wear just an engagement ring, or wear their two rings on diff hands.
If you got something similar custom made you could always have them modify the design so it wouldn''t be a problem.
Without seeing it in person (and even if I did, since I am not an expert) it is really hard to say much about the quality of the setting. As far as I know Zales is not known for great quality or price. I''d consider buying it or having it made in plat so that it is less likely to bend and get loose stones. It seems like the price is too good to be true for a 1 ct center stone let alone good quality setting, and when it seems too good, it usually is.
If you love this exact one, and wouldn''t want to change a thing about the setting, I''d consider buying it and getting it appraised (not just for center stone specs but for overall quality of the setting). A good independent appraiser should know and have no reason to sugarcoat things.

 

[gailrmv]

I agree there is no harm in asking whiteflash!

I also know that most custom jewelers will not exactly copy someone else''s for a multitude of reasons.So if you are in love with this exact setting you may have to get it at Zales. But it never hurts to ask. They may be able to tweak it to make the stones more secure!

I heard that it is really hard to keep baguettes clean and keep them looking as good as new. Not sure if this is true but you may want to search on that topic since the baguettes are so prominent in this setting. Kaleidoscopic will probably know because she has baguettes in her setting.

 

[MikeM]

Oops, sorry about that, actually I think the one we saw had a round stone (see attached), not that there''s much of a difference. http://www.zales.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2141738&cp&kw=16771412

Matatora,

Thanks, I''ll definitely e-mail Whiteflash (I''ll let all of you know what they say -- can I post it here?). I think that having it custom made is probably the way to go.

gailrmv,

Thanks, I''ve been wondering about how the engagement ring and the wedding band should be worn.

I''ll definitely get it in platinum. The salesperson I spoke to at Zales Outlet said that they could get it in platinum; however, do you think that it would be important to get information on the metal(s) it''s alloyed with, or how much platinum is in the mix?

Also, if my girlfriend did want an exact copy and WhiteFlash couldn''t help me, could I ask your opinion on the following: My parent''s neighbors/friends know of someone who sells jewelry out of their home (I think that he may also work at or own a jewelry store too); my parent''s friends and several of their family members have purchased jewelry from him in the past and have been very happy, and they also seem to know him rather well. I''m not sure yet if the person above has Sarin reports or ideal scope images of any of his diamonds.

Thanks for telling me about Kaleidoscopic''s ring, I''ll send her a message, and do a search for baguettes.

 

[pebbles]

I can tell you for certain that WF will not make an exact copy of this ring. I had inquired about making an exact copy of a Scott Kay ring a few months ago and they said they would have to change a few details on it so that it looked like they were not copying it exactly. I understand why they take that stance. I decided not to use them (although I will in the future for other projects) for the SK ring b/c the details they wanted to change were the details that really drew me to that ring. Anyway....

It looks like the baguettes are tension set. Verragio makes a lot of settings with tension set side stones; they are pricey but are very good quality settings (and in platinum). I''ve attached a pic from the Solomon Brothers web site that is similar to the Zales ring, but at $3,120 it does not include the center stone. You may have to be a little more careful of a setting like that b/c more of the girdles on the diamonds are exposed.

I haven''t heard many good things about the quality of Zales rings. One of my friends had several workmanship issues with a ring she bought a few years ago.

If this is the ring that your girlfriend has her heart set on and this is what your budget can afford, I would consider the Zales ring.

 

[pebbles]

Here''s another Verragio setting with round side stones instead of baguettes. At $2,460 a little less than the one with baguettes (my jeweler told me that baguettes are pricey). Looks like Zales got their design ideas from Verragio.

 

[mrssalvo]

When I saw this thread and the baguettes I couldn't help but remember this A Jaffe setting from Pearlmans
Here's what it says on the website:

"Item: 052CO1 - A set of 18kt white gold wedding rings by A Jaffe. This is the signature collection MES014 set with .94ct of VS G-H baguette and bullet shaped diamonds. Center CZ is 1.0ct. Size 7. Retail $6,550.00 Price: $3,275.00"

Definitely keep us posted on what Whiteflash says but I agree with Peebles, they will probably have to make some adjustments to the original design because copying anything exactly that isn't "public domain" is illegal. The Verragio settings look very close and might work too.

 

[gailrmv]

Hi Mike!
As for the friend who sells jewelry from his home, it is so hard to say. I was in a similar situation. My uncle is highly reputable (and he''s family!) and he helped us to get my ring as a favor. He''s sold jewelry out of his home to close family and friends, and he sells to stores for his business. He got us a great price on my dream center stone, but the original setting (which was not his work, but something he ordered for us) had a lot of workmanship issues that became evident later on. I didn''t want to be a pain to him b/c he had done us a favor and gotten us a great deal, and also he was out of state so I didn''t want to keep mailing my ring. I eventually changed settings because it got to be so bothersome. of course, that setting was white gold, and I understand plat should hold sidestones a lot better.
Anyway, to answer your question, it could be the deal of the century, or a nightmare waiting to happen. If you are interested to see his merchandise there seems to be no harm in looking and comparison shopping. If you have any inclination that the quality is bad or if you feel a lot of sales pressure I would be hesitant. Most likely he will not be able to offer you a warranty or do repair work for you (althout I could be wrong). If you find something you love I would not buy it without a written guarantee that you could return it if it did not appraise to your satisfaction.
Good luck!

 

[gailrmv]

To answer the other part of your question, all the plat I''ve ever seen is stamped 950 on the inside. That means it is 950 parts out 1000 platinum. The other 50 are usually iridium I think. Some people are really picky about the alloy. You could probably search PS for more info. I don''t know much about it but it was not something I was real particular about. As long as it is stamped plat 950 you know it is the standard amount of platinum in the alloy!

 

[jaz464]

I think the alloy is very important, it will determine how easily your ring scratches, what color the metal will be, and how strong the setting is. My preference: 90% plat, 10% iridium or preferably 95% plat, 5% ruthenium. 95% plat, 5% iridium only has a hardness of 80 and will dent much faster. The other 2 have hardnesses of 115 and 135, respectively.

 

[devientdrow]

MikeM

It was no problem!! I love looking at jewelry and i''m really familair with the Zales site (for last valentines day I had seen a really cool ring there and used to go admire yet at the website) I found it really fast and from your drawing I could tell it was cool...I wanted to see it anyway

Is your girl kinda rough on jewelry? I understand why you''d be worried about the baugettes. But they look like they tuck into the space really well, as in the setting comes up over them...so I think if she knocked the ring against something it would hit the part of the setting with the small diamonds and protect the baugettes. I kind of like that they are suspended, seems like maybe light could get through better?

 

[devientdrow]

Mike M,
I think if your on a budget where you can''t afford the other setting options here you should try and check out more on the stones involved in it. I have a ring from Zales that I love but it''s not a diamond. I have no problems with the setting (it''s white gold) and it''s held up very well to my clumsy self. I got my engagement ring from Gordons and I love my setting....it''s platinum and I think the world of it.....however the diamond wasn''t that great on it and thats why i''m upgrading. I would go back to Zales and ask more info on the diamond itself. I think you would be fine with that setting.....i''m no expert but most of my g/f''s who are married their husbands didn''t do a lot of research and they went out to regualr mall stores and got rings. The diamonds in them probably aren''t top of the line and some of them wish thier diamond was clearer/bigger/sparklier but i''ve never heard one of them have problems or issues with thier setting myself included. Now in my opinion this all has to do with how fast you want to get this done. I know a lot of chicks who would hate the idea of trading in thier whole engagement ring......for sentimental reasons. However most of them are ok with the idea of getting a good diamond in a plain setting and possibly upgrading the setting letter.....or keeping thier setting and upgrading the diamond in it. If you and your girl are in no real rush to get engaged.....i''d say save up some more.........I think you could find a similar non brand name setting for under 1k then buy the diamond seperate. The zales diamond could be ok..........but it''s probably not the best quality out there. If you''d like to get engaged now...and my thinking is yes if you''ve already gotten her all excited by looking at rings! You could always purchase the zales ring now and later on upgrade the diamond if you find out the quality isn''t the best.......or buy a diamond now in a plain setting and tell her that you can upgrade to a setting more her style later. If she wants to marry you I guarentee she''ll just be happy to get engaged.

 

[MikeM]

I just had another thought, when we were at the Zales outlet, they said that they got their rings from a vendor – from the impression I got it seemed like they purchased from several different vendors. I wonder if WhiteFlash could buy the ring from that vendor if I could somehow find out the name of the vendor, and then replace the center stone.

pebbles,

Thank you very much for looking, those Verragio settings look really nice. I wonder if there is any way that we could see them in person?

I think the two reasons that she was initially drawn to the Zales ring, was because it was kind of simple (it actually looks even simpler in person), and there''s only a small amount of metal showing when you look at it from the top (which I think may contribute to the reason it looks kind of simple). Please comment on my analysis if you don''t mind -- I''ve been trying to think of the reasons we liked it.

Thanks for telling me about your friend and her experience with her Zales ring.

I was also thinking (I haven’t talked to WhiteFlash yet) if I only told WF what I wanted only through words and drawings, would that be considered copying (especially since I’m not a very good artist), or would I be walking kind of a fine line? I’ll wait to hear from some of you first before I contact them.

mrssalvo,

That A Jaffe setting looks like something she might be interested in. Do you think that they’ll have it for a long if it’s on closeout? I think the reason she liked the setting from Zales was because it was a little more than a solitaire, but not too much more.

Gailrmv,

Maybe it wouldn’t be a good idea to go with my parent’s neighbor’s friend especially since I don’t think that I could tell the difference between a good and a bad setting. I saw strmrdr’s (sp?) thread about the 5 stone ring that Good Old Gold custom made, but I had to look really hard to see what he was talking about.

Jasmine,

Thanks for the info on the various platinum alloys. Do you think that WF would let me choose the alloy if I had it custom made.

Devientdrow,

Thanks again, I’m still amazed at how you found it from my bad drawing.

I don’t think that she’s too rough on her things; all of the jewelry I’ve gotten her is still in pretty good shape (1 ring, 1 necklace, 1 pair earrings). She’s also a school teacher, so she doesn’t really do anything too rough with her hands at work. However, she did get a watch from her mother that she doesn’t like because the band catches on her clothing. Do you think that the setting we were looking at would catch on things easily? We were thinking about not getting a marquise for that reason.

I was thinking the same thing: Having the baguettes suspended would allow them to catch more light. The side stones in that ring did seem brighter than the others, I wonder if that was the reason why.

I was thinking of spending around $6000, but $7000 or maybe even $8000 might be ok if we found one that she really liked a lot at that price.

The Zales Outlet had a 1 year guarantee upgradeable to a two year guarantee, and the regular Zales had a lifetime guarantee; however, I’m not sure what they guarantee. On your ring, do you know if they will replace any of the stones if they are lost?

I think that she is kind of sentimental.

We were planning on getting married in June.

One a side note: Several years ago, my mother lost her stone from her marquis solitaire when she was clapping her hands in church; however, the lady behind her saw it on the floor and returned it to her.

 

[jaz464]

WF uses 95% plat and 5% ruthenium so you have no worries

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 12/6/2005 4:49:54 PM
Author: MikeM

mrssalvo,


That A Jaffe setting looks like something she might be interested in. Do you think that they’ll have it for a long if it’s on closeout? I think the reason she liked the setting from Zales was because it was a little more than a solitaire, but not too much more.

Hey Mike,
I would give Bill pearlman a call
Pearlmans he is very friendly and helpful. He has been known to ship rings out for viewing for those of us who don''t live near by. If it''s something you''d really be interested I''d talk to him. A jaffe is a high quality designer and the settings are made very well. I for one would like not having to go through a custom project unless what i wasn''t out there all ready made. IF you think she''d like it, have him send it too you. It''s a super great deal on those rings too. You could still find your own center stone or bill would be happy to find something for you.

 

[devientdrow]

Mike
So your getting married pretty soon right? Well you have a good budget MUCH large than mine is!!! I guess it all depends on the route you want to go now. The only mall store that I saw that carried stones seperate from the setting was Gordons and DO NOT BUY THERE!! They are INSANELY pricey for what the offer. I don''t like Jared very much eithier..........however I think you can find something good, they are just going to mark it up a little and try and sell you somethintg and make it sound better than it is. What I had to do was go there.....write down all the specs on the IGI cert card then CALL IGI and ask for all the other measurements that really matter and I wasn''t happy with what I found out. HOWEVER....they do have A LOT of setting and you could certainly find something there close to the setting at Zales and if your going platinum then perhaps you can get a really nice setting for under 1k....then you can always pay the mark up (but make sure to do your research and homework!!) and get a diamond and Jared or get one online at one of the many reccomend sites and Jareds can place the diamond into it....I don''t think it''s that pricey.

Or you could get the whole deal online....that one option someone suggested looked really nice. Do you have any other smaller owned independent stores in your area that sell loose diamonds?

I think the Zales ring is awesome looking, especially online. As far as warranties go...usually the lifetime ones cover the whole deal. You will need to bring your ring in every 6 months and they will clean it and check the prongs. I believe it covers all the normal stuff as in resizing......replacing prongs...that stuff. Same with the diamond....they check it and clean it and they cover it usually in most cases of loss, but there always are a few fine print situations then they don''t cover. I am curious to what you''ll find out when you ask the specifics about the diamond in and of itself. I''m hoping it is good....it means a lot when a ring stands out to someone. If this ring was the one she was in love with then even if the diamond ISN''T that great it may be worth it! You just want to make sure that you KNOW what the qualities of the diamond are and don''t be afraid to be assertive. Ask them if it''s certified....if not do they have an appraiser they work with that could appraise it for you before purchase? Ask if you can walk outside the store with the sales associate and see what the diamond looks like under different light.

 

[MikeM]

jazmine,

Thanks for the info.

mrssalvo,

Thanks, I just checked map quest and Pearlman’s is only a 2 hour and 43 min drive from me. We could definitely go there and back in a day.

This weekend I’ll show my girlfriend some of the rings on Pearlman’s website.

Devientdrow,

Do you think I’m spending too much? Maybe I should aim a little lower? I’m really not that wealthy.

I do have a Jared that’s about 20 min from my house.

Thanks, I didn’t even know that I could call IGI to get additional information about the diamond.

As far as smaller jewelry stores in the area, there are quite few smaller independent ones that we haven’t seen yet, my parent’s neighbors also own a jewelry store, and there’s also a place called jeweler’s row in Chicago, which isn’t too far from me. Have you ever heard anything about any of the stores there? I did a search of the forums for “Chicago”, and I kind of got mixed reviews on the jewelers in jeweler’s row.

I was also thinking that maybe the quality of the diamond is only important to me. My girlfriend doesn’t seem quite as much into selecting a good diamond as I am. However, I think that finding a high quality setting probably would be important even to her later on.

 

[mrssalvo]

hey Mike, you might want to do a search here and read up on IGI. they are not looked to highly upon and many will tell you to stay away.