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Final Decision??? Please Help!!!

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Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
Please help me. I can not decide.

After months and months of research and looking for the perfect ring for my intended, I think I am nearing the culmination of the process. I have received a great deal of help and knowledge from this forum, thanks to the experts and general consumers alike. Rhino at GoodOldGold has found three diamonds that he called in and inspected form me. Rhino has really been a great help throught this process despite my difficult and selective nature.

Now, I have three diamonds that I need your help to choose from. Attached you will find a picture of the ring that I am considering having Mark Morrell make for this diamond. The three diamonds I have to choose from are at the following links.

1) 1.04 ct F/SI1 at http://www.goodoldgold.com/pear_1_04ct_f_si1.htm

2) 1.14 ct F/VS2 at http://www.goodoldgold.com/pear_1_14ct_f_vs2.htm

3) 1.14 ct E/VS1 at http://www.goodoldgold.com/pear_1_14ct_e_vs1.htm

I know that she wants to have a pear shaped diamond in a platinum solitare setting. Now I just need to decide. My main concern is with the quality of the cut. I know that it is very difficult to determine cut quality completely off of this information but please just give me your thoughts and opinions.

I would like to get the best, but at the same time I don't want to go broke. The ring itself is going to run $1600. Therefore I seem to be left with these options.

A) Purchase the the lower price diamond and get the top quality Mark Morrell ring.

B) Purchase the top quality diamond and get a lessor quality ring.

C) Don't worry about the price and quit being cheap or else regret it.

I will refrain from giving my comments on the diamonds until I recieve some of your opinions. I know all three of these diamond are very good quality so even if you are unfamiliar with pear shapes please comment on my $$$ delema.

Thank you, everyone for your help.

P.S. Rhino I know your opinion, please try to refrain from commenting, at least for until I get some other ideas


MM ring.jpg
 

slmulkey

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
133
I like the look of the first one better than the second. The second one looks a little to skinny at the end. Keep in mind though that this is just my opinion based on looking at the photographs. I know nothing about what the dimensions of a pear shape should be in terms of l/w ratio etc. For me its hard to compare the first two diamonds to the third as there is not a regular photograph. The brilliance scope reading looks good on that one though.

I would go with the opinion of the expert though (Rhino) unless the diamond he likes best is out of your price range.

I think that most people would say to spend your money on the diamond versus the setting. I would disagree though as the setting is what makes a ring look interesting and unique. Of course since you are going with a pear shape, that is plenty interesting enough, and it would still look interesting even in a plain jane tiffany setting.

Good luck, I'm sure that you'll pick the right one for you.
 

jetcaptain

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Messages
72
After looking at the diamonds for quite some time, I think that I would buy the 1.04/F/SI1 diamond and get the setting you want. Without a doubt, the 1.14/E/VS1 is very nice. But to me, I don't think that there is enough visible difference to make it worth the extra cost, especially if it meant either a lesser setting or burdensome debt. But I see your dilemma, because all three diamonds are very nice, and it is a close call. You know your budget and your sweetie best, so I'm sure you'll do great.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Wow Rook what a tough decision!! Being completely pear-clueless, these all look very beautiful when you just view the diamond itself (except the last one because it didnt have a picture of the stone).

Having said that, they all look amazingly similar with their light return/IdealScope image, it's very hard for me to tell the difference between the cheaper and the most expensive using that image. Did anyone else have that problem?!

How I *could* see a difference was in the BrillianceScope images. Color light was better in the 1.14 F VS2 than the 1.04 definitely...both on the bar and in the sparkle animation of the stone. Much more fiery and colorful in the animation...brighter look. For me (I know the others said that they liked the 1.04), I really did not like the first stone (1.04), it looked like one of those stones that they use for the BrillianceScope 'mall' comparisons, not bright enough and no color. I know this is a pear and not a round, so there are no real die-hard standards for the fancies...but the 1.14 F VS2 middle of the road stone seemed to me to be the best out of the three. As I said the first stone I just thought looked weak. The 2nd stone, the one I liked, had much more fire and scintillation appearing in the brilliancescope animation (open 2 browsers, compare the animations side by side), and the 3rd one looks like a real stunner, but not for that price hike. It doesn't seem worth it, even after Rhino's Cindy Crawford comparison!
Hee Hee.

So my recommendation is to go for the 2nd stone (F VS2), the middle of the road pricing, and get that AMAZING setting you posted above...its GORGEOUS and will look beautiful with the stone, super classy. You mentioned budget and not being 'cheap'. I really do think that budgets come into play when searching for a stone and a ring, but in the long run what is an extra $500-1000 dollars when compared against the next however many years? Our budget started out at W and at the end of the process we were closer to Z. But in the long run, it will take my fiance just an extra few months to pay it off, this is the ONLY debt he has except for his MBA school loans, and it just made more sense to get what we both really wanted and not look back. So if this stone and the ring are a little out of the budget, I agree with what you said to tell you...Don't be cheap!
Also, don't go overboard...but there is a nice middle ground. Plus that setting is amazing.


Good luck!! Let us know what you decide.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Ditto on what Mara said! I love the second one... Very good looking, but I like the frst one too... They are all so beautiful! The setting is gorgeus! It looks very shiny and 'liquid'
! I don't think the E VS 1 is worth the extra $$$$, as the difference won't be noticeable to the naked eye. What can I say... Your fiancee is a lucky girl
!

Giangi
 

futures

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
16
Presuming all things identical, I would go with the numbers and get the 2nd stone, the middle stone. You would have the satisfaction of knowing you didn't go for the cheapest, and at the same time not over extend yourself. I'm glad you had several months of research on your side. I only had less than a week of research.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144
Hi, Rook:

I'd pick the stones in this order:

1st choice - #3, the E stone
2nd choice - #1, the 1.04 F stone
3rd choice - #2, the 1.14 F stone

I'd choose the E stone first not because it's an E but because the fire and scintillation are exceptional for a pear stone. The diamond will be seen in most cases with the naked eye, and the thing that most catches the naked eye is the light return of a diamond.

I totally agree with Mara that saving $500-$1,000 is not worth it IF you think you may end up looking back/regretting later. You need to try to choose today what you think you'll still be happiest with 10 or 20 years from now.

Having said that, if choosing the E stone means you'll have to step down on the setting, I'd say DON'T DO IT. You'll regret settling on the setting more than settling on the stone because the setting is what makes a ring distinctive AND because the diamonds you're considering are all of good quality, so it's not like you're compromising for a dead-quality diamond just to get the setting.

Between the F 1.04 and the F 1.14, I'd TOTALLY go with the 1.04. I must be missing something that everyone else recommending the F 1.14 sees. I opened two browsers side by side and looked at both the picture and the animation.
In the photographs, the 1.04 pear looked much brighter in the center than the 1.14...the 1.14 seemed to have dark areas in the middle. Also, with the animation side-by-side, I thought the 1.04 sparkled much more than the 1.14......and the brilliance scope supports that finding. Most pears don't score well on white light return (brilliance), but there is a difference in the fire & scintillation of these two diamonds. The 1.04 scored on the border of Very High in Fire and the high end of High in Scintillation.....the 1.14 only hit the mid-range of High for Fire and was borderline Medium/High for Scintillation.

Tough choice, but if you can't comfortably stretch the budget to go with the E in the setting you chose, I'd stick with your setting and get the 1st diamond, the F 1.04.

Good luck.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I think these stones are a perfect example of the whole brilliance vs fire vs scintillation preferences....white light and brilliance will make a stone look lighter and brighter...the fire is more of the colored lights you see within the stone, and the dark areas that ALJ mentions are scintillation, which some people find more attractive than brilliance. My stone is very brilliant, with alot of white light return, less on the fire, slightly less on scint. So it sparkles pretty whitely, with flashes of color in certain lighting situations, but there are not really any dark areas in the stone (with the except of sometimes seeing a darker table in certain lights) that give it that scintillation. Personally I like it, maybe wish it had a TAD bit more fire but I love the fact that it acts differently depending on the lighting situation.

Some people NEED the fire, they want to see those intense rainbows in their ring. Out of the 3 pears, the 2nd one has the more colored light return aka fire to me and the bar brilliancescope agrees. The brilliance/white light return is better on the 1.04 stone...its more white fire than colored. The differences to my eyes were *very slight*...the 3rd stone was *definitely* the best.

Anyhow...maybe this will help clear up the responses as well...as the reason I liked the 2nd one was because it looked cooler with more fire inside. But if you like the white light return and want an icy sparkler with less color inside, the 1.04 will probably be your stone. 3rd stone is just fiery all over the place, but again there's the extra $$.

Again have to say that the STONES themselves looked amazing, both of them in the pictures that are on the site...only the first 2 have pictures of the actual stone not magnified. Super sparkly. Was surprised to see the IdealScope image not show spectacular light return as the light catching off both stones in the regular pix was very bright!
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

----------------
On 2/6/2003 3:42:47 PM Mara wrote:

Out of the 3 pears, the 2nd one has the more colored light return aka fire to me and the bar brilliancescope agrees. The brilliance/white light return is better on the 1.04 stone...its more white fire than colored. ----------------

Hi, Mara: Help me out.....because I don't see where you're getting this.

I just looked at the B-scope for the both the first and second stones again.
According to the B-scopes I'm looking at, the 1.04 stone rates higher in light return in all three categories than the 1.14 F---the B/scop shows it has more white light return, more colored light return, and more scintillation than the 1.14 F. How does the second stone have more colored light return if the 1st stone shows High/Very High colored light return and the 2nd stone only shows High colored light return?

What am I missing? Thanks!

 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
You're not missing anything, apparently I was on crack when I posted about the bscope results, that is what I get for having 3 browsers open looking at all 3 stones at once and switching back and forth while composing my post!
You are correct the first stone rates higher slightly than the 2nd stone. Don't know where I got the idea that the color bar was higher but I could have SWORN it was. Hmmm.

I still like the 2nd stone better from its Bscope animation...more fire inside seemingly.
But I guess..if the 1st stone is cheaper, and the 2nd has lower levels on the bscope, it may make more monetary sense to get the 1st stone? Sorry to confuse!!!! (I still like the 2nd better! :razz:)
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
First of all I want to say thank you to everyone. I could not have gotten better comments and help on this if I paid for it. These comments and observations are just what I was looking for, and this is why Pricescope and all of its user are so invaluable.

Now a comment on what some of my concerns are.

In regards to the 1.04ct, the Sarin and GIA numbers are perfect. It would score a 1A on the AGA class charts. Also it seems from the b-scope and lightscope to have very good balanced light return for a pear. The price is ideal. The one draw back to it is the overall shape. It has a 1.70:1 l/w ratio, and if you compare all three side by side, this is very evident. It is difficult to tell without actual visual inspection, but it raises a doubt.

In regards to the 1.14 F/VS2, this again is a very well cut pear, but not quite the caliber of the 1.04 and the 1.14 E/VS1. The crown and girdle are slightly thicker with a resulting overall depth that is slightly thicker. As I can tell this diamond would fall into a AGA class 2A. Which is not dispositive but this makes me concerned as to how pronounced of a bowtie it has. I agree with Mara thought that that picture sure is fantastic and appears to have an unexplainable charm to it. Also, even thought it has a l/w ratio of 1.66:1, it seems more pleasing than the 1.04ct.

The 1.14 E/VS1, what can I say. This seems perfect cut wise and shape wise. This also would score an AGA 1A. The overall shape and 1.60:1 l/w ratio is very pleasing. As you all pointed out the fire and brilliance are excellent for a pear. But there is that price issue, which is the hurdle I need to get over. The fact it is an E or a VS1 are inconsequential to me. An F/SI1 is just as good, as long as it is really eye clean and white.

So, that leaves me with the question I asked all of you, which you have all given me an unexpected degree of honesty and help, and I thank you for that.

If the 1.04ct were shaped as the 1.14ct E/VS1, or the 1.14ct E/VS1 was a F/VS2 or SI1 thus a lower price then I would be absolutely perfect in all regards. One would tend to suggest the 1.14 F/VS2 then, but the bowtie and potential less quality cut and light return make me desire the other two more. I THINK.

Regarding the setting, I just love that setting. It is absolutely what I am looking for. The fact that it comes from Mark just makes it that much better. I know it will be the best of quality and without a doubt wonderful. Of course Mark’s talents come at a price. I would hate to compensate this wonderful ring for one that may be great, but not the one I REALLY wanted.

I appreciate all of your comments. They were all very helpful and thoughtful. If any of you have time to reply to my concerns I would be grateful to say the least.

Very Truly Yours

Rook
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003

Here are my comments from what you said.

--I still like the 2nd stone out of the first and second, you are right, it does have some sort of charm to it. Plus I like the picture of it better than the first one. It just looks like it has more colors in it and I STILL think the Bscope animation looks better than the first stone, though I could not say why after copping to my error in the bar results.

--If you can justify in your mind the price jump to the most expensive stone, then I would suggest getting it. Thinking 'if it was a F VS2 it'd be cheaper' is not going to change the price of the stone...reality is that this is probably the stone you want but that the price is holding you back. What does Rhino think? You said he had a preference? Will he give you a little more of a discount on that more expensive stone if you approach him? I know he's in business to make money but I also get the vibe that he wants the customer to have the best stone possible as well, so maybe he'd shave off a little bit of money if you really push for that stone? If that is not an option and you decide that this stone is out of your league....then...

--What are your preferences between the first and second stone? What are Rhino's? If the third stone was completely out of the running, what would be the final decision between the first two? Those may be your two final contenders.

So, I think you need to start narrowing it down. It's hard to compare three apples to each other, but 2 is easier. So, if the price of the 3rd most ideal stone is out of your league and it cannot be modified at all, then nix it *OR* decide you will pay a little extra and amortize the cost over the next 20 years (suddenly a few extra bucks doesnt seem so much when you think of it that way, eh?). Are you always going to be bothered that you did not get the stone you really wanted, even if the setting is the one you wanted? Think about it. But if you can't justify the cost in your head, the third stone is OUT. Then you need to narrow it down between the top 2. Look at the price per carat for these 2 very similar stones. If the first one is much cheaper ppc and it has the 1A cut, well...that might be the deciding factor for you. Or is the fact that the 2nd stone speaks to you more important than that jump in cut grade?

We can help you by analzying the data you give us, the pictures, the reports. But in the end...the decision needs to come from you. I was a little concerned when we bought our stone, it was an AGS 7 which is almost as far from AGS 0 as you can get. I found that out after I bought it...didn't know enough then to figure it out before. Then I thought, oh well, done deal. Too late now. Then I reconciled myself to having a 'different' but still pretty stone. However now that I have it, I LOVE IT. It's my stone, even if its imperfect by 'ideal' standards, and you know what, it looks DARN good, better than most anyone's I know! It shocks me sometimes that this would not be considered a higher make of a stone than a 7! I would love to see an 'ideal' stone up close for comparison. So yay for AGS 7! My point is to not let the 2a rating get to you..if you like the look of the stone. Don't stress out over the #'s too much. I did this..many of us do...and in the end..its just about how that stone looks to your eyes. And the setting is important too
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

Hi, Rook: First off, TOTALLY agree with Mara....the ultimate decision HAS to come from you. There is no right or wrong answer; they are all beautiful stones and it really does come down to preference.....YOUR preference.

Having said that, here's what I hear in your words:

----------------
On 2/6/2003 8:24
2 PM Rook wrote:
Regarding the setting, I just love that setting; It is absolutely what I am looking for....I would hate to compensate this wonderful ring for one that may be great, but not the one I REALLY wanted. Get this setting, then....do not settle for anything else because you won't be happy.

In regards to the 1.04ct, ...The one draw back to it is the overall shape. It has a 1.70:1 l/w ratio, and if you compare all three side by side, this is very evident. Yes, but you need to remember that you won't be viewing the stone side-by-side comparing to others. While this may appear very evident next to two other stones, I don't think it will be at all noticeable when it's mounted and showcased by itself.

In regards to the 1.14 F/VS2, this again is a very well cut pear, but not quite the caliber of the 1.04 and the 1.14 E/VS1.&nbsp.....(it) makes me concerned as to how pronounced of a bowtie it has.....it has a l/w ratio of 1.66:1. I agree about the bowtie; I noted that it looked dark in the center previously, and I still see it. I looked at both F stones extensively again side-by-side in browsers, and I still see more fire and scintillation in the 1.04, and the b/scope results support what I'm seeing. Regarding the l/w ratio, the difference between the 1.04 (1.70:1) and the 1.14 (166:1) is a difference of only 4/100ths....do you really think that is going to be discernable to the naked eye when the diamond is mounted by itself? I don't. I think that the 1.04 completely outperforms the 1.14 diamond in light return and cut quality for less money, and if the choice was between these two F stones, I'd choose the 1.04 stone all day long!

The 1.14 E/VS1, what can I say. This seems perfect cut wise and shape wise. This also would score an AGA 1A. The overall shape and 1.60:1 l/w ratio is very pleasing. As you all pointed out the fire and brilliance are excellent for a pear.

If the 1.04ct were shaped as the 1.14ct E/VS1, or the 1.14ct E/VS1 was a F/VS2 or SI1 thus a lower price then I would be absolutely perfect in all regards. One would tend to suggest the 1.14 F/VS2 then, but the bowtie and potential less quality cut and light return make me desire the other two more. I THINK.

I think these two paragraphs really tell you what you should do. Look at what you've said about the E stone....it's perfect in terms of cut, in terms of shape, in terms of scoring quality, ratio, and light return. You like everything about this stone's characteristics. When you talk of the two F stones, you say "if only this one were X, if only that one were Y, ....." But they aren't X or Y, and each lacks something in your eyes. $5,000 to $6,000 grand is a LOT of money to spend for something that you'll look at and be ultimately dissatisfied with.

----------------

I think you should take the E stone...not because it's an E, not because it's a VS, but because it has all the qualities that you are looking for. Yeah, I know you'd be happy with an F/SI, but you haven't found one that speaks to you the way the E stone does.

The difference between the 1.04 and the E stone is $1,927....that's a lot of money. Here's a little perspective though: Almost every time I get something that isn't what I REALLY wanted in the name of saving money....I usually end up spending more money because I'm not happy with what I "settled for" and eventually get the thing I really wanted to begin with. I'd rather spend a little more up front... but spend wisely knowing that it's what I want and only spending ONCE.

If you cannot reconcile spending the money on the E stone....then I'd tell you not to choose any of them. Instead, keep looking until you find an F/SI stone that performs the way this E does on cut, light, etc.

Good luck.
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
Mara & ALJ,

Thank you again. Your comments were very insightful and helpful. You have both given me great advise and helped me realize exactly where my thoughts are.

I do like the 1.14 E. It appears to be exactly what I am looking for, except the price. I don't think Rhino would negotiate on price, and I don't blame him. He does need to make a living and he has spent a great deal of time with me so far. All three of these stones were brought in and specially inspected for me by request. I have been discussing them with him for weeks. He has been absolutely wonderful through the process, and I have total confidence that he would not stear me wrong.

That being said, I will have to look at the diamonds a little more, and possibly have Rhino send them to me to see for myself.

I will try to keep you all informed.

Thank you all again.
 

ociopia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
95
My thoughts are these:

As to the setting, if the cost impinges on your diamond choice then perhaps consider a reasonable, simple setting with the sweet tidbit that "for our first anniversary - the setting of your choice" or some such thing.

As to the choice of the three diamonds: in the end, after 17 million angles and tables and depths and h&a's - how the diamond looks to the eye is the absolute most important thing.

You could just ask Jonathan "which of these 3 diamonds is the most brilliant and eye-popping in all light conditions"

or

You could get each of them sent to you (in conjunction if your credit card can take it so you could compare them together) or solely if that must be the way and make the final decision based on your own evaluation.

Why not? You've done all this research and narrowed it down to 3 stones - look at all 3 and decide!
 
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