*FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today!)*

[danny_italia]

Alright so I've made a bunch of posts comparing some stones I've found and I'm down to the Final 3. PROMISE!

I'll be placing the order around 4-5 today as I'll need the diamond shipped out asap. I'm from Canada and will be heading down to the states to pick it up on Thursday (This gives me just enough time with the long weekend coming up).

Any input you can provide me will be extremely helpful. I'll also be having a phone consultation with a GG and I'm hoping they will have all 3 for comparison. (I know they will definitely have Diamond #1 for the phone consultation and they're working on getting the other 2 there).

If there's any questions you think I should ask just let me know. I'm reaching out to you guys since you're the experts!

Here they are:

Diamond #1 : 1516567 ($5360)
Carat Weight: 1.01
Cut: Excellent
Color: I
Clarity: VS2

Depth: 61.9%
Table: 56.0%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion Angle: 40.6

HCA Score: 0.9 (TIC)
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1516567.asp


*************************************************
Diamond #2 : 1516564 ($5080)
Carat Weight: 1.01
Cut: Excellent
Color: I
Clarity: VS2

Depth: 62.5%
Table: 56.0%
Crown Angle: 36.0
Pavilion Angle: 40.6

HCA Score: 1.8 (FIC)
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Very Good
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1516564.asp


*************************************************
Diamond #3 : 1509707 ($5300)
Carat Weight: 1.00
Cut: Very Good
Color: I
Clarity: VS2

Depth: 59.9%
Table: 56.0%
Crown Angle: 32.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8

HCA Score: 0.7 (TIC)
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Excellent
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Very-Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1509707.asp

 

[Enerchi]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

My preference would be #3. I prefer that ASET and it has a great HCA score (as they all do...) Looks like all 3 are amazing, so if you don't have a feel one way or the other, I'd personally be inclined to rely on what the GG says to you on the phone.

Be CERTAIN that the eye clean is what you want for eye clean - list your distance & if you want it eye clean on the profile/sides as well.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

MY COMMENTS:

#1. For someone reason I keep leaning towards this diamond. It has an Excellent HCA score - scoring "excellent" in everything but spread (which was still "very good"), Triple Excellent Diamond and the Inclusions are extremely minor.

My Concerns with stone Diamond #1 (which I'm hoping someone will give input on) is the IS image. The arrows at the 11 and 5 o'clock seem to be someone invisible and the 5 o'clock seem to be off (if you look at the scope image on the site though it actually appears though that the head is actually just white and not missing).

I'm curious why so many issues with the arrow heads yet it still has an ecxellent cut and excellent symmetry??
----

#2. Alot of people have been recommending this diamond. It's also definitely my top 2.

My Concerns with this diamond is it's decent HCA score, it's slightly deeper cut (very minimal) and it's IS image not being as RED as diamond 1. Alsom I'm not sure if the "knot" inclusion at the bottom should be of any concern to the actual durability of the diamond.
----

#3. Although it has an excellent numbers, Rating Excellent in everything, the IS image looking quite good. It does have a tiny inclusion near the table that I'm not so sure. I've left it as my #3 just incase someone could convince me other wise.


Waiting for your feedback and comments!

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

My preference would be #3. I prefer that ASET and it has a great HCA score (as they all do...) Looks like all 3 are amazing, so if you don't have a feel one way or the other, I'd personally be inclined to rely on what the GG says to you on the phone.

Be CERTAIN that the eye clean is what you want for eye clean - list your distance & if you want it eye clean on the profile/sides as well.

By ASET, do you mean the IS image. Sorry I'm not familiar with the term!

Yes I'm really hoping the GG will be able to have all 3 infront of him/her to get their feedback.


PS. I've also added the prices if that means anything to anyone. They are all within $300 of eachother so the difference isn't much.

 

[GirlyGirl]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I like #2.

 

[madelise]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Isn't #2 the same one everyone kept saying to get in all your other threads? If the price is all around the same, get #2 and forget about your worries about the arrow or the inclusion. Lol

EDIT-- wait, #3's inclusion is graded a VS2! Don't worry about that inclusion at all

 

[Laila619]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I like # 1 or # 3. Stone # 2 is just cut a little deep at 62.5% which affects the face up size (it's the smallest of the three, mm wise). I'd rather have a less deep stone. All of the IS images are good though!

 

[Enerchi]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

My preference would be #3. I prefer that ASET and it has a great HCA score (as they all do...) Looks like all 3 are amazing, so if you don't have a feel one way or the other, I'd personally be inclined to rely on what the GG says to you on the phone.

Be CERTAIN that the eye clean is what you want for eye clean - list your distance & if you want it eye clean on the profile/sides as well.

By ASET, do you mean the IS image. Sorry I'm not familiar with the term!

Yes I'm really hoping the GG will be able to have all 3 infront of him/her to get their feedback.


PS. I've also added the prices if that means anything to anyone. They are all within $300 of eachother so the difference isn't much.

yes!!! Oooops, my error. I apologize... the IS image is lovely!

(geesh, Enerchi! )

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I think it will likely come down to whichever the GG likes more... but keep the comments coming!

I really wish someone could explain though what's going on with the arrows in #1.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Flip a coin, you won't be able to tell onw from the others in person. Choose the least expensive or choose the one with the biggest face up size. Or choose the one with the lab report number that seems most auspicious.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Or choose the one with the lab report number that seems most auspicious.

hahaha +1

I like your style!

Someone with JA confirmed the GG will have all 3 diamonds so that's perfect. Since the difference are so minute - I'm assuming I'll go with whichever she recommends - eye clean is definitely a must though so I'll have her look at it from quite close to confirm all 3.

 

[mandasand]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Or choose the one with the lab report number that seems most auspicious.

hahaha +1

I like your style!

Someone with JA confirmed the GG will have all 3 diamonds so that's perfect. Since the difference are so minute - I'm assuming I'll go with whichever she recommends - eye clean is definitely a must though so I'll have her look at it from quite close to confirm all 3.

Yeah, I would see what the gemologist says and then buy the one they recommend.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

#1 is the best of the three, in my opinion. #2 is too deep and #3 has a crown angle that is too shallow. Those sometimes can be more prone to chipping. This would be an easy choice to me.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

#1 is the best of the three, in my opinion. #2 is too deep and #3 has a crown angle that is too shallow. Those sometimes can be more prone to chipping. This would be an easy choice to me.

Any comments about the 2 arrows on the first diamond that seem a bit off. That's my first time seeing an IS image with skewed arrow heads - especially on an excellent cut / excellent symmetry diamond. Just wondering if it could be explained in any way.

 

[0-0-0]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Regarding the incomplete arrows in #1, I think it suggests that the stone is not as precisely cut as others. I don't think it's a photography issue as the incomplete arrows are visible in both regular and IS images in the same locations.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Regarding the incomplete arrows in #1, I think it suggests that the stone is not as precisely cut as others. I don't think it's a photography issue as the incomplete arrows are visible in both regular and IS images in the same locations.

In the regular photo - If you look at the "imcomplete arrow" at around the ~9 o'clock mark. it does appear to be there... It just seems like the arrow head is white instead of coloured like the rest... that's why I was wondering if it could have been just the photograph. But then the same thing appears in the IS image which has me wondering.

How could something that notieable be still considered excellent symmetry.. You'd assume it would lose 'points' somewhere?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I don't think you will see that in person. Minor things like that are not usually able to be seen. You want to avoid leakage and the stone has XXX, so it should be fine. But by all means, ask the gemologist. It is just that the other two have issues that cross the line of my personal limits.

 

[E B]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I would choose #1.

 

[0-0-0]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

How could something that notieable be still considered excellent symmetry.. You'd assume it would lose 'points' somewhere?

GIA grades physical facet meet point symmetry. Images show optical symmetry. They have some degree of correlation but they are not the same.

As diamondseeker2006 suggests, the difference may not be something you find noticeable in person. I find the difference visible in person. But at the end of the day you have to figure out your own tolerances and preferences.

 

[GirlyGirl]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Flip a coin, you won't be able to tell onw from the others in person. Choose the least expensive or choose the one with the biggest face up size. Or choose the one with the lab report number that seems most auspicious.

Although I stated that I like IS #2 the most, as a layperson, I doubt I'd see a difference in these stones in person. I bet they are all beautiful. You won't go wrong with any pick of the three.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

UPDATE

So I spoke with the Gemologist and I have to say it was a great conversation where I learned alot! I am now however split between 2 diamonds.

We went ahead and Removed Diamond #2 from the options as she clearly stated that it's performance was not as great as the other 2.

The GG preffered Diamond #3 but did say it was like splitting hairs but it did have a slightly better performance and symmetry (which you can see from the HCA grade).

Diamond #3:
PROs
- She stated the diamond had Excellent performance (HCA score of 0.7) and slightly better then Diamond #1 (but still somewhat noticeable)
- It also had slightly better symmetry (which was also somewhat noticeable compared to Diamond #1)
- larger spread (6.53 vs 6.43)

CONs
- Smaller Crown Angle (32.5)
- An inclusion visible in the Virtual Loupe image and IS image (Although she said not visible from the top - I'm a bit worried since it is pretty noticeable from the Virtual Loupe)
- She stated the Inclusion was not visible from the top but somewhat noticeable from the Pavillion (she said won't be seen once set)
- "Very Good" Cut vs Diamond #1 Excellent Cut
- no laser inscription of the GIA certificate (not a big deal)
- thinner girdle (nothing to really worry about)


Diamond #1:
PROs
- Triple Excellent Cut (Cut, Symmetry and Polish)
- Inclusions not visible (extremely small feather (3oclock on the GIA certificate) which is not visible and could even be covered by a prong)
- She stated the diamond had Excellent light performance (HCA score of 0.9) but slightly less then Diamond #3
- Laser inscripted certificate # on girdle
- Great Angles


CONs
- She said the Symmetry was slightly off causing a bit less Contrast and explains why 2 arrows were a bit 'invisible' (seen in Loup and IS image)
- smaller spread (HCA rating of "Very Good") (6.43 vs 6.53)



My Final thoughts:

- With Diamond #1 I'm quite certain the diamond will be eye clean and it's a Triple Excellent Diamond, only concern is the issue with the symmetry and contrast.

- With Diamond #3 the GG said the performance and symmetry was slightly better, only concerns are the table inclusion, the "Very Good" and not "Excellent" cut grade and the fact that is has a somewhat smaller Crown Angle.



Additional thoughts are welcomed.

 

[Enerchi]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

You took very thorough notes! Good job!

I think you are down to splitting hairs now - both seem to be fantastic choices. $$ wise, no difference. Spread wise - about a sheet of paper (so I'm gonna say - no difference in my mind, with an edge to #3). Symmetry - sounds like # 3 wins. colour and clarity are a draw.

If it were me purchasing, I'd still stick with #3 as my vote --- but either way, you'll end up with a beautiful stone, there is no bad choice so don't stress about "oh I shoulda...."

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

You took very thorough notes! Good job!

I think you are down to splitting hairs now - both seem to be fantastic choices. $$ wise, no difference. Spread wise - about a sheet of paper (so I'm gonna say - no difference in my mind, with an edge to #3). Symmetry - sounds like # 3 wins. colour and clarity are a draw.

If it were me purchasing, I'd still stick with #3 as my vote --- but either way, you'll end up with a beautiful stone, there is no bad choice so don't stress about "oh I shoulda...."

Thanks alot!

I dunno, for some reason I'm just leaning towards number 1... more so, so I/m confident in saying it's a triple excellent Diamond (as bad as that sounds) lol

Also, the inclusions are barely noticeable with the scope for number 1... so I know for sure it will be eye clean as opposed to #3 which I'm worried my keen eye and pickyness will spot. lol


Are you guys pretty confident that I won't see the inclusion that's visible in the loupe... Also what are your thought on the #3 Crown Angle?

 

[Laila619]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Just go with # 1 IMO. With # 3, which has a shallow crown, you risk chipping and you sacrifice a bit of fire. # 1 will show lots of fire.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Just go with # 1 IMO. With # 3, which has a shallow crown, you risk chipping and you sacrifice a bit of fire. # 1 will show lots of fire.

That's what I like to hear ... I think scaled down to it's actual size, The slight difference in symmetry that I'm worried about won't be noticeable... Or at least I'm hoping.

Plus it's not a deal breaker - but the added confidence of having it laser inscribed is nice for when I go and have it set here.

And your right - it does have a more ideal crown angle and girdle size.

 

[Laila619]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Just go with # 1 IMO. With # 3, which has a shallow crown, you risk chipping and you sacrifice a bit of fire. # 1 will show lots of fire.

That's what I like to hear ... I think scaled down to it's actual size, The slight difference in symmetry that I'm worried about won't be noticeable... Or at least I'm hoping.

Plus it's not a deal breaker - but the added confidence of having it laser inscribed is nice for when I go and have it set here.

And your right - it does have a more ideal crown angle and girdle size.

I once bought an AGS triple 0 stone that had some wonky looking arrows in the magnified image, and I was a bit worried. In person, it was quite beautiful. You gotta remember you really don't see the arrows in person...all you see is sparkle and scintillation. Even when you do see arrows, they are more silvery in color.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

Also, you never know what the future holds and if you ever did need to sell the diamond you would get a better return on GIA Ex. Diamonds are not an investment, but for me its still important to know I could recoup more for #1 than for #3 if it came down to it.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

My only other concern would be the lack of contrast she mentioned on 2 of the arrows on Diamond #1. Any thoughts?

 

[danny_italia]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I once bought an AGS triple 0 stone that had some wonky looking arrows in the magnified image, and I was a bit worried. In person, it was quite beautiful. You gotta remember you really don't see the arrows in person...all you see is sparkle and scintillation. Even when you do see arrows, they are more silvery in color.

That's very reassuring... thanks!

 

[0-0-0]

Re: *FINAL DECISION: Help me choose my Diamond (by 4pm Today

I think Laila619 and Dreamer_D brought up very good points.

Re: lack of contrast / incomplete arrows, in my experience the facets in those areas tend to look less crisp, and the on/off scintillation tends to suffer a bit in person.