Fancy Brownish Pink Diamond

[maxspinel]

I saw a cute pink diamond in a show. It is a 1.0 ct heart shape with the pink clearly showing. When I asked for the GIA certificate, I was surprised to see that it was graded to be Fancy Brownish pink. Under the show lighting, I did not see the hint of brown. The asking price is $25,000 but I am not sure if the brownish pink is actually worth the money. Besides the GIA, somehow it also has the IGI. The GIA is only a color report but the IGI has more data. I am familiar with GIA but know nothing about the IGI.

The rest of the specification is as follows:
Weight: 1.02 Carat
Measurements: 6.34 – 5.86 x 4.36 mm
Clarify: VS2
Color Grade: Natural Fancy Brownish Pink
Fluorescence: Very Slight
Polish and Symmetry: Good
Proportions: Good
Table Diameter: 64.5%
Girdle: SL. Thick to V. Thick
Crown Height: 13%
Pavilion depth: 47%
Cutlet Size: Medium

Also, I looked at the stone using a loupe. The stone is relatively clean as it should be for a VS2. However, the cutlet is clearly off-centered, skewed to the left side and the top. As I mentioned, under the show lighting, it is sparkling but looking at the dimensions, I have no idea how it’ll play out in more normal lighting.

Need some advice on this stone. I love the pink but do not want to ditch out tons of money. This seems at least more affordable but I am concerned on the brownish pink rating and the stone dimensions/proportions.

 

[kroshka]

Hi maxspinel,

I would not put much trust in an IGI report (they usually are not consistent, and in regards to fancy colors, GIA is the most reputable lab), but since you do have the GIA color report - it''s nice to have the other specs. When it comes to fancy color diamonds, color is the most important and thus having a GIA report is important to support what color grade the diamond really is and that it is indeed a natural fancy colored diamond. Because color is the most important, clarity and cut quality are secondary factors.

If you have done some research you probably already know that a GIA "fancy pink" is more expensive than a GIA "fancy brownish pink". That being said, there are many beautiful pink diamonds out there that have the "brownish" modifier and make the diamond more affordable because of that.

I say if you like it, go for it, I don''t think the price is bad from what I''ve seen. Afterall the stone is a carat - which is a very nice size for a pink! If the stone and color is beautiful, I would not let the brownish modifier deter you unless you are thinking of buying the stone to resell or something. It''s hard to put a price on a fancy - especially pinks. It seems for now that yellows are more easy to appraise and price out. I say this from experience, since I have been looking for appraisers experienced in fancy colored diamonds, and many of the good appraisers out there are telling me that they won''t appraise a pink diamond even if it has a GIA report because they are not experienced enough or it is too much of a liability to be able to put a proper value on the appraisal.

 

[kroshka]

Forgot to also say that if the stone really is a VS2 (sometimes IGI reports are off pretty bad for clarity grades), then that''s great since a lot of pink diamonds out there are not really eye clean.

Since you saw it at a diamond show, make sure you know what the return policy is just in case. You might also want to think about taking the stone to an appraiser to make sure the stone matches the reports that come with it. Hopefully you have a competent one in your area that will do a fancy color appraisal.

 

[Opallover]

Maxspinnel

I found some nice pink diamonds on the site that I frequent. They''re small but seem to be excellent quality.

Linda

 

[valeria101]

''Brownish-pink'' that looks pink in person sounds like desirable merchandise to me. I am sure the seller was happy to get one in stock, and as far as I can tell, many others would have liked the opportunity. Given the HUGE price difference made by the ''brownish'' word on the cert, surely allot of folk who want fancy diamonds in ''wearable'' size and palatable price would find it a good buy too. Unless the cut really is allot worse than most heart shapes in any color.

Is it too expensive...dunno, good question. It does sound a bit much. Because... #1. I wonder if incandescent light or daylight would not reveal a tell-take mellow peach color rather than pink, also I wonder how strong the color is overall and third... 20 sounds better than 25. The Net has a way of producing useful references, some time - THIS is what was open in a browser window next to Pricescope when I read your post!

My 2c

The presence of the IGI cert doesn''t surprise me much: it may have something to do with the diamond having a clear overtone (the ''brownish'') and the seller who had the IGI paper done believing the stone may have returned with an undesirable ''name'' from GIA (say, ''pinkish brown''). Or the same folk''s hope for an ''orange-pink'' from IGI... some of those are quite brown to my unprofessional eye.

Most fancy color diamonds I see are HRD or IGI graded, not GIA - in Europe..., especially if not quite world class prices.

 

[maxspinel]

I saw another fancy brownish pink diamond in the show. An eye popper of 5.18 ct, pear shaped, VVS2 with GIA certification. I didn''t dare to handle it with the loupe and don’t remember the pertinent data except the pear is elongated, not ideal. Under the show lighting, it is a nice shape of pink and I can’t detect any hint of brown but I am not sure how it’ll look in natural lights. The dealer told me that it is on consignment from a customer who has owned it for over 20 years. They are only asking for a little missy price of $150,000 with some room to maneuver. I actually thought that it was not outrageously priced. Is $150,000 a reasonable price for this diamond?

 

[diagem]

Yes you are right, in Fancy Color Diamonds, IGI is very popular in the European Continent, as is Gubelin.

Please understand that all Pinks are part of the Brown Color family...

A straigh fancy Pink Diamond would be appr. double the $$$ from a brownish-Pink.

 

[maxspinel]

On the original 1.02 heart shaped brownish pink diamond that I am interested in, I noted that there are very slight flourescence. How does this impact the color when viewed under day light? The cert does not note the flourescent color but assuming that it is blue, will it then make the stone look less pink or even bluish pink? Just wondering

and trying to understand how flourescence will impact the color.

 

[diagem]

Usually faint or slight Flo. on fancy colour are fine..., you can have it checked before you purchase the diamond...

 

[kroshka]

I too had the same question about fluorescence on a pink diamond. I''ve read that in some instances blue fluorescence can help the face up color of a pink, but I can''t say this is something that is confirmed or factual. Some experts suggest that it really needs to be evaluated on a stone by stone basis. I say go with your own eyes as well though - try to see the stone in different lighting environments to see if there is anything that really detracts from it.

 

[maxspinel]

I talked to the dealer on the phone today requesting information on the shipment method and return policy of the 1.0 ct heart shape fancy brownish pink diamond. The guy told me that they can either accept money order/personal check or via Paypal. They can’t accept direct credit card payment since they are primarily wholesalers. I have 15 days to inspect the item and can return it with a full refund less the shipping cost. He said if I pay using money order/certified check, then he can deduct 3% from the price.

The problem about Paypal is if I decide to return the item, even though the dealer would refund the entire amount, Paypal will deduct 3% when I retrieve the money into my checking account. However, if I choose to send a personal check/money order, then I don’t really have any protection; the dealer might not send me back any refund.

I need some advice on which payment method is a better way to go.

 

[kroshka]

maxspinel,

Hmm you said the dealer accepts paypal but not regular credit cards? Seems strange cause for them to receive the $ they would lose 2-3% right, just as you would if you received a refund from them - right?

Unfortunately this is something that may be with some dealers - I think most transactions are done by wire transfer and usually there is some kind of discount associated for doing a wire. Is there some way the dealer would accept payment through www.escrow.com? That way you would be protected in the event you want to return the item - but the dealer would need to agree to have the funds in the escrow account until you make a decision to keep or not or the refund period expires.

Is the dealer reputable - have you found any info about them on the internet? Also, were you able to negotiate the price down a bit? After more thinking, I think a figure more along the lines with what Ana posted earlier sounds more reasonable since it does have the brownish modifier.

 

[maxspinel]

I did try to negotiate the price down. I am not sure about the reputation of this dealer and that is why I am concerned of just sending them a personal check even though they promised to hold it.

They don''t accept the escrow account but will through Paypal. If that is the case, Paypal might be the way to go but I am not sure if there is fraud protection in Paypal in case of dispute. I don''t know how their policy works; do they protect the seller or the buyer? Can I still stop the credit card payment if there is a problem?

After the dealer cash out the money from Paypal, if a disputes arises and the vendor refuse to refund the money, I am not sure if Paypal can refund the credit back to the buyer just like a regular credit card account. I am hoping that some one can help me with the Paypal refund/dispute procedure.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/28/2006 8:44:13 PM
Author: maxspinel

I did try to negotiate the price down.

Considering the prices listed by Ishay, I would....

 

[kroshka]

Were you able to get the price down? In regards to PayPal, I don't know all the ins and outs, but from what I've read, if the seller cashes the $ out, you might have to do a lot of fighting to get the charge reversed. And, because the amount is very large, I think it would be even more difficult. But, the best thing to do, is to call PayPal up directly and inquire about this specific situation that you are in. Ask about what recourse you have if you need to return the diamond and what if the seller doesn't refund you.

Sorry I am not more help with this. Is it possible to ask the dealer for some references? Can you share the name and location of the dealer - perhaps someone on Pscope who has dealt with them will be able to help out.

If the dealer is located outside of the US, I would be very weary of sending them the $. I dealt with a company in Israel one time that turned out very bad, I was lucky to get my $ back. Ever since then, I figured it was not a good idea to deal with any company outside of the US that does not have a US division or office I should say.

If you decide to go through with this, also make sure that you get all the terms of the sale in writing. That's important for proof of what was to happen should you decide you want to return the diamond.

 

[maxspinel]

Kroshka, Ana,
I think you guys are right. I''ve been looking at the Ishay Ben_David site (www.fancycolordiamond.net) site that Ana posted and also some other internet sites. The prices are more reasonable than the dealer.

There is a diamond that I am interestedto purchase in the site Fancy-diam.com. I looked at the contact and they are from Herskovits & Polnauer Ltd from Israel. However, their US office is Ishay Ben David. I called the US local office and talked to a really nice lady. She also said that either they can do paypal via the site but the stone will be shipped directly from Israel or I can send her a certified personal check with 3% discount and the stone will be shipped vis the US site. She won''t cash the check and will hold it until I am totally satisfied. If not, I can just return the diamond and she will destroy the check.

Does anyone have any experience dealing with Ishay Ben David. It seems that if they are reputable, it is not as risky just to give them a certified check and I get 3% discount. Also, it avoids the hassle of dealing with Israel via paypal.
Please let me know what is your opinion.

Thanks

 

[kenny]

If it went to the GIA why not just get a complete report from GIA?

I think because all the other specs would have been lower than what IGI would give.

This is such a good example of the sad state of our present lab-shuffling diamond-grading debacle.

Who''s a customer to believe?
How are we to judge value when the expert judges don''t even agree on standards?