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Faint brown diamond K on rose gold

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jpark922

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2018
Messages
11
Hello everyone,

I was hoping someone would give me some advice on buying an engagement ring. My significant other wants a rose gold ring so went on JamesAllen and found this diamond. It was $3620. I have done research and found that although the color of the diamond is a K, and it is faint brown, that diamonds of these colors will actually look great on a rose gold setting.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5538225

This is the rose gold setting that I am planning on putting the diamond with.
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-41232

I was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts, or opinions on how they thought it would look. On whether this is a good or bad deal. I am a newby so I am all ears. thanks!! =)2
 
Lovely stone!

I would want the head/prongs in RG too, in this case, though - embrace the “pink-ing” effect! Certainly no point in providing permanent proximal white metal details for colour comparison ::)
 
I love slight brown stones (see my most recent threads) and love this idea!!!

I have a few thoughts and want to make sure you've checked a few things.

1. Are you SURE your intended is ok with slight brown? Obviously I love it, and others do too, but it's not traditionally preferred. Some people dislike brown tones and feel as though diamonds "should" be white. Just want to be 100% that she will love it!

2. I'm wary of IGI certs, as they are much less precise than gia or AGS. I would only be considering stones with those certs if I were you.

3. What's your budget and preferred size? Happy to help you look!!

4. Have you looked at diamonds by Lauren? David has amazing slight brown stones and is a great vendor who I trust immensley.
 
@lovedogs brings up good points!

I assumed you and your partner like the stone colour and want to highlight it a bit. For that, the stone you chose - slightly deeper than commonly-recommended here on PS, cut to elongate light paths which will concentrate visible colour face-up - is an excellent choice. If my assumption was wrong, however, and you actually prefer a stone that looks as colourless as possible face-up, it's not such an excellent choice!

I will second the recommendation to contact David at DBL if you're still looking for stones - I've worked with him and he has a fantastic eye for colour.
 
This stone worries me!!! I'm not sure if I'm missing something because the others really like it, but the HCA is 5.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um!!!! This is not good! Really when buying off the internet you want the stone to be scoring less than 2. I think this stone is going to perform very poorly, and indeed looking at the video, I know it's brown, but the centre of that diamond goes very dark. Any chance they can give you an ASET for it? JA usually can when asked - but I'm not sure it's even worth asking for one (as you get three requests, and it might be better to use them on alternative options).

@lovedogs has some very useful tips about ensuring you're [I mean, your fiancé is] happy with the colour. I am also very dubious about IGI reports in general, I suspect it likely that if the stone were sent to another laboratory like GIA or AGS, the stone would come back a more tinted colour. Considering pricing is done at colour/clarity scales as well as carat size, you'll be paying more for that stone than it is necessarily worth.

In the future, for selling etc, people are also more reluctant to buy IGI stones vs GIA stones, for example.

Lots of red alarm bells ringing for me here.

Please can you tell us what your requirements are and perhaps we can find you another stone in your budget that is better performing.

Sorry to be a downer on this. :(
 
@Lykame I think a lot of it comes down to what OP is looking for. HCA is a fantastic tool but it does have significant limitations - first and foremost, it assumes that the user is aiming for "as colourless as possible face-up" - which may not be the case here. With RBs, especially, "poor cut" by PS norms is actually the best way to bring out body colour face-up... I agree that the stone is quite noticeably tinted!
 
Thank you for the replies!

She is okay with the light brown as long as it complements the rose gold color well. I have bought her rose gold jewelry in the past and she really likes how it complements her skin tone. However, we aren't necessarily hard pressed in looking for a light brown stone; if there is a better color / stone out there we are flexible about it.

I did not know to stay away from IGI.. thank you for the input :confused:

My budget is ~4500 for the setting + diamond. We are unsure of what size to get; really we are more concerned about staying within the budget.

I think bottom line in terms of preferences, really the only preference is as long as the diamond complements the rose gold setting well.

Therefore, I would gladly accept any recommendations! Thank you so much everyone!
 
I did not know about Diamonds by Lauren, I will take some time to browse through them as well.
 
yssie said:
@Lykame It comes down to what OP is looking for.

HCA is a fantastic tool but it does have significant limitations. First and foremost, it assumes that the user is aiming for "as colourless as possible face-up" - which may not be the case here.
Click to expand...

Hi @yssie. I'm confused, I didn't think that the HCA had anything to do with the word 'colourless'. I thought it was based on light performance. I have no care at all that the stone is brown, I think brown diamonds are awesome. I think brown diamonds - or D coloured diamonds - that behave poorly in light are rubbish and I would hate for the OP to spend hard earned money on a stone that behaved poorly in light. I have been admiring @lovedogs videos of her beautiful brown toned diamond a lot! It's stunning. It has an HCA of 1.3.

This stone has an HCA of 5.1, and that honestly raises alarm bells for me. I would at least wish to see an ASET. I know that HCA has limitations... but I'm not sure how the HCA is limiting me here. I cannot do what @sledge commonly does, and insert a picture of the AGSL proportion chart. As far as I can tell, this stone falls in the 'good' range, and is surrounded by six good boxes, one very good box and one excellent box. I know that not everyone wants a super ideal stone, but this really falls flat to me. @lovedogs stone falls in the 'ideal' range and is surrounded by eight ideal boxes. Her stone looks amazing.

That's all I'm saying. I'm just trying to make sure that the OP is aware of what they're getting, and that they get what they pay for, and I think that they can pay about the same for a much better cut stone. It doesn't have to be ideal - but at least somewhere vaguely closer than it appears to be???

Best wishes,
Lydia.
 
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@Lykame I think @yssie is referring to the fact that HCA makes assumptions about what the buyer is looking for. 1. It assumes that the buyer doesn't want a 60/60 stone (irrelevant here but a good thing to know overall), and 2. That the buyer wants a stone cut to maximize fire/scintilation, not color.

Colored diamonds (fancy light brown, etc, even ones that have "faint brown") are often cut to maximize the beauty of the color. Meaning they will score poorly on the HCA. I asked @Rockdiamond about this when I was looking at stones. Basically the question is whether the buyer is looking for the "perfect" color, or if cut parameters are most important.

Of course the best thing would be if buyers could see all cuts/colors in person to see what's *ideal* for them, but since most of us can't, we need to decide whether the HCA represents what we are looking for or not.
 
Lykame said:
Hi @yssie. I'm confused, I didn't think that the HCA had anything to do with the word 'colourless'. I thought it was based on light performance.
Click to expand...
It's confusing! HCA doesn't talk explicitly about colourlessness, but it does define a "best type of light performance", and its definition of "best" demands maximizing contrast and maximizing high-energy light return face-up. High-energy outputs, which are the results of short light paths, will look "whiter" than lower-energy outputs - higher-energy = "brighter", and "brighter" = "whiter". If one wants the brightest and whitest-looking stone face-up, HCA is a fantastic tool - this is why you'll often see people on here talk about their boutique H&A Hs looking like Gs face-up. If, however, the goal is actually to see body colour face-up those PS-preferred proportions are probably the worst choice!

Lykame said:
I have no care at all that the stone is brown, I think brown diamonds are awesome. I think brown diamonds - or D coloured diamonds - that behave poorly in light are rubbish and I would hate for the OP to spend hard earned money on a stone that behaved poorly in light. I have been admiring @lovedogs videos of her beautiful brown toned diamond a lot! It's stunning. It has an HCA of 1.3.

This stone has an HCA of 5.1, and that honestly raises alarm bells for me. I would at least wish to see an ASET. I know that HCA has limitations... but I'm not sure how the HCA is limiting me here. I cannot do what @sledge commonly does, and insert a picture of the AGSL proportion chart. As far as I can tell, this stone falls in the 'good' range, and is surrounded by six good boxes, one very good box and one excellent box. I know that not everyone wants a super ideal stone, but this really falls flat to me. @lovedogs stone falls in the 'ideal' range and is surrounded by eight ideal boxes. Her stone looks amazing.
Click to expand...

Long light paths means less-bright and more-tinted, but it doesn't necessarily mean "dull" or "lifeless" - the virtual facets on this stone are large, symmetric, and clearly-delineated (crisp). @lovedogs 's beauty (and it is!) would look more colourless face-up and brighter face-up than the IGI stone OP has shortlisted. However, the OP's choice will also be lively and colourful, especially in motion.
 
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@yssie jinx! I think we were posting at the exact same time :)
 
I got a faint brown stone (L) with a rose gold setting and it's a great combination where the color can't be seen at all.

However, a couple of caveats:

1. Even though that's a rose gold ring, the head on it is white gold, which will remove some of the benefits of having the rose gold mask the brown.
2. The better the cut the less color you see from the top.
3. Even though all K-M stones with brown undertones will be labeled faint brown, the brownness of the tint will vary (like colored diamonds, some are pure brown, some are brownish yellow, some are yellowish brown; sweet spot in my opinion would be brownish yellow + fluorescence), so you need to see it for yourself.
4. With a solitaire you're going to be able to view the stone from the side more than say the halo setting we got. I'd select one where the stone is less exposed on the sides and surround with more rose gold.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
yssie said:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5538225
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5338071

upload_2018-9-2_16-59-9.png
upload_2018-9-2_16-59-47.png
upload_2018-9-2_17-0-38.png

To @Lykame's point about IGI being less demanding on colour/clarity than GIA/AGSL in the US ^

Icy white diamonds can look lovely with RG - so can light browns ::)
Click to expand...

Yes, see, both those brown colours are really lovely tones, and I'm by no means an expert but the IGI stone looks like it would be at least one scale darker than the GIA graded stone. I think I read somewhere that if you're paying about 20% less for an IGI stone compared to the same GIA stone then you're probably doing okay if you want to stick with IGI... I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly about the 20% but I'm not sure you've paid that much less for the IGI stone compared to that GIA stone.

For what it's worth, the HCA of the GIA stone is 2.4 (better, although still not less than 2) - it is steep and has a small table, so it would be a firey stone! That might be to the OP's liking. It falls on 'very good' with two ideals, two excellents and four very goods surrounding it. I like it more than the other stone.

Unfortunately I have to go bed so I cannot go hunting for more at the moment. @jpark922, what currency are you in? USD? Do you have any clarity preferences? This is quite a clear stone - if you're after eye-clean then you could go to VS2 or even some SI1s.

Do you have an opinion on fluorescence?

You appear to have been looking around the 1 carat mark, although if you drop clarity slightly you might be able to get more. It sounds like a brown diamond would be right up your street - @lovedogs, you used IDJ right? You phoned them and they found a stone within budget that was brown and 'pricescope' quality. Perhaps that's an option here.

I'll try hunting tomorrow for something. :) Probably others will beat me to it.
 
yssie said:
@Lykame I think a lot of it comes down to what OP is looking for. HCA is a fantastic tool but it does have significant limitations - first and foremost, it assumes that the user is aiming for "as colourless as possible face-up" - which may not be the case here. With RBs, especially, "poor cut" by PS norms is actually the best way to bring out body colour face-up... I agree that the stone is quite noticeably tinted!
Click to expand...

@yssie I think you edited this after I first saw it and responded - I did not know that 'poor cut' by PS norms brings out body colour face up. I do understand why - if you have bad light return then you'll more easily see the body colour. But still, isn't that then its own problem? To see the body colour, you then have poor light performance... and that sucks??? Surely there must be a compromise... like that GIA stone you posted? :D That'll be more firey, slightly less brilliant, and therefore slightly more likely to demonstrate its body colour? Or! Get an even more brown stone??? I'd be curious as to what @lovedogs stone looks like face up when she shares pictures of it - you can see the beautiful warmth in the pictures and video but it doesn't look like it's compromising on light performance. Don't see why the OP can't have the best of both worlds, really. :)
 
@Lykame And I think you've just summarized several years of discussions between trademembers here on PS! ::)
Maybe @Rockdiamond will see this thread and comment.


jpark922 said:
really the only preference is as long as the diamond complements the rose gold setting well.
Click to expand...

Ignoring budget and other constraints (pesky reality, honestly!) would you prefer
A) A "D" (colourless) diamond that looks icy, icy white?​
Or
B) A coloured diamond that 'blends with'/'matches' the rose gold metal?​
 
I'm a little nervous that she's only "ok" with a light brown stone. She won't see many other rings with light brown stones, and it won't look like the images shown online or in pictures of rose gold engagement rings. Rose gold is great, and colorless (or near colorless) diamonds look nice in RG as well.

Again, NOT trying to discourage you but would hate your GF to be disappointed.

The setting you like is one that other vendors would have as well (since it's a 4 prong solitaire), so that opens you up to different vendors. But before we start looking I just want to make 100% sure that light brown is the direction you want to go rather than looking for a more traditional stone.
 
yssie said:
It's confusing! HCA doesn't talk explicitly about colourlessness, but it does define a "best type of light performance", and its definition of "best" demands maximizing contrast and maximizing high-energy light return face-up. High-energy outputs, which are the results of short light paths, will look "whiter" than lower-energy outputs - higher-energy = "brighter", and "brighter" = "whiter". If one wants the brightest and whitest-looking stone face-up, HCA is a fantastic tool - this is why you'll often see people on here talk about their boutique H&A Hs looking like Gs face-up. If, however, the goal is actually to see body colour face-up those PS-preferred proportions are probably the worst choice!



Long light paths means less-bright and more-tinted, but it doesn't necessarily mean "dull" or "lifeless" - the virtual facets on this stone are large, symmetric, and clearly-delineated (crisp). @lovedogs 's beauty (and it is!) would look more colourless face-up and brighter face-up than the IGI stone OP has shortlisted. However, the OP's choice will also be lively and colourful, especially in motion.
Click to expand...

Okay I do totally understand what you're saying. How then do you interpret whether a stone is dull or lifeless? I would worry about that. What would you expect an ASET to look like? Leaky? I just wouldn't know how to balance it all, I guess. I would ask someone else to do it for me! :D I would rather go more brown in body tone and still have excellent light performance, or like your GIA one, be a tad steep and deep but still lovely... but I guess that's not the case for everyone, and I cannot help but be worried about the 5.1 HCA of the OP's stone.
 
lovedogs said:
@Lykame I think @yssie is referring to the fact that HCA makes assumptions about what the buyer is looking for. 1. It assumes that the buyer doesn't want a 60/60 stone (irrelevant here but a good thing to know overall), and 2. That the buyer wants a stone cut to maximize fire/scintilation, not color.

Colored diamonds (fancy light brown, etc, even ones that have "faint brown") are often cut to maximize the beauty of the color. Meaning they will score poorly on the HCA. I asked @Rockdiamond about this when I was looking at stones. Basically the question is whether the buyer is looking for the "perfect" color, or if cut parameters are most important.

Of course the best thing would be if buyers could see all cuts/colors in person to see what's *ideal* for them, but since most of us can't, we need to decide whether the HCA represents what we are looking for or not.
Click to expand...
Yes, between you and @yssie you have explained it all beautifully.

Sorry @jpark922 for slightly overrunning the thread on this topic, although I do feel it's useful for you, but @lovedogs, how did you choose? In fact, you didn't seem to choose - you went for a brown stone with an absolutely excellent cut. Ideal even. Did you go more brown to compensate? Or were you actually happy to have a brown stone but to get a more white face up appearance??? I feel sure that even though you have an awesomely cut stone, it's still going to be a warm brown in appearance...? I know that excellent cuts whiten things somewhat... but is it really by that much that people don't want stones so well cut because it 'hides' the base colour they're looking for??? Wow.

So interesting! :D
 
This one is also worth taking a look at in my opinion.

GIA Number: 1308154701

https://diamanti.s3.amazonaws.com/video/Vision360.html?d=183142-251

No milkiness despite the clouds and the strong blue according to the cutter. The brown tone is quite faint. Even cheaper than the other one because it's a SI1, but it's eye clean, once again according to the cutter.
 
Ok, so IF she's ok with lower color stones that aren't explicitly "slight brown" and/or if you are sure she isn't super color sensitive, here are some stones I like:

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....gn=201809&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0....gn=201809&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamon...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2017

With all I would ask for ASET and/or IS images. IMHO it's easier to get the setting and stone from one vendor, in which case I'd stick to Adiamor and look at their rose gold solitaire options:

https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-Rings/Search/Solitaire

This one looks like the one she likes, but with 6 prongs https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-...und-Diamond-in-14K-Rose-Gold/14KRoseGold/1424

If you are getting a warmer stone, I might suggest RG prongs, but it depends on the specific stone.
 
I dont have a light brown color sample to load in to DC but here is a darker pink brown.
One image is 34.9/40.8 the other is 35.9/41.2 from the same virtual "rough"
What this is telling me is the material of the diamond under consideration would have been near colorless with just a tiny hint of brown cut to ideal cut proportions. I'm rather surprised it was not cut that way.
345408.jpg 359412.jpg
 
I am having a discussion with her about it right now. From what I am reading regarding the discussion on HCA, it seems that the higher the HCA, the more the stone retains its color, but gives up some of its "shininess?" The lower the HCA = shinier but less retaining of color?

If we were to go with a "D" color, does that translate to a higher price and therefore an overall decrease in carats if I am trying to stick to a budget?

Thank you for the clarification... I will post once she lets me know what color she wants :)
 
And its okay! This discussion has been very informative. I think she's out shopping right now so I'll post once she replies to me!
 
I don't know enough about whether it is a good deal but I do love the faint color on that stone, it will look stunning in rose gold :kiss2:

ETA: oh wow, just saw all the added discussion on the fieriness of the stone. Good advice to have a discussion on how much you and your SO want to prioritize color vs. fire, the right combination is out there for you and there are people here who are excellent at finding stones based on whatever your search criteria may be. =)
 
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jpark922 said:
I am having a discussion with her about it right now. From what I am reading regarding the discussion on HCA, it seems that the higher the HCA, the more the stone retains its color, but gives up some of its "shininess?" The lower the HCA = shinier but less retaining of color?

If we were to go with a "D" color, does that translate to a higher price and therefore an overall decrease in carats if I am trying to stick to a budget?

Thank you for the clarification... I will post once she lets me know what color she wants :)
Click to expand...

Not exactly. The HCA is just an accept/reject tool. So anything higher than 2 is something to reject IF you are looking for a colorless (or near colorless) round stone. HCA is useless if you want a specific color of diamond, or if you want a 60/60 style, or anything that isn't round.

Anything under 2 is "accept" assuming you want the above. So it's not a matter of "better" within the over 2 or under 2 category, it's just a "yes/no". And even for things under 2 we would want more information (like ASET or IS images) to make sure light performance is good.
 
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