"Eye Clean"

[PapaSB]

I am finding one thing a little strange.

People use the term "eye clean" a lot on the site.

If something is a SI2, why would you check if its "eye clean"? Surely if its SI2, then any SI2 will look like and SI2?

Dark spots vs white spots, etc - is this all another layer of confusion that i am yet to learn?

Should i worry if a VS2 has a slight inclusion towards the top of the stone in the middle of the table area? Would you consider it to be "eye clean"?

How can you tell?

Should i post the link?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/26/2008 5:15:11 AM
Author:PapaSB
I am finding one thing a little strange.

People use the term 'eye clean' a lot on the site.

If something is a SI2, why would you check if its 'eye clean'? Surely if its SI2, then any SI2 will look like and SI2?

Dark spots vs white spots, etc - is this all another layer of confusion that i am yet to learn?

Should i worry if a VS2 has a slight inclusion towards the top of the stone in the middle of the table area? Would you consider it to be 'eye clean'?

How can you tell?

Should i post the link?

What you are asking can't really be explained in one post unfortunately. I will try to address some of your questions, also if you read this thread ;

clarity, eyeclean definitions and taste

this should help you learn about how a diamond is judged to be eyeclean or not, and all the factors which need to be considered.

Also read about clarity in the advanced tutorial here - http://diamonds.pricescope.com/

Also SI for a clarity grade means slightly included, an SI2 slightly more so in general terms than SI1 for example. Once you hit these clarity grades, a diamond may or may not be eyeclean, an inclusion may be visible to some people, it may be dark or light or transparent. It may be a small dark blotch right in the table where it can be clearly noticeable, or it may be a white feather off to the side which can't be seen except under close scrutiny. It depends.

You may have an SI2 clarity which has been graded by a person who is grading diamonds very strictly, so it is given an SI2 clarity grade when another may grade it higher. Clarity grading is also done face up and is very subjective. A diamond may even be clean face up, but you may see an inclusion from the sides in some cases.

In short, SI clarities are not created equal. This is why you need the eyes and expertise of a trusted vendor to tell you whether a diamond is eyeclean or not, and for the buyer to make it plain to the vendor what their comfort level is for an eyeclean diamond.

As to your query regarding a VS2 inclusion on the table of a diamond, depending on the size of the rock, there is a good chance it may be eyeclean, but as I said above, you need a trusted vendor to physically check the diamond out for you.

Also you can certainly post the link and we can help you with the cut, but the only person qualified to tell you for sure if the diamond is eyeclean or not is the vendor if he actually has seen the diamond. That is why we often suggest using a vendor who has his own inventory of diamonds that he can check out for the buyer.

 

[Cleo]

Eye clean literally means that a stone is clean to your naked eye (no loupe). This means that when you look at the stone you can't see any inclusions in it.

Yes, SI2 is SI2.

BUT!

Diamonds are graded under 10x magnification.

Some of those inclusions that cause a stone to be graded as an SI2 can mysteriously seem to vanish when looked at with the naked eye. However, some inclusions do not.

This is why you can get some SI2s which are eye clean and some which are not.

The important point is that you need to define YOUR idea of eye clean. To some vendors a stone is eye clean if the inclusion/s can't be seen, face up, at say 18 inches away.

However, YOUR idea of eye clean might be that no inclusions can be seen either face up, or from the sides, from as close as you can possible focus at (maybe 6 inches away?).

Unfortunately, you can't tell from looking at pics if a stone is going to be eye clean or not.

If you want to know if a diamond you are considering is eye clean, then then the only way to tell (short of looking at it yourself) is to ask the vendor to confirm it for you. It is ESSENTIAL that you let the vendor know your definition of eye clean though... so you're both singing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to eye cleanliness.

A VS2 is usually eye clean. (I would have said always, but a PSer recently found one that isn't and I'm sure there are more out there the same!).

Plots of inclusions can look desperately scary, especially plots of clouds... and to a non-expert can give quite a misleading impression of what the diamond will look like in real life. You'd scream if you saw the plot of my VS2 - it has what looks like a pretty big cloud on the plot.

Can I see it with my eyes? No.

Can I see it with the loupe? Barely. Only if I really, really look.

Go ahead and post the link if you would like to. If you want to be sure then the best thing is really just to ask the vendor.

x x x

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/26/2008 5:39:25 AM
Author: Cleo
Eye clean literally means that a stone is clean to your naked eye (no loupe). This means that when you look at the stone you can't see any inclusions in it.

Cleo, I hope you don't mind me mentioning this, but for those who may be reading, I just wanted to clarify this point, especially as some don't always read the rest of a post.

The industry definition of eyeclean is - no inclusions visible in normal light with normal vision at arms length. So the consumer who is looking at SI clarities and wants a diamond which is eyeclean at close scrutiny needs to tell the vendor that, some SI will pass this test and others won't.

I just wanted other readers to be aware that this is the professionals working definition of eyecleanliness if you like, and that the consumer who wants a very clean diamond at all angles at a very close distance, needs to let their vendor know that.

 

[Cleo]

Thankyou Lorelei

x x x

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/26/2008 5:54:13 AM
Author: Cleo
Thankyou Lorelei

x x x

Thank YOU Cleo!

I wanted to say also, you have learned fast and are doing a great job!

 

[PapaSB]

This is the one.

THE LINK

Now, when you blow it up 40x the inclusion is clearer than a chip in your windscreen - however, would i ever look at it 40x up close. Nope.

There are two diamonds.

This one LINK 1 (pref) and the other one LINK 2

The second has a less symetrical report from the idealscope and Aset reports.

Which is better? Is there any difference? My gut feel is "no" not really.

 

[Lorelei]

Papa, I can't get the links to work. I will say though that until I can get to see the links, you can't tell by the WF pics if a diamond is eyeclean, they are magnified x40 I believe. The staff at WF will tell you for sure if a diamond is eyeclean.

 

[PapaSB]

they should work now.

 

[Cleo]

Wow - they'd almost make a great pair of earrings!!! I had to triple check to make sure I'd opened up links to two different stones!

As you say, they are visible at 40x but I would be surprised if those inclusions were visible even to my eagle eyes... but do get WF to check in each case to be sure.

I know nothing of princess cuts - so I will leave the choosing between the two to someone who does.

Having said that, I looked at the AGSL certs to see if either had a carbon spot. No 1 has a crystal, cloud & feather. No 2 has a feather, cavity and chip, marked on the underside.

If it were me, I prefer the sound of crystal, cloud & feather! LOL! (NB. This is not a scientific analysis of the inclusions.. just me being scared of the word 'chip'!)

x x x

*ETA* That means a lot coming from you Lorelei, thankyou

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks! Both of those are ACA Princess, so they have been cut to the tightest degree for top light performance, lovely choices! I would ask Brian at WF perhaps to advise you as to which one might suit you the best. You can''t go wrong though whichever you choose! He will advise you on eyecleanliness also, but I would think there won''t be an issue.

 

[PapaSB]

Just been searching on what crystal, clouds, feathers all mean.

I am a little clearer now.

Also, when searching on the WF site I did eventually find this:

What is your definition of ‘Eye-Clean’?

Our definition of eye-clean: No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision. Distance, lighting and human vision all influence judgment. Since there is no official definition for eye-clean so we developed one in order to communicate meaningfully with our customers. 10 inches is the ‘distance of most distinct vision’ as defined by the AGS, so this is a logical standard and a practical baseline. There are very clean SI diamonds. Still, for those with ‘radar’ vision or strong clarity worries we encourage a grade of VS2 or above to ensure that they are receiving a ‘mind clean’ diamond. (-df)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/26/2008 9:05:14 AM
Author: PapaSB
Just been searching on what crystal, clouds, feathers all mean.

I am a little clearer now.

Also, when searching on the WF site I did eventually find this:

What is your definition of ‘Eye-Clean’?

Our definition of eye-clean: No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision. Distance, lighting and human vision all influence judgment. Since there is no official definition for eye-clean so we developed one in order to communicate meaningfully with our customers. 10 inches is the ‘distance of most distinct vision’ as defined by the AGS, so this is a logical standard and a practical baseline. There are very clean SI diamonds. Still, for those with ‘radar’ vision or strong clarity worries we encourage a grade of VS2 or above to ensure that they are receiving a ‘mind clean’ diamond. (-df)

Good work Papa! That is the baseline WF uses, so that should be helpful to you.

 

[PapaSB]

Again, answering my own post, but as i find out this information i thought it might be useful for when a newbie arrives and has the same questions.

Apparently the definition of a VS2 is that inclusions will only just be visible when you use a lube at 10x and that you have a trained eye.
Apparently VS2 would not be visible to the untrained eye without the lube.

Happy to be shouted down, but that i what i have found out.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/28/2008 5:14:47 AM
Author: PapaSB
Again, answering my own post, but as i find out this information i thought it might be useful for when a newbie arrives and has the same questions.

Apparently the definition of a VS2 is that inclusions will only just be visible when you use a lube at 10x and that you have a trained eye.
Apparently VS2 would not be visible to the untrained eye without the lube.

Happy to be shouted down, but that i what i have found out.

Papa, it isn't as straightforward as that unfortunately. While generally VS2 are eyeclean, various factors can affect this. It is possible that a 7 carat emerald cut may not be eyeclean in a VS2 clarity, a 1 carat round brilliant most probably will be. Size, shape, individual vision, lighting, cut quality can make a difference. Also the type, location, size, colour and visibility of the inclusion/s that make the VS2 grade need to be considered.

In short always consider each VS2 diamond on it's own merits rather than assume it is or will be eyeclean. And the eyes of a trusted vendor are crucial in order to help you make that determination.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/28/2008 5:14:47 AM
Author: PapaSB
Again, answering my own post, but as i find out this information i thought it might be useful for when a newbie arrives and has the same questions.

Apparently the definition of a VS2 is that inclusions will only just be visible when you use a lube at 10x and that you have a trained eye.
Apparently VS2 would not be visible to the untrained eye without the lube.

Happy to be shouted down, but that i what i have found out.

Hi,
"loupe"

 

[PapaSB]

[blush]

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/28/2008 6:01:38 AM
Author: PapaSB
[blush]

No worries Papa - LOL!