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Eye clean I1?

Wow, I really had to see it go around 3 times and look at the report to finally see it! It's beautiful! I'd just double check with the gemologist to make sure it's eye clean and that the feather won't cause any issues to the diamond later on. If all checks out, it's a gorgeous stone!!!!
 
That looks really clean.
 
I'd be wary of an I1 with a feather being the grade making inclusion. The feather appears to be near the surface so be very careful about having it checked out.
 
Well I am certainly taking everyone's good advice and explicitly asking that the gemologist check that the feather will not cause any future problems.

DS-you've often warned PSers about the vulnerability of I1's to crack or chip, particularly when the inclusion is shallow. Would you yourself ever purchase an I1 if the stone were eye clean, and the gemologist said that the inclusion didn't affect the integrity of the diamond? In other words, would you trust a gemologist saying that an I1 feather is okay?

For all those interested in learning more about feathers, I found this article to be extremely helpful: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk
Bottom line: feathers very, very rarely cause problems, but certain characteristics in a given feather's manifestation could raise the risk of a crack or chip.
 
Wow, it is so beautiful and clean. :love:
 
The inclusion is pretty obvious and its murky. Unlikely it would be eye clean.
 
teobdl|1368678891|3447943 said:
Well I am certainly taking everyone's good advice and explicitly asking that the gemologist check that the feather will not cause any future problems.

DS-you've often warned PSers about the vulnerability of I1's to crack or chip, particularly when the inclusion is shallow. Would you yourself ever purchase an I1 if the stone were eye clean, and the gemologist said that the inclusion didn't affect the integrity of the diamond? In other words, would you trust a gemologist saying that an I1 feather is okay?

For all those interested in learning more about feathers, I found this article to be extremely helpful: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk
Bottom line: feathers very, very rarely cause problems, but certain characteristics in a given feather's manifestation could raise the risk of a crack or chip.
Click to expand...

No, I would never knowingly buy an I1 or SI2 because I want a balance of quality in any diamond I buy, and SI1 would be the lowest clarity I would consider. For example, if my choice was a 1 ct. H I1 versus a .75 H VS2, I would prefer the .75 a thousand times more. So there would never be an instance where I'd choose I1. I did inadvertantly buy I1 before Pricescope because I was shopping for new studs and told a jeweler I was fine with SI1 for earrings. They sold me a pair of uncertified stones as H SI and I was happy with them until I had them checked out by other jewelers who confirmed they were I1...too late to return. I just don't care for diamonds with cracks or carbon blobs. And my stones had feathers/cracks...not visible to my eye at all, but visible with a loupe. I sold them to a jeweler and bought a nice watch and then bought ideal cut H V2 studs from WF!

I don't think I warn people so much about I1's having durablity issues as I do with stones that have very low crown angles or very thin girdles. I just like better quality stones and an I1 is low quality. I just wouldn't spend thousands on a low quality diamond. That is blunt but I don't know how to say it any other way. If this stone is for yourself, fine. But if you are buying for someone else, I'd be buying the best quality you can afford and I would absolutely not go below SI2.
 
Normally I have the same opinion as DS, and I typically don't go lower than VS2.

BUT this stone is very nice for an I1, quite possibly the nicest I1 I've seen. Wait for the gemologist to reply and see if they have any concerns. I assume this is for an engagement ring?
 
diamondloveaffair|1368711737|3448131 said:
The inclusion is pretty obvious and its murky. Unlikely it would be eye clean.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking...it probably wouldn't be graded I1 if it was eyeclean.
 
two_little_birds|1368713698|3448156 said:
Normally I have the same opinion as DS, and I typically don't go lower than VS2.

BUT this stone is very nice for an I1, quite possibly the nicest I1 I've seen. Wait for the gemologist to reply and see if they have any concerns. I assume this is for an engagement ring?
Click to expand...


HUGE +1, and the inclusions is most definitely NOT obvious! Or murky. But again, wait for the expert to tell you and let us know what they say.
 
there's a reason why I1s are I1s and not vs2s or vs1s. You people always talk about how GIA is a reliable lab and here you are, trying to game the system. isn't it ironic?
 
My mom has an eye-clean I1 stone in her e0ring, and it's even EGL-USA graded! So they are out there. Hers is also a feather, which I can only find from the side view at close inspection and knowing where to look. If the gemologist approves, it could be a nice buy.
 
I'd suggest that most supposedly "eye-clean" I1 diamonds are not truly "eye-clean" anyway. A person with excellent vision and a trained pair of eyes who examines a diamond "face-up" carefully under proper lighting at 6 to 15 inches and sees no inclusions is qualified to say "eye-clean". When a diamond shows nothing to that expert observer under those circumstances then we have a diamond of rather low clarity that mimics the appearance of a substantially higher clarity grade.

Many times a diamond which a consumer sees as eye-clean has issues of slight clouds or a general, yet minor, lack of transparency. If you can't pick out a single black inclusion or a large white feather, etc, one still needs to understand that a less than fully transparent situation is not "eye-clean" in the diamond world. A seller can say anything they want describing a diamond, and so they might just choose to leave out a non-visible circumstance which has a negative impact on light return arising from less than complete transparency, but no specific visible inclusion.

Many diamonds of I1 clarity can be lovely and totally "eye-clean" at 2 or more feet from the observer's eyes. Most admirer's of a ring on your finger will not see what you can barely see at a very close distance. How many of you will have people who scrutinize your diamond in order to criticize it? Most will look at it, admire it politely and hopefully understand that it is a symbolic and meaningful gift, not a stone won in a contest...............Not that there is a shortage of shallow people out there, but never on Pricescope, right?

When you buy an I1 diamond you can often get a very good value for your money and also not break a limited budget. However, there is a reason it has been graded I1 and not Si2 or Si1 in most every case and you can't expect to be that lucky person unless you also know you will win next week's Lottery drawing, too. Yes, folks win million dollar lottery prizes with great frequency and it almost isn't even in the news unless it is hundreds of millions. So, it can happen, but you just can't plan on it.
 
diamondloveaffair|1368716769|3448178 said:
there's a reason why I1s are I1s and not vs2s or vs1s. You people always talk about how GIA is a reliable lab and here you are, trying to game the system. isn't it ironic?
Click to expand...

Um....what?!?
 
I say buy it, look at it ... if it passes your eye test ... send it to a trusted independent appraiser to make sure. JA has a good return policy so the shipping cost and appraisal cost may be well worth it for a peace of mind. Making sure you aren't passing up a deal or making an educated decision why it isn't a deal.
 
04diamond<3|1368716396|3448175 said:
two_little_birds|1368713698|3448156 said:
Normally I have the same opinion as DS, and I typically don't go lower than VS2.

BUT this stone is very nice for an I1, quite possibly the nicest I1 I've seen. Wait for the gemologist to reply and see if they have any concerns. I assume this is for an engagement ring?
Click to expand...


HUGE +1, and the inclusions is most definitely NOT obvious! Or murky. But again, wait for the expert to tell you and let us know what they say.
Click to expand...

I agree! I normally wouldn't consider buying an I1 but I would definitely check out this stone if I were looking. Great find!
 
diamondloveaffair|1368716769|3448178 said:
there's a reason why I1s are I1s and not vs2s or vs1s. You people always talk about how GIA is a reliable lab and here you are, trying to game the system. isn't it ironic?
Click to expand...

Huh? What a strange post.
 
Oldminer|1368719431|3448214 said:
I'd suggest that most supposedly "eye-clean" I1 diamonds are not truly "eye-clean" anyway. A person with excellent vision and a trained pair of eyes who examines a diamond "face-up" carefully under proper lighting at 6 to 15 inches and sees no inclusions is qualified to say "eye-clean". When a diamond shows nothing to that expert observer under those circumstances then we have a diamond of rather low clarity that mimics the appearance of a substantially higher clarity grade.

Many times a diamond which a consumer sees as eye-clean has issues of slight clouds or a general, yet minor, lack of transparency. If you can't pick out a single black inclusion or a large white feather, etc, one still needs to understand that a less than fully transparent situation is not "eye-clean" in the diamond world. A seller can say anything they want describing a diamond, and so they might just choose to leave out a non-visible circumstance which has a negative impact on light return arising from less than complete transparency, but no specific visible inclusion.

Many diamonds of I1 clarity can be lovely and totally "eye-clean" at 2 or more feet from the observer's eyes. Most admirer's of a ring on your finger will not see what you can barely see at a very close distance. How many of you will have people who scrutinize your diamond in order to criticize it? Most will look at it, admire it politely and hopefully understand that it is a symbolic and meaningful gift, not a stone won in a contest...............Not that there is a shortage of shallow people out there, but never on Pricescope, right?

When you buy an I1 diamond you can often get a very good value for your money and also not break a limited budget. However, there is a reason it has been graded I1 and not Si2 or Si1 in most every case and you can't expect to be that lucky person unless you also know you will win next week's Lottery drawing, too. Yes, folks win million dollar lottery prizes with great frequency and it almost isn't even in the news unless it is hundreds of millions. So, it can happen, but you just can't plan on it.
Click to expand...


Excellent post!
 
diamondloveaffair|1368716769|3448178 said:
there's a reason why I1s are I1s and not vs2s or vs1s. You people always talk about how GIA is a reliable lab and here you are, trying to game the system. isn't it ironic?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I1 does not mean "not eye-clean," it simply means that "the inclusion is obvious under 10x magnification and may affect transparency and brilliance" (http://gia4cs.gia.edu/en-us/diamond-clarity.htm). Your point is well taken, though: a grade is a grade, and high hopes can't change the fact that it was graded an I1. In fact, an I1 grade is probably the best sensitivity test for finding a dirty diamond. That said, finding one of those few eye-clean I1's makes for a tremendous deal if you're willing to own a diamond with an inclusion of that grade.

And now for the moment of truth... according to the gemologist, the feather will not affect durability, however it is eye visible and the IdealScope shows noticeable leakage under the feather. Against all hope among the optimists, the doubters have been vindicated! mrb_.jpg In addition to the leakage under the feather, I'm a bit surprised that there's some leakage in the ring under the table, especially given the crown:pavilion angles. I'm told that the leakage just 3 o'clock to the theoretical culet is actually an artifact of the feather... but it's leakage nonetheless.

Given the great angles, good color, and online images, I'm still intrigued by this diamond. I want to see it for myself and make my own impression, so I'm ordering it first thing tomorrow morning. I almost don't believe that the feather is frank, so seeing it myself will be very instructive. Also, having the opportunity to correlate an IdealScope with a diamond will be helpful for me in evaluating the various PS forum images. I'm going away for 1.5 weeks, and I'll let you know my real life impressions when I return.

Thank you all for your advice and honest opinions, especially diamondseeker! No hard feelings, and no offense taken. I do appreciate your thoughts.
 
One word...INSURANCE.
If the stone is beautiful, buy it, insure it, and enjoy it.
 
I surely am not seeing much leakage in that idealscope image??? I can see the feather but the diamond looks acceptable other than that. It is quite unusual for someone to buy a diamond that has been said to be non-eyeclean by a gemologist. I will be interested to hear your report!
 
Hi:

For what purpose are you contemplating and I1? Pendant? ER? RHR? Single ear piercing?

cheers--Sharon
 
The ideal scope looks beautiful!!!! And ditto on what BeachGirlG said!!! Hope you get it, and post tons of pics for us!! :appl:
 
The ideal-scope is perfect. I believe stones like that worn in rings should always be insured. They do have a higher chance of breakage.

Ask the gemologist if the opening is wide enough to fill with black dirt, and if it is, will they be prepared to deep boil it or let you trade it up if it becomes a problem.
It is an I1 for a reason, and yes - too many people try to 'game GIA graders'. Most end up with cloudy milky stones and maybe they are happy not knowing what they don't know.
Dave gave sound advice in his post.
 
teobdl|1368747143|3448601 said:
diamondloveaffair|1368716769|3448178 said:
there's a reason why I1s are I1s and not vs2s or vs1s. You people always talk about how GIA is a reliable lab and here you are, trying to game the system. isn't it ironic?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I1 does not mean "not eye-clean," it simply means that "the inclusion is obvious under 10x magnification and may affect transparency and brilliance" (http://gia4cs.gia.edu/en-us/diamond-clarity.htm). Your point is well taken, though: a grade is a grade, and high hopes can't change the fact that it was graded an I1. In fact, an I1 grade is probably the best sensitivity test for finding a dirty diamond. That said, finding one of those few eye-clean I1's makes for a tremendous deal if you're willing to own a diamond with an inclusion of that grade.

And now for the moment of truth... according to the gemologist, the feather will not affect durability, however it is eye visible and the IdealScope shows noticeable leakage under the feather. Against all hope among the optimists, the doubters have been vindicated! mrb_.jpg In addition to the leakage under the feather, I'm a bit surprised that there's some leakage in the ring under the table, especially given the crown:pavilion angles. I'm told that the leakage just 3 o'clock to the theoretical culet is actually an artifact of the feather... but it's leakage nonetheless.

Given the great angles, good color, and online images, I'm still intrigued by this diamond. I want to see it for myself and make my own impression, so I'm ordering it first thing tomorrow morning. I almost don't believe that the feather is frank, so seeing it myself will be very instructive. Also, having the opportunity to correlate an IdealScope with a diamond will be helpful for me in evaluating the various PS forum images. I'm going away for 1.5 weeks, and I'll let you know my real life impressions when I return.

Thank you all for your advice and honest opinions, especially diamondseeker! No hard feelings, and no offense taken. I do appreciate your thoughts.
Click to expand...

The JA person reviewing the stone just confirmed what I said. One look at the stone and I can tell it isn't going to be eye clean. Seeing it yourself will be the best way to determine whether you can accept the splotch on the stone.
 
Amazing I1!

When I clicked the link to take a look at this stone, the image that appeared was definitely NOT what I expected to see. I have to say that I, being such the amateur diamond-admirer, was blown away. This is really a nice-looking I1. I was impressed.
I saw the end results from the gemologist, and saw that you’ve decided to purchase it to inspect the stone for yourself. I can't wait to see your thoughts. I certainly hope it serves the purpose that you're considering it for because again, I believe it's a steal.
Like others have asked, I have to ask the same the same question. Are you considering this diamond for an e-ring? Or will this be used in a pendant, RHR, or another item? Just curious…..
 
Thank you for correcting me about the issue of "leakage" in the IdealScope. I was seeing the less intense red (the mixing with some gray), and thought that might be slight leakage. Is it typical of even the best cut diamonds to have less intensity under the table?

I just purchased the diamond, and I will see it next Wednesday (end of May) when I return from my vacation. I'll certainly take a very close look and even compare it to an IF diamond that I recently purchased. The diamond I like better will, in fact, be for an engagement ring. As a soon-to-be graduate student, I've set myself a hard budget, and I'm sticking to it. Within that budget, there are two non-negotiables for me: at least approximately 6 mm size and top of the line light performance. Obviously, color and/or clarity had to give. So here's the choice...

1. 0.80 AVR M IF
Quite simply, among the most brilliant things I've ever looked it. It's like a little star that explodes out light from nowhere. I've seen a few rocks with great real life scintillation and fire, and this AVR has it. But the most impressive thing is that, even when the rock is in a very dim place, it just reflects back whatever light it can collect and glows bright white. On top of the amazing performance, I love that it's IF, and that almost no one else will have a diamond with similar faceting and character as this one. You really need to see one of these in person. Magical.
That said, the M color rears its ugly head when viewed on the profile in certain lighting, particularly office lighting. I do like the warmth from above and at slight angles. But when viewed at more extreme profile angles, the color is, as expected, obvious. It resembles diluted champagne, but frankly it kind of reminds me of yellow teeth, smoker nails, etc etc. I now see why people like to stay in the whiter range! My gf has told me in passing that she likes "warmer" diamonds, but I imagine that faint yellow is not what she had in mind...?

I have a feeling that I'll end up with this diamond on the basis that it performs so fantastically well (can you tell I like it?), and that 90% of the time, the color is very negligible, even unnoticeable to the untrained and unassuming eye. I would minimize the 10% of it's ugly time by setting it in yellow gold. Set appropriately, I think this diamond could be a winner. I'd prefer to give her a top of the line looking diamond 90% of the time to a mediocre diamond 100% of the time.

2. 0.86 MRB H I1 (the one being discussed on this thread)
It's slightly bigger (0.3 mm), and I look forward to seeing if the size difference is discernible.
As far as the other characteristics, I don't think I could be on farther ends of the spectrum between these two diamonds. It will come down to a balance of
a) which performs better
b) which has the "con" that is more acceptable--an annoying color, or an I1 inclusion that (maybe) muddies the look and could potentially turn into damage.

If the I1 MRB is acceptably eye clean to me and the performance is competitive, then I'd be tempted to go with it. The price difference, by the way, is about $50, so very negligible.

Decisions, decisions... Any words of advice?
 
teobdl|1368828943|3449271 said:
Thank you for correcting me about the issue of "leakage" in the IdealScope. I was seeing the less intense red (the mixing with some gray), and thought that might be slight leakage. Is it typical of even the best cut diamonds to have less intensity under the table?

I just purchased the diamond, and I will see it next Wednesday (end of May) when I return from my vacation. I'll certainly take a very close look and even compare it to an IF diamond that I recently purchased. The diamond I like better will, in fact, be for an engagement ring. As a soon-to-be graduate student, I've set myself a hard budget, and I'm sticking to it. Within that budget, there are two non-negotiables for me: at least approximately 6 mm size and top of the line light performance. Obviously, color and/or clarity had to give. So here's the choice...

1. 0.80 AVR M IF
Quite simply, among the most brilliant things I've ever looked it. It's like a little star that explodes out light from nowhere. I've seen a few rocks with great real life scintillation and fire, and this AVR has it. But the most impressive thing is that, even when the rock is in a very dim place, it just reflects back whatever light it can collect and glows bright white. On top of the amazing performance, I love that it's IF, and that almost no one else will have a diamond with similar faceting and character as this one. You really need to see one of these in person. Magical.
That said, the M color rears its ugly head when viewed on the profile in certain lighting, particularly office lighting. I do like the warmth from above and at slight angles. But when viewed at more extreme profile angles, the color is, as expected, obvious. It resembles diluted champagne, but frankly it kind of reminds me of yellow teeth, smoker nails, etc etc. I now see why people like to stay in the whiter range! My gf has told me in passing that she likes "warmer" diamonds, but I imagine that faint yellow is not what she had in mind...?

I have a feeling that I'll end up with this diamond on the basis that it performs so fantastically well (can you tell I like it?), and that 90% of the time, the color is very negligible, even unnoticeable to the untrained and unassuming eye. I would minimize the 10% of it's ugly time by setting it in yellow gold. Set appropriately, I think this diamond could be a winner. I'd prefer to give her a top of the line looking diamond 90% of the time to a mediocre diamond 100% of the time.

2. 0.86 MRB H I1 (the one being discussed on this thread)
It's slightly bigger (0.3 mm), and I look forward to seeing if the size difference is discernible.
As far as the other characteristics, I don't think I could be on farther ends of the spectrum between these two diamonds. It will come down to a balance of
a) which performs better
b) which has the "con" that is more acceptable--an annoying color, or an I1 inclusion that (maybe) muddies the look and could potentially turn into damage.

If the I1 MRB is acceptably eye clean to me and the performance is competitive, then I'd be tempted to go with it. The price difference, by the way, is about $50, so very negligible.

Decisions, decisions... Any words of advice?
Click to expand...

My two cents as a lay observer (no expert!) and woman who just got an upgrade.

My first ring was an I1 with a large feather that I could see at a certain angle while squinting. Eventually it didn't bother me because no one knew it was there unless I told them, but once in a while I'd lament my choice to purchase an I1.

Just yesterday I ordered an AVC from GOG. I knew I wanted an AVC for light performance. I decided that I would not go below VS2. That said, color was my main issue. I considered a 1 ct L color, but it was far too warm for my taste. I settled for a .91 J, VS1. (SN: I also considered two smaller G color stones of very good clarity.)

If you can find a setting that will camouflage the M color, I would say go for that because I'd be very worried about how the feather will affect light performance. Perhaps a halo of yellow diamonds or a yellow or rose gold crown on the setting of the M diamond?

I'd be concerned not just about leakage, but about the affect the feather has on refraction. At the end of the day whether or not the diamond sparkles will be most important. No one will be glaring at it from the side to look for color or inclusions.
 
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