"Eye Clean" Definition - VS2 with visible cloud

[doug2]

Hi, I was hoping that someone with some experience could answer a few of my questions.

I recently purchased a diamond for an E-ring from James Allan. It is a 0.94ct, Ideal, F, VS2. My main goal in selecting a diamond was that it be "eye clean" (by my definition i.e. no defects visible to the naked eye). Since I was purchasing the diamond online I decided to go the safe route and buy a VS2 (every site that I read said that VS2s were always "eye clean"). However when I hold the diamond to a light and look through the side I can see the cloud in it with the naked eye. Is this normal? By "eye clean" do they really only mean that defects aren''t visible when viewing from the top? I was assuming that it meant that the defects were smaller than the resolution of the human eye.

Here is the link to the diamond ( http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1269414.asp )

If you drag the virtual loupe over the center of the diamond you can see the cloud in question to the right of the center just outside the edge of the white dot in the center. This is the cloud that I can see fairly easily when looking through the side of the diamond.

I am interested to see other peoples thoughts on this. Thanks to everyone in advance.

 

[stone-cold11]

Eye-clean definition of JA

7. James Allen

Face-up from a distance of 10 inches using standard overhead fluorescent lighting (office environment) and 20/20 vision.

If an inclusion is visible under these conditions then we would not consider it eye-clean, regardless of its clarity rating.

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/78/1/What-is-an-Eye-Clean-Diamond--.aspx

VS2 is usually eye-clean from the top, but not necessary from the side.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Usually stone clarity is graded from top down. Regardless of the picture on the site, can you see the cloud with your naked eye when looking at the stone top down IRL?

 

[elle_chris]

Not going to repeat what StoneCold and Hudson_Hawk said. But I will add that if you''re not happy with it, return it i you''re still within your refund period.

 

[doug2]

Thanks! That is what I needed to know and couldn''t find myself. I just wanted to make sure that this wasn''t an uncommon thing that I should be worried about.

 

[wildcatmccane]

Doesn''t vs2 infer no visible inclusions unless using a microscope?

I mean if only a expert can find inclusions in a vvs2-vvs1...seems that a vs2 should only take a bit to find the inclusion with a microscope but not the eye, regardless of how or who is saying its eye clean.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 1/5/2010 12:53:12 PM
Author: wildcatmccane
Doesn''t vs2 infer no visible inclusions unless using a microscope?

I mean if only a expert can find inclusions in a vvs2-vvs1...seems that a vs2 should only take a bit to find the inclusion with a microscope but not the eye, regardless of how or who is saying its eye clean.

10x loupe is used for clarity grading, from the table view, nowhere near the power of a microscope. No where is it stated that you cannot see the inclusions from the side.

Depends also on a person''s eye-sight, same inclusions some can see it some cannot.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/5/2010 12:53:12 PM
Author: wildcatmccane
Doesn''t vs2 infer no visible inclusions unless using a microscope?

I mean if only a expert can find inclusions in a vvs2-vvs1...seems that a vs2 should only take a bit to find the inclusion with a microscope but not the eye, regardless of how or who is saying its eye clean.

VS2 are generally eyeclean but there are exceptions depending on various factors. Bottom line, if you aren''t happy return it - another VS2 might be a better fit or perhaps VS1 and above.

 

[FB.]

As said; VS2 should be eye clean to a casual observer.

If you have exceptional eyesight, you have more chance to see inclusions.

It should be eye clean to the owner when viewed face up at twelve inches. It is sometimes possible to see the inclusions from the top, at six inches, in the right lighting, from the correct angle, if the stone has just one large inclusion, or if several inclusions are very close together. If the inclusions are not clustered, or consist of several smaller inclusions, you won't see them.
It's also possible that the VS2 is borderline SI1.

If you want a diamond to be 100% eye clean from the side, with close, detailed and prolonged inspection in ideal lighting, you need to look at VVS2 or higher clarity. But since diamonds are designed to sparkle when viewed from the top (and that's how people would admire them), then what's to worry about a tiny inclusion visible from the side?

The problem with most diamond owners is that they spend ages examining their stones (especially if in a ring). Eventually, you might see *something* in your stone and once you've found it, you know where to look and how to angle the stone and lighting just perfectly to see the inclusions.

 

[setell]

I think you can get a eye clean VS2. I have a G VS2 with a cloud too and I can barely find the inclusions till Jon had arrows on his pictures pointing to it. When I got the diamond I looked at it all over with a loupe (10x) and couldn't find it either from all sides/angles. So it's good enough for me. Just return the diamond and try your luck on another one.

 

[LGK]

Yes, it''s possible for VS2 stones to have visible inclusions from the side. Obviously not all VS2s have inclusions visible from the side, so if you don''t like it, return it. (Heck I have an EGL graded SI1 that even I, with my nearsighted vision, can''t find any inclusions in from any angle.)

If you do return it, you need to tell the vendor you''re working with what your personal definition of eye-clean is. The above referenced policy (8-10 inches, top down only) is typical of how diamond vendors define eye clean.

 

[wildcatmccane]

This was enlightening. Understand why I say this. Even PS vendors on this site have defined the VS1-2 range has having no inclusions visible to the eye sight. All google (random) searches appear to say the same. Heck, this is the first time I have heard someone say a VS2 has visible inclusions in it.

I guess I learned from the side or bottom business.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I have a VS1 Asscher and I can spot the pinpoint in my stone, some people just have eagle eyes...

 

[wildcatmccane]

is it possible people are just looking at their incorrectly graded stones?

I mean by definition...going off every single place besides this thread...a vs1-2 takes a bit to find it, vvs1-2 takes an expert

For example, first google search of 'diamond clarity'
-http://www.thediamondbuyingguide.com/diamondclarity.html

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wildcat Grading is done from the top, face on. So the grade has nothing to do with whether you can see anything at all from the side or bottom.

 

[wildcatmccane]

so the grader never looks at it from the side to get perspective of what he/she could be looking for?

insert beating a dead horse I know.

But then an IF could have something from the side?

 

[FB.]

Date: 1/6/2010 6:30:17 PM
Author: wildcatmccane
so the grader never looks at it from the side to get perspective of what he/she could be looking for?

insert beating a dead horse I know.

But then an IF could have something from the side?

Flawless means nothing visible with a 10x loupe.
Move up to 15-20x loupe and many flawless stones will have *something* in there.

 

[FB.]

Date: 1/6/2010 4:48:42 PM
Author: wildcatmccane
is it possible people are just looking at their incorrectly graded stones?

I mean by definition...going off every single place besides this thread...a vs1-2 takes a bit to find it, vvs1-2 takes an expert

For example, first google search of 'diamond clarity'
-http://www.thediamondbuyingguide.com/diamondclarity.html

From my observations of diamonds......

The location of the inclusions (under the table, under a star facet, under a bezel fact etc) makes a difference on how visible they are.
The size of the inclusions also makes a difference (one large inclusion is easier to see than several small ones, but the "purity", or the total proportion of the stone that is "included" remains about the same)
The colour or reflectiveness makes a difference (black or white can contrast strongly against the "virtual" facets).
Clusters of inclusions are easier to see with little or no magnification (due to limitations of human eye resolution, several small inclusions can appear to "merge" and appear to be one larger inclusion).

Speaking of round diamonds up to 1.5ct (non-round shapes vary in their ability to hide inclusions)....
I have never seen a VS1 inclusion (from the top or the side) with the naked eye, when mounted.
I have occasionally seen VS2 inclusions face-up with the naked eye, but only at six inches and in ideal lighting, after a long/hard inspection. I have occasionally seen VS2 inclusions from the side, with close inspection.
I can often see SI1 inclusions, face-up, at six inches, or SI2 inclusions at twelve inches. But these inclusions are often lost among the sparkles and dark-light contrast of the light return, so that casual observers do not notice. Some SI2 stones have very unsightly clusters of black crystals (sometimes a single, large, black crystal) that are visible well beyond twelve inches. Sometimes they are "eye clean", but the whole stone is filled with clouds and loses brilliance.

Basically, the problems come when a stone has it's grade determined by a single inclusion. Had the inclusion been broken up into several smaller parts, it would not have been visible.

 

[FB.]

Here's a line-up of SI1 and SI2 stones, to show the variation within clarity grades. Think of clarity in the same way as "purity" (the proportion of the stone that is not diamond), rather than simply how "eye clean" the stone happens to be.
As stated under each stone; some are eye clean from the top. Some are eye clean from the side. Some are eye clean from all angles. Some are not eye clean from any angle.
I forgot to label the last stone - it is SI1.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/6/2010 6:30:17 PM
Author: wildcatmccane
so the grader never looks at it from the side to get perspective of what he/she could be looking for?

insert beating a dead horse I know.

But then an IF could have something from the side?

Nope.

Yup.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

At great pains we wrote this in the clarity tutorial and a sepcial journal article for exactly this purpose. Here is the link to that article and a summary.
For all of those who are offering advice - please read the article and if there are any suggested improvements then please make them.


The Pricescope community definition of an Eye Clean diamond: No visible inclusions to the unaided eye when viewed from the face up position in daylight equivalent or fluorescent lighting from 6-12 inches (15-30cm) using 20/20 vision.

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/78/1/What-is-an-Eye-Clean-Diamond--.aspx Things to let your vendor know about your parameters for an eye clean diamond:

1. If you can see clearly from less than 8 inches (20cm), or if you are nearsighted, then you should let your vendor know what distance you require for a diamond to be considered eye clean.

2. If you wish your stone to be eye clean from the side or the underside, please tell your vendor. Vendors and labs rarely take this into account when grading clarity.

Approximately 1 in 100 people can see VS2 inclusions, so if this worries you, then buy VS1, or wait a decade till your ability to focus close-up diminishes.

Most grading reports have plots of inclusions (marked in red for internal, and green for external features); they are useful for identification. Often only the main "grade makers" are plotted, and additional inclusions are listed in comments: "pin points not shown" etc. A worrying ''comment'' is "Clouds Not Shown"; a cloud drawn on plots can look so bad that no one would buy the diamond. Clouds are only a problem on SI1 and lower clarity''s if no other inclusion is marked on the plot, i.e. the cloud is the grade maker. Big clouds can dull the diamond. But it is rare for even I1 diamonds to be dulled by inclusions.