Experts: What is wrong with this Princess stone?

[nightswimming]

Report: GIA
Shape: Princess
Carat: 0.94
Color: F
Clarity: VS1
Depth: 71.3
Table: 69
Crown Angle: 32.1
Crown %: 8.3
Pavilion Angle: 59.8
Pavilion %: 59.9
Girdle: Very thin to slightly thick
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: None
Fluorescence: No
Measurements: 5.62-5.40X3.85
Length/Width: 1.04
price $4,000

 

[strmrdr]

Im no expert but look at the girdle plot if it doesnt allready have a chip out of it it soon will.

Also there is almost a 10 degree difference in the angles displayed in the lower right hand diagram.

 

[strmrdr]

.

 

[valeria101]

The variance in agles (circled in red above) is not abnormal, but I do not like that chip either - at all. There is no trace of discount for it either. The angles indeed show potential for good light return, but... I would hate to see a crack in my stone one day!

 

[nightswimming]

well, thank you all very much. that makes a big difference! I will pass this one up! THank you immensely!!!

 

[strmrdr]

valeria101,
Wouldnt the huge angle difference lead to light leakage?
Or is that a non-critical area on princess cuts?
Or are bad cuts just the norm with them?

Glad I was right about the girdle atleast...

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 11/30/2003 2:23:08 AM strmrdr wrote:


Wouldn't the huge angle difference lead to light leakage?
Or is that a non-critical area on princess cuts?
Or are bad cuts just the norm with them?
----------------

I never intended to dismiss your analysis: you are right in a way - huge differences in those angles (or any in symmetrycal positions) would ruin symmetry and perhaps light return. This princess cut has it's girdle plane (the section through the girdle line, whatever its name) slanted. According to my experience, however, these differences are not huge, but rather ordinary among PCs with 'good' or 'very good' symmetry. A 5 degree difference does not create disasters given the small size of the surface in cause.

Wether PCs are worse cuts than RBCs ? I don't know overall statistics, but it seems so. I find it particularly hard to find Princesses with decent (below 70%) depth, above 'good' symmetry', non-huge tables and macroscopic crown hights. So, I guess your third Q in the citation above is right, and being so, weakens (but definitely not dissmisses) the first two...

 

[strmrdr]

Thank you.
I learned something :}

I wasnt worried about getting my analysis dismissed as such.
I was more worried about giving bad advice.
Hence my comment that atleast I was right about the girdle issue.
I would feel real bad if a good deal was passed up because of an
error on my part.

It is sad that there arent more properly cut princess diamonds available.
While I dont care for the looks of them a lot of people do.

 

[pyramid]

Look at the percentage of the girdle 2.6%, maybe it is just that the rest of the girdle is thick.

I am just a consumer here also.



Whoops, see that the girdle description is very thin to slightly thick so disregard what I said. However it is only a very short part of the girdle and is not on a corner of the stone as such.

 

[strmrdr]

I thought about that but..

Girdle: Very thin to slightly thick

From the description above the image.

 

[barry]

Triangle facets minimum to maximum are steep and vary by 9 degrees.
Very good probability that you have serious light leakage here.

Barry
www.superbcert.com

 

[Rhino]

Good points strmrdr. Those varianes would contribute to wacky symmetry and the girdle is the other thing to be concerned with. From my experience 32 degree pavilion angles with 60 degree pavilion angles results in a considerable amount of leakage too. If these people can run the Sarin for you, you may want to ask if their Sarin has the ability to make 3d models as well? With a 3d model we'd be able to give you a better assessment of light return leakage.




Rhino

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Thanks guys for commenting on this diamond

Rhino, Barry... haven't you recommended not to judge fancies based on numbers?!?

In fact this is a really great-looking stone from our expert selection with a nice price ($3,900) for its quality and visual appearance.

More details are here: http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-548687.htm

 

[Rhino]

Greetings Brian,




I wasn't aware that this stone was from you. I don't like knowing where a stone comes from because any criticisms I make, I do not want you to feel that they are directed towards you because I think very highly of you Brian.




I went to the link provided and the idealscope image confirmed exactly what I thought to be true of this stone. You can see the optical results of the numbers and particularly the variances. On the left hand side of that idealscope image, I'm willing to bet that that is the pavilion angle that deviates down to 54 degrees. You may also want to comment on the *very thin* girdle which raised a red flag to the readers here. I have purchased princess cuts in the past that have had very thin girdles if they can be protected from future damage and the stone had outstanding optics. It appears that the *very thin* portion of the girdle is limited to a particular position on the diamond. Is it a corner or a side?




I also realize that it is sometimes better to *see* the subject at hand before a final judgement is made on it too. Brian, can you generate a Sarin file with a 3d image?




Peace,


Rhino

 

[barry]

In answer to the consumer's question and from the supplied photograph and consistent with the extreme variability in the Triangle facets, as noted, there is serious leakage in the Right Quadrant (1-5 P.M.) and even more so in the Left Quadrant (7-10 P.M.), also pale coloration at 12 and 6 O'clock and in the center at the culet which is critical for maximizing light return.

Barry
www.superbcert.com

 

[nightswimming]

Thank you all for your imput. Okay, well how about this one:

.88
G color
vvs1
5.28x5.30
Depth 72.9%
table 60%
girdle med to slightly thick
polish and symmetry good
crown angle 35.8'
crown height 12.6%
Pavil angle 57.5'
pavil depth 55.7%
price $4,000

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

----------------
On 11/30/2003 3:12:25 PM nightswimming wrote:





Thank you all for your imput. Okay, well how about this one:

.88
G color
vvs1
5.28x5.30
Depth 72.9%
table 60%
girdle med to slightly thick
polish and symmetry good
crown angle 35.8'
crown height 12.6%
Pavil angle 57.5'
pavil depth 55.7%
price $4,000
----------------

Nightswimming...Attached is the cut grade for your stone when I put it through the Cut Charts on Dave Atlas's Page also supplied on a link in this forum...

Compared to the other ideal-scope image, this stone looks much better and has less leakage with better symettry..

This looks like a respectable candidate...

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

NS..Here are the B-scope results for your stone along with the complete megascope data...




BTW...Barry puts out some of the finest princess cut stones on the Market...

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

 

[strmrdr]

I like the latest one much better.

 

[pricescope]

The first diamond, however, looks like a better deal money-wise? The first and the second stones are 26% and 11% off Rap correspondingly.

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Let's set the record straight!
It seems that in this case my fellow “experts” have not read the sarin report or interpreted it correctly.

Let me explain why!

 

[BrianTheCutter]

First of all let’s examine the certificate. Please note the comments on the certificate where it notes “Indented natural” This is the focus of the issue at hand

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Let’s examine the photographs.
All four sides of the girdle have been photographed - note that the girdle is very consistent around the stone

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Side 1

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Side 2

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Side 3

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Look at picture #4 in the left corner of the girdle there is a small dark mark. This is one of the indented naturals which is plotted on the GIA document.

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Here are the pictures of the indented naturals - see pictures a and b.

 

[BrianTheCutter]

Note how the girdle thins here at the corner because of this natural!