Expert Advice on Burmese Sapphire Needed

[simplysplendid]

Hi all,

I came across this beautiful looking sapphire with the following GRS certificate:

Identification: Natural Sapphire
Weight: 4.34ct
Color: Vivid Blue (GRS Type "Royal Blue")
Comment: No indication of thermal treatment
Origin: Burma (Myanmar)

This sapphire has a sleepy look, somewhat resembling a kashmir sapphire. I will try to post the picture on the certificate here.

My questions are:
-Is it rather unusual for a burmese sapphire to have the sleepy look? It does not have the transparent look to it.
-Which location in Burma will produce a sapphire like this?
-Is the colour "vivid blue" or "royal blue" desirable?
-What price range would a sapphire like this fall under?
-Is it desirable for a burmese sapphire to resemble (somewhat) a kashmir sapphire?

Thank you.

 

[T L]

Date: 11/4/2008 3:39:57 AM
Author:simplysplendid
Hi all,

I came across this beautiful looking sapphire with the following GRS certificate:

Identification: Natural Sapphire
Weight: 4.34ct
Color: Vivid Blue (GRS Type 'Royal Blue')
Comment: No indication of thermal treatment
Origin: Burma (Myanmar)

This sapphire has a sleepy look, somewhat resembling a kashmir sapphire. I will try to post the picture on the certificate here.

My questions are:
-Is it rather unusual for a burmese sapphire to have the sleepy look? It does not have the transparent look to it.
-Which location in Burma will produce a sapphire like this?
-Is the colour 'vivid blue' or 'royal blue' desirable?
-What price range would a sapphire like this fall under?
-Is it desirable for a burmese sapphire to resemble (somewhat) a kashmir sapphire?

Thank you.

I am not a sapphire expert, but the silk in kashmir sapphires helps give them that velvety pure vivid blue that is so highly prized. After Kashmir, I think (not sure) that Burma sapphires are most prized (someone correct me if I'm wrong). To find a 4 carat Burmese sapphire that resembles a Kashmir sapphire, AND is untreated, with a GRS cert, I would say WOW! I would also think it would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of at least $10,000/ct and that's not retail prices I'm quoting here.

I'm sure some other experts on sapphires will chime in on this and give better information, but of the sapphires I've seen, I think the best ones today come out of Burma since Kashmir is producing so little. Be careful to make sure the silk or sleepyness in the stone isn't so much that it's opaque or not lively. I don't know what "royal blue" is, but you always have to be careful of sapphires being opaque or dark.

Take a look at this thread as well.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/grs-sapphire-color-classification.32306/

 

[Sagebrush]

Simplysplendid,

The quotes from the GRS grading report are all good comments. However, that is the report not the stone. True sleepiness as opposed to turbidity is rare n a Burma sapphire. It is all about the beauty of the affect not to mention the other characteristics of the particular gem.

 

[simplysplendid]

Thanks Tourmaline_lover and Richard for your response!

Richard, would you please explain what turbidity in a gemstone is? Is it a bad thing? If it is true sleepiness, how much would you reckon this sapphire will cost?

 

[Sagebrush]

Simplysplendid,

Simply put, turbidity is a lack of transparency. Impossible to price a stone from a grading report.

Best,

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi Richard, thank you for reverting..

Is there any source that you can direct me to that could guide an amateur like me to be able to tell one from the other (sleepiness from turbidity)?

 

[pyramid]

You would need to take the stone to an Independent Appraiser or make the purchase dependent upon getting an independant appraisal. I believe Richard Sherwood on this forum has some expertise in sapphires.

 

[simplysplendid]

Thanks Pyramid. Unfortunately at where I live, the jewelers/customers do not practise engaging an appraiser before purchasing and there is only a handful, if any at all, around.

 

[Sagebrush]

SimplySplendid,

If you don't know the product, know the person you are doing business with. Jewelers are often reluctant to sell a stone subject to another jeweler's appraisal. Most of us have been low-balled, that is, the appraiser, who is also a retail jeweler acts like a jilted jealous suitor. "I can get it for you cheaper." That usually sums it up.

You go to the doctor. He tells you you need a triple bypass. Do you believe him? Is he telling the truth or looking for cash to finance his vacation home in Florida? Well you can get another opinion, but sooner or later, unless you go to medical school, you are going to have to trust someone. That is a decision we make every day and our skill in evaluating those we do business with defines, to a large extent, our success in life.

How do you decide? One clue: Does he stock lots of sapphire? Most jewelers know diamonds but little else. If he doesn't stock the stone he doesn't know the stone. By the way, the sapphire chapter of my book, Secrets, is a free read on the web.

Best of luck,

 

[simplysplendid]

Date: 11/11/2008 6:51:07 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
SimplySplendid,

If you don''t know the product, know the person you are doing business with. Jewelers are often reluctant to sell a stone subject to another jeweler''s appraisal. Most of us have been low-balled, that is, the appraiser, who is also a retail jeweler acts like a jilted jealous suitor. ''I can get it for you cheaper.'' That usually sums it up.

You go to the doctor. He tells you you need a triple bypass. Do you believe him? Is he telling the truth or looking for cash to finance his vacation home in Florida? Well you can get another opinion, but sooner or later, unless you go to medical school, you are going to have to trust someone. That is a decision we make every day and our skill in evaluating those we do business with defines, to a large extent, our success in life.

How do you decide? One clue: Does he stock lots of sapphire? Most jewelers know diamonds but little else. If he doesn''t stock the stone he doesn''t know the stone. By the way, the sapphire chapter of my book, Secrets, is a free read on the web.

Best of luck,

I read the content of your book to see what it includes and I must say this will be a really useful book for me. I will be off to the bookshop on Thursday to get a copy, Richard. I am so honoured that you are even responding to my thread!

As for my jeweler, I heart my jeweler, best in where I live (that''s Singapore) in my opinion with the rest of the jewelers way way below them. They are the only ones that I know that when I ask to see untreated rubies, they can show me over 30 stones on the spot. Not only do they carry lots of the usual diamonds (huge ones too) in pink, white and yellow, they have the usual sapphires and rubies and emerald in fine quality up to auction quality sizes. They recently sold a 8 carat untreated GRS certified pigeon blood ruby as well as a 17ct heat sapphire! There''s a beautiful 7 carat vivid green tsavorite there currently, lots of fine imperial jade, glowy ruby sugarloafs and lots of luscious pearls! They also carry a range of other gemstones such as rubellite in sizes of up to 20-30ct, georgeous deep blue aquamarine in large sizes. In a nutshell, they carry stuffs that I don''t see in other brick and mortar jewelry shops. When I''m there I wish I can print money

. The jeweler did mention that this sapphire looks very similar to kashmir but mentioned that a real kashmir will cost many times more. The usual sapphires, the crystal type are much easier for me to judge what is good and desirable. This is the first time that I have encountered a sapphire that is a little less "clear", if you know what I mean.

 

[Sagebrush]

Simplysplendid,

thanks for the kind words. in 06 I did a post on my blog: GemWise that shows an image of an almost colorless Kashmir sapphire that has the glow. "Quality, Rarity and Value, Pricing the Crème de la crème of Gems Part II" I have been talking with Pricescope about posting some of these articles and I am hoping we can get that done in the near future. You should also be able to find other images of Kashmirs on the web to use for comparison

The quality the sleepiness of a Kashmir has a twofold effect:

1. The submicroscopic particles called sugar serve to scatter the light around the interior of the gem reducing extinction (the blackness inside the gem) which is caused by off-axis refraction.

2. At its best the affect is a soft beautiful glow. If it just looks foggy or dull that is not a plus.

It is necessary to compare a lot of sapphire to get a sense of the plus and minuses but beauty is the key.

 

[Linda W]

Thank you for your posts Richard. I always enjoy reading your wise words.


Linda

 

[elmo]

Some random thoughts:

The very best thing you can do is look at lots and lots of fine sapphires. Most folks are not as fortunate as you are to have a dealer who "can show me over 30 (unheated rubies) on the spot". Take advantage of this. Take a few of your favorites home for a day and get to know them. After you've seen 30 nice stones, you'll know pretty quickly if something could be the one.

I don't think anyone has directly said this so I will. "Somewhat resembling a Kashmir" sounds like gem dealer spin to me. Or lipstick on a pig. Something to potentially divert your attention from an obvious flaw, especially if the price is uncharacteristically low. Reminds me of an otherwise beautiful AGTA certed Burma stone I saw once, that had a large rutile scuff mark almost in the middle of the table. The lab could probably have IDed origin from 10 feet away

.

Someone said $10K/carat. No way. Richard is not the cheapest dealer by any means and had a beautiful 4 carat Burma stone until not too long ago for much less than that. It's been a year since I looked but I'm guessing you could find an extra-fine Burma 4 carater for half that. Availability is apparently down from 2 years ago but so is the number of folks looking.

Go take a look at the killer 6 carat Sri Lanka stone on Richard's web site

. I'd rather have that than most any Burma blue.

 

[Sagebrush]

Elmo,

"Someone said $10K/carat. No way. Richard is not the cheapest dealer by any means and had a beautiful 4 carat Burma stone until not too long ago for much less than that. It''s been a year since I looked but I''m guessing you could find an extra-fine Burma 4 carater for half that."

Elmo, I am hurt, "not the cheapest dealer"? Well, perhaps that is my reputation, but consider the distance between a gem in the top 10% of quality and a gem in the top 5% is very far and very expensive. The closer you get to the absolute finest the greater the percentage price increase. Still the 4 carat cushion that you refer to, sold for under 10k a carat but sourced in Burma I have paid more than 10k per carat. It all depends upon the yawning gap of 5%.

 

[elmo]

It is why I try buy somewhere below that 95th percentile, to find the right balance between quality and value, and still be pleased. In a way best-of-best is easy, finding the right compromises can be challenging and personal.

 

[Sagebrush]

Elmo,

Good plan!

 

[Harriet]

Date: 11/13/2008 11:34:24 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Elmo,

'Someone said $10K/carat. No way. Richard is not the cheapest dealer by any means and had a beautiful 4 carat Burma stone until not too long ago for much less than that. It's been a year since I looked but I'm guessing you could find an extra-fine Burma 4 carater for half that.'

Elmo, I am hurt, 'not the cheapest dealer'? Well, perhaps that is my reputation, but consider the distance between a gem in the top 10% of quality and a gem in the top 5% is very far and very expensive. The closer you get to the absolute finest the greater the percentage price increase. Still the 4 carat cushion that you refer to, sold for under 10k a carat but sourced in Burma I have paid more than 10k per carat. It all depends upon the yawning gap of 5%.

Richard,
I adhere to the old adage: "You get what you pay for (assuming it's a fair transaction, of course)." The 5% gap would bother me to no end. If I can't afford the finest specimen of a gem, I'll wait till my ship comes in.

 

[elmo]

Going from 8+ to 9 to 10 there is also a principle of "diminishing returns" that applies. And it depends on what we''re talking about...unheated Burma sapphire in this case. I cannot compete for ruby and sapphire with oil barons investment bankers and royalty...and I just can''t see how a very beautiful, carefully-chosen almost-9 ruby or sapphire is going to "bother (someone) to no end".

 

[Harriet]

Elmo,
No disrespect meant. It''s just one of my idiosyncrasies.

 

[Harriet]

I should state that I''m not waiting for perfection (e.g. I embrace interesting inclusions). I''m looking for overall beauty.

 

[Sagebrush]

Elmo,

Early in my career is a goldsmith, a local Realtor came to me about purchasing a gemstone. I talked to him about range of qualities. He decided he wanted a synthetic. His reasoning: "If no one can tell the difference, what difference does it make." My answer; "You will know." Seems to me this exchange says a great deal about our differing points of view. Neither point of view is "wrong" in any real sense.

The difference between a 9 and a 10. You and Harriet will know and to one of you, it will matter.


Happy Thanksgiving,