Experience at a wholesale jeweler, is this shady?

[Stevesanders808]

Sorry, I know these will be repeat questions for most of the experts here. Went to a local wholesale jeweler where my friends mom works. They do mostly insurance work and very little retail sales. Place looked really crummy inside. Talked with the owner, priced out a round .91 karat diamond, SI, I for $2800. (sorry, can''t remember other specs) What worried me a little is when I asked what certification it had. He said none of his stones were certified, after I put a deposit he sends them out and at that point they get certified. No mention what certification he used though.

Does this sound shady?
Thanks!

 

[AprilBaby]

So he quotes you a price and you have no proof that it is what he says.....and he bases his price on....

 

[Stevesanders808]

Exactly April. Shouldn''t he have some type of certification (before) the sale? Playing devils advocate, how do I know any diamond matches up with the certification/paperwork, even diamonds with GIA etc.? Just asking, I am very new to this as you can probably tell and what to get my girlfriend an accurate engagement ring.

Thanks!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Yes, that''s a backward deal. You can''t pay the price for an I SI1 diamond if it might come back as a J SI2. I doubt he would want to refund you the difference.

There are lots more ways to buy a stone than that - and you get to be sure of what you are buying!

If you had a stone with a certificate, you can take both to an independent appraiser to make sure that they match. I personally wouldn''t buy from anyone that does business like that.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/25/2009 9:09:52 PM
Author:Stevesanders808
Sorry, I know these will be repeat questions for most of the experts here. Went to a local wholesale jeweler where my friends mom works. They do mostly insurance work and very little retail sales. Place looked really crummy inside. Talked with the owner, priced out a round .91 karat diamond, SI, I for $2800. (sorry, can't remember other specs) What worried me a little is when I asked what certification it had. He said none of his stones were certified, after I put a deposit he sends them out and at that point they get certified. No mention what certification he used though.

Does this sound shady?
Thanks!

tell my "uncle Freddy" the diamond wholesaler to return your deposit, NOW!!.

 

[tonyc2387]

people really, actually, DO "business" like that in real life?

run away. fast. far. and then keep running.

more seriously... a .91ct I SI ...err, say SI2 for sake of argument... "diamond" selling for $2800 is like selling you "oceanfront" property in arizona. yes, it is THAT misleading and shady.

sorry steve... best advice is to steer clear from any sort of "friend of ______" situation, go read a few articles here and at vendors like good old gold, and poke around to see the types of diamonds that are routinely suggested. i''m pretty confident you''ll come to appreciate exactly how shady this is quite quickly...

 

[WinkHPD]

If you went to a wholesaler, it would not at all surprise me that he has many diamonds without papers. In the old days, say ten years or so ago, it was more uncommon to have a paper on a diamond than to not have one. With the explosion of the Internet, it has become more and more vital to have the paper, as it provides a way for you, the buyer, to know that I, the seller am not puffing up the value of my product. The paper gives a benchmark, so to speak.

Many wholesalers still work this way, and so do many retailers.

I was actually the exception in the late 1970's when I started getting paper on all of my diamonds as I was constantly disagreeing with my suppliers about the grading that they were using. I did it for me, as I did not want to pay for an F-VS1 that I thought was a G or H VS2. My clients for the most part could have cared less.

That is still true today. My in house clients will look at the ASET view of the diamond in the actual ASET tool as I am using that as part of my presentation to show them how and why the diamonds that I am selling are more attractive than the ones they are seeing in the mall, but 90-95% of my in house clients never see or even ask about the paper or which lab graded the diamond. Every year I find papers that were not delivered with the diamond and send them out to my clients who often ask what it is and why do they need it.

It is the public's lack of knowledge about diamond grading in general and good/bad paper mills in particular that allow the second, third and fourth tier labs to prosper. Personally I have more problem with a wholesaler using paper mills that both he and I know to be worthless than I do with a wholesaler who uses no paper.

On the web well over 99% of the diamonds I sell have paper, good paper too, thank you very much, as there is not really a way for you to become so comfortable with me that you never think to ask about it.

So, while I think you are wise to want and ask for paper, I think also that you need to be sure that if the paper comes back lower that expected, you have the right to rescind the purchase.

I just wanted to chime in that the wholesaler is not out of line not to have the paper. It sounds as if he is one of the old style wholesalers, although it shows that even in the "old days" there were those who did not honor the supposed lines in the distribution chain.

For an internet buyer it is not safe or wise to buy without the paper, and frankly, since I myself demand good paper since it seems most suppliers have terminal cases of loose grading syndrome when paper is not involed, it is not wise for you to buy in person without paper either unless you are yourself qualified to grade the diamond you are looking at.

Just my thoughts on a sunny Thanksgiving morning.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

A retailer can, of course, use whatever décor they want to convince you that they’re a good place to shop but make no mistake, they’re a retailer no matter how sloppy the office and no matter what it says on the sign. It’s easy to tell the difference. If they’re willing to sell stones one at a time directly to the end consumer, that’s a retailer. It’s easy enough to identify one by simply asking if they’ll sell to you. It makes no difference at all even if they do have other clients that they sell things for resale. The deal that counts is the one they’re offering YOU, not those other people.

As far as the deal for paperwork goes, I suggest you avoid this sort of thing because there are so many other places you can get a properly documented stone faster and for less grief but if you must, make sure you specify the lab to be used (GIA or AGSL only), ALL of the details including cutting, and have in writing an agreement that if it doesn’t come back as expected you owe nothing for the lab service, shipping or anything else and are under no obligation to take the stone, even at a discount. If you want to negotiate a new deal on the then papered stone you are welcome to do so but you should have the option to walk away from the deal without losing anything but some time. If it comes back exactly as expected or better, you pay the full asking price, plus the lab fees and shipping. Your deposit should be sufficient to cover the lab fees but not the price of the stone. Here's the GIA fee structure. Sound fair?

(betcha they decline this offer)

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver