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Excellent's everywhere, now onto HCA?

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dougieeddie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
14
Hey guys, I finally found something that is perfectly in my price range and meets all the requirements I'm looking for at Tiffany's. I managed to get the gem report and here is what came back:

Stats:
Color: I
Carat: 1.16
Cut: *Brilliant
Clarity: VS2
Symmetry: Ex
Precision: Ex
Polish: Ex

Measurements: 6.70 - 6.75 x 4.17 mm
Depth Percentage: 62%
Table Size Percentage: 58%
Crown height Percentage: 15%
Crown Angle: 35.2
Pavilion Depth Percentage: 43.6%
Pavilion Angle: 41.1%
Girdle: Med to Slightly Thick
Cutlet: None

I'm not at all a pro at this, but I'm learning as I go. I'm past the C's, went deeper into the Sym/Precision/Polish, now I'm digging into HCA. The ring places in the Very Good HCA, which isn't fantastic compared to everything being in the excellent category, I'm stumped. What's your thoughts? My eyes seem to think it's the one and before researching HCA I was a lot more indifferent.

Thanks,

-Donnie
 
Donnie, generally with a 35 crown angle, it is generally better to have a pavilion angle below 41.0. Any chance you have an idealscope? Because that would by far be the best way to determine if there is leakage or not. My tendency is to say the stone is probably okay, but I know when spending that kind of money, you want to get the best cut stone possible.
 
Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately I do not have access to an idealscope and by the time it ships the diamond will no longer be on hold. I know Tiffany's doesn't carry these in store, so I'm a bit out of luck it seems.

Is that the one thing that stands out which sets the HCA in the 3's? 35.2 crown to 41.1 pav angle may lead to light leakage? I'm curious if there is anything else that seems off.

EDIT - wow did some testing and if I bring the pavilion to 40.9 the results change drastically.
 
Numbers could work if the lower half size is larger, ard 80%. Or you can just get an idealscope, learn how to use it and check it out yourself at the store when the stone arrives.
 
Wow, totally missed uploading those numbers

Lower half length percentage: 79%
Star Length Percentage: 53%

Now I'm in over my head, I did some reading on blacks/star length etc and I'm lost haha. That's all the stats I have now, without an idealscope I guess I'm out of luck for checking on leakage if these stats aren't enough?
 
Gosh, tough situation. Does she very much want a real Tiffany ring?
 
Yes, Tiffany's is it. Not sure if that calls for a happy or sad face, but it is what it is. I've been searching for a ring in this category (I/VS2/Ex/Ex/Ex) for a while and the engagement is right around the corner. I didn't get into the nitty gritty on proportions because I was naive enough to believe the sales pitch at Tiffany's on "brilliant" cut quality.

Do the numbers put it on the brink of could-be okay, could-not be okay?

EDIT - I've been reading through https://www.pricescope.com/journal/do_pavilion_mains_drive_light_return_modern_round_brilliant

It sounds like I'm right at the mercy of the danger zone if I'm reading this correctly:

"Let’s use 35 degree crown angle, 56% table and 80% lower girdles (this combination, when combined with the right pavilion angle, is predicted to get the top grade in both AGS and GIA systems).
Between 41.15 and 41.25 in pavilion angle there is a huge jump in leakage with a 35-degree crown angle.
41.15 with a 35-degree crown angle left and 41.25 with a 35-degree crown angle right."
 
Listen, Tiffany's doesn't sell bad diamonds. If we were using an alphabetical grading scale, I'd say a hearts and arrows diamond from one of the top vendors here gets an A+. Tiffany diamonds, to me, seem to rate around a B+ to A- to A. So they are very nice, just not necessarily the highest cut quality. My current set was for an anniversary, but I went with a Tiffany repro setting with a great cut diamond and I got a real Tiffany wedding band. But I understand the appeal of Tiffany. If that is what is most important to her, she probably would never know anything about the cut anyway. So you may as well just get it!

(You're sure that she wouldn't rather have a larger, more perfect stone in a Tiffany reproduction setting, right? How much is this ring?)
 
Good point, I just feel a bit hurt on the inside paying the 25% Tiffany's premium for a potential non A quality diamond. How can they call it brilliant cut? The ring is ~$12,500. Is there anything I can do in the mean time to double check the leakage (if in fact that's all I'm worried about based on the stats) without an idealscope?

A Tiffany replication isn't an option. It's one of those childhood dream things.
 
The price isn't too bad. A similar stone runs about $8200-8500 (ideal cut) and platinum setting about $1800.

Is this ring being sent to your local Tiffany's or are you ordering it to be sent to you directly? I am just wondering what city you are in and whether there is an independent appraiser near you who could check the stone with an idealscope.

Have they checked company-wide for all the 1 ct. I VS2 rings?
 
I'm in Toronto, Canada which makes it even tougher, ordering in new rings takes ~4 weeks due to the restrictions at the border. It's an interesting predicament. I'll look up independent appraisers since it sounds like the idealscope is the only solution I have. It sounds like this diamond could go either way, oh the joy :)
 
Okay, you may not be able to access an idealscope through an appraiser because all don't use them. Is the ring being sent to the local Tiffany's for you to look at? It seems like you have plenty of time to get an idealscope sent to you if it will take 4 weeks for the ring to arrive in Toronto?
 
My apologies, the ring has taken ~4 weeks to get to me. It will be here on Monday, so if I change my mind and choose another ring it will take another 4 weeks. The ring is being sent to my house which is why I'm thinking an appraiser might be the best bet. If there are other ideas I'm down for them. Is there something you had in mind that the physical Tiffany's store could do? I'm guessing just comparing the sparkle to the other rings is all that I can do without the tools

Again, thanks for all your help. It's incredible how valuable this community is. I only wish I dug into the cut details a little more when I started my search... sigh. Let's say we have some leakage, would that be the definition of a VG cut vs Ideal? Tiffany's has set my blood pressure up to a whole new level haha
 
Ohhhh! I see! It is about to arrive!

This chart should help you understand a little about how stones will look with an idealscope:

http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp

The gray/white areas indicate leakage.

Do you happen to know if the diamond has a GIA report in addition to the Tiffany report? Some do. I haven't entered your numbers into the HCA, but I'll do it now and see how where it falls in the AGS/GIA area.
 
Selected: 62% depth, 58% table, 35.2° crown angle, 41.1° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.



Factor Grade
Light Return: Very Good
Fire: Good
Scintillation: Good
Spread
or diameter for weight: Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.6 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

We say that stones below 2 are in the safe zone and likely well cut, and those between 2 and 3 are worthy of more examination. I am not thrilled with a 3.6. And of the chart, it does fall in the GIA Excellent area but not the AGS Ideal cut area. It probably has some leakage.
 
Bummer, so when it gets here is my only way of verification the idealscope or is there a manual way I can tell? Maybe through comparison? It's interesting, even a GIA excellent can still have dimensions that lead to leakage, crazyness.
 
:wavey: I have a Tiffany diamond, a smaller one than what you are looking at. Tiffany gets in a range of stones that they then look at and then re-pick the ones that they like to be in their store.

My hubby didn't know a lot about diamonds when he bought it, and the pre selection that Tiffany did with his lack of diamond knowledge, is why he went there.

I love my diamond it is very sparkly, small but sparkly. ::)

You sound like you know so much more about diamonds then my hubby did, all this talk about scopes and angles and stars and leaking. Its a bit strange you bought a diamond 4 weeks ago and panic so much now at the last minute.

If it is important to your girlfriend to have a Tiffany ring why second guess everything. Just make her happy.
 
dougieeddie|1343433901|3241698 said:
Bummer, so when it gets here is my only way of verification the idealscope or is there a manual way I can tell? Maybe through comparison? It's interesting, even a GIA excellent can still have dimensions that lead to leakage, crazyness.
Click to expand...

I can't really think of another option unless you can locate an appraiser with an idealscope. I was just on another thread with someone looking at two stones that scored over 5 on the HCA, so suddenly this one doesn't seem so bad! But I just hate to see you pay top dollar and not get a truly ideal cut stone. I do understand the time issues with having to wait another 4 weeks. You almost may as well go for it unless they can provide you with the specs on other stones in that price range.
 
Seems unfortunate to second guess yourself after paying 12500 four weeks ago (Tiffany and Co would never have sent it to your home address otherwise). But if it really bothers you that much I'm sure that they will be more lenient on the return policy being that you have the four week delay at the border.

I didn't know idealscopes worked on setted diamonds but you sound like you know more about them than me :))
 
Post pictures too when the ring arrives! Especially with the tiff cert and the face up stone in the box ::) People can make comments and as its arriving so soon and maybe able to help ease your mind. Definitely post pics of the tiff cert and stone together...very common to do that on PS!
 
Good suggestion! The ring came in, here are the pictures. I tried to only use natural lighting and keep it in the box (as you guys said). I also took some shots holding it so you can get a better idea, it's tough trying to get a good shot while it's still in the box.

Thoughts??? I tried to upload them and paste the link. As you can tell, I'm an excelling photographer :) PS. I tried to use the image uploader but I can't seem to figure it out

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/img0155wl.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/img0158pt.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/img0166en.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/img0168ut.jpg/
 
It looks like a beautiful ring. I think that Tiffany uses their own parameters when selecting diamonds but you usually don't find a dog in the bunch.

She's a lucky gal to be getting a Tiffany's ring - what are your thoughts about it?
 
It looks really big! You must be happy when you saw it?

You forgot to post the cert! The tiff cert should have all the proportions posters will need to help you out, they didn't used to but these days I think they do :))
 
The ring looks great, but I'm looking for quality instead of size. I'd rather have the smaller EX cut diamond than the bigger VG/G cut. It's tough to judge since I don't have comparisons with me.

PS - All the original specs in the cert were included in post 1. The HCA came back with a 3.6 because of a 41.1 pav / 35.2 crown (not ideal in AGS ratios, but slides in under GIA EX). It's definitely in the danger (VG cut) zone and without an idealscope, I'm on the fence! I need PS' help!
 
Well, if it is definitely going to be a Tiffany's ring, you have one of two choices. Either choose this ring with your eyes or send it back and tell the sales associate what your ideal specs are and let them find you another ring in that range. I realize it takes time but they can search their databases for stones that fall within that range. You are spending a lot of money and are also spending on the name brand. Don't be shy about asking for exactly what you want!

Let me ask you this though: going on looks alone, if you did not know about the numbers as you do, would this look like a beautiful diamond to you?
 
I think everyone on PS would love to see an updated tiffany cert. They never used to list all their dimensions on the cert and the gia certs didnt even have the diagram, so they were modified GIA certs. these days the tiff cert provides additional info and also there can be sometimes slight differences between the GIA and tiff cert (i believe). There was a post a couple weeks ago discussing what info was included so if you could post the tiff cert and the GIA cert I think it could be interesting for people to see and also compare between the two.

I know you posted specs, but more info is always better :))

Also as you know IVS2s close to a carat are hard to get as they are the 'entry level' tiffany ring so to speak. Some will have multiple holds on them in shops from all over the US and most likely a shop assistant has to keep a look out and pounce on one as soon as it leaves manufacturing. No doubt they will do that for you again though. My comment was for how big it looked for 1.16 your girlfriend must have tiny fingers!

I think as its so important to your girlfriend thats what you have to weigh up. Would love to see the extra info too as it is so interesting they have changed their policy :)) they've historically had a reputation for sparkly beautiful rings.
 
I think it looks good. I don't really see any leakage in the middle. No ring of death, so to speak.
 
Wow Tiffany diamonds seem really overpriced for the quality. Buy her something from an online retailer and tell her its from Tiffany :mrgreen: Better quality for a lot less money! Its a win-win :bigsmile:
 
Thanks for the feedback so far, I'm going to take it into the store and compare it to other rings. It's the only way I feel like I can get a good opinion without an idealscope. Plus, I'll crunch some numbers and try to compare it against some other diamonds scoring below 2 on the HCA. Any other feedback?
 
Post the tiff cert and modified GIA, im inclined to think its not even real and thats more of a concern...can easily verify for you once you post it. also canada tiff won't exchange for you as you bought it from the us and they may not have an IVS2 in store.

Id be more worried you dont have a real tiff ring or diamond on your hands till i see the certificates. both of them.

You may have spent 12500 on a scam, as the carat weight looks disproprtionate too.

Be more concerned about that than anything else at the moment.

Which store did you deal with? Sales person? What postal method and insurance did they use?
Do you have email proof from the tiffany staff?

Sounds highly suspicious and it looks the wrong size.

You could really embarass yourself going in with an iphone laptop and asking to check or their top end merchandise and certificates with a fake tiffany ring. so sort out if its authentic first.
 
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