Etsy question

[LightBright]

I need advice. It’s over a trivial issue but I’m still puzzled by it. I bought a colored stone sterling ring for $100 on Etsy from a vendor that I didn’t realize had a No Return policy.

It was listed as a pink tourmaline. It looked pink, vibrant, translucent and “interestingly included“ in the photos. When I got it, it was actually a ruby (cabochon). I am pretty sure it is glass filled because of a waxy kind of opaque appearance and a very glassy pristine surface. The interesting translucency and inclusions aren’t visible in most light. It is highly fluorescent: bright reddish pink under UV. It looks muddy brown purple pink and opaque in most light. In the direct sun it is pretty, just like the photos.

When I tried to return it, the vendor reminded me of the No Returns policy and said she would give me a 10% discount on future orders but no return.
I sent her a factual description saying why I thought this was a glass filled ruby, photos of the true muddy brown purplish color and the bright red flouro shot. I said I didn’t really want a glass filled ruby (I wanted a tourmaline). No more responses. I sent her another message that said I would be opening up a dispute with Etsy, but if she wished to resolve I could offer her a $25 restocking fee. No response.

My question if you got this far is: should I just chalk this up to a learning experience for me, maybe feel like I’m helping someone who might need money by keeping the ring which I don’t want, or actually do an Etsy Dispute? I know people are struggling out there but I’m really sad I feel played. My husband says the stone actually does look like her photos a little bit, it’s not the far off, but purpler (Which I do not want!). Because I’m neurotic about heavy metals, I do not want a potentially lead filled stone in my possession nor do I want to gift it.

Do I play hardball, or do I let this dog lie? Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[marymm]

I feel for you -- but you are just guessing it is a glass-filled ruby -- without objective proof by a reputable lab (or even your local gem & mineral society) substantiating your contention it is not a Tourmaline and thus you received a misrepresented item, I don't see grounds to dispute the transaction.

eta: FWIW, it could be a mixed-color Tourmaline cabochon, muddy green and pink -- chrome green, pink rubellite, and other Tourmaline colors can be fluorescent

 

[LightBright]

I feel for you -- but you are just guessing it is a glass-filled ruby -- without objective proof by a reputable lab (or even your local gem & mineral society) substantiating your contention it is not a Tourmaline and thus you received a misrepresented item, I don't see grounds to dispute the transaction.

eta: FWIW, it could be a mixed-color Tourmaline cabochon, muddy green and pink -- chrome green, pink rubellite, and other Tourmaline colors can be fluorescent

Actually, Tourmalines don’t fluoresce bright pink, like rubies. I’ve never seen anything fluoresce like a ruby, but a ruby. Also color was quite misrepresented to be clean pink, not purple pink.

Black, Orange, Blue and Green Tourmalines

Color in Tourmaline gems is directly related to magnetism. The levels of magnetic attraction of various Tourmaline color varieties are compared.

www.gemstonemagnetism.com

 

[minousbijoux]

I have to agree with @marymm. The facts that 1) you're not sure and have no proof to offer the seller; 2) there is a no returns policy; 3) it is etsy and unfortunately, there is inherent risk in that; and 4) it was $100 - and you can't expect a lot for that, mean if it were me, I'd walk away.

 

[LightBright]

Thanks so much.

I’m leaning toward walking away. I suspect I would need a professional appraisal for Etsy to believe me…

So, burning question for my own reference, calling something a tourmaline when it really is a ruby is not misrepresention?

Does anyone think a tourmaline would fluoresce like this? I’m cross-posting in color stones to see if anyone there has any insights into tourmaline fluorescence, because I’m a geek.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Of course it’s a misrepresentation. But proof! It costs $70 for a gem ID from AGL for an unmounted stone, $85 for mounted. You won’t get that back unless it’s a ‘nice’ vendor. That’s the cheapest proof I know of.

I have asked if a stone fluoresces, and the vendor Said ‘extremely.’ The said stones had absolutely no fluorescence, and the written description got my money back from PayPal. A work-around for the next time.

 

[MMtwo]

I wonder if you dropped the stone by a local pawn shop and had them use their equipment and snap a shot for the dispute.

 

[Mreader]

I would dispute it. The fluor is enough to prove that it's not what she said it was. The lack of response is also very annoying. If Etsy doesn't back you up and you paid with a cc then go with your cc company.

 

[LilAlex]

So you are pretty sure that they sold you a crummy ruby instead of a crummy tourmaline?

Was there any written guarantee that what you were getting was correctly identified, was not synthetic, and was untreated? This vendor probably just gets a big plastic bag of them from China twice a year -- highly unlikely that these are individually-sourced stones painstakingly paired with mountings, etc.

To me, this a "buyer beware" like shopping at a flea market or "gem faire." At this price-point, it's plastic until proven otherwise. I may be in the minority here.

 

[LightBright]

So you are pretty sure that they sold you a crummy ruby instead of a crummy tourmaline?

Was there any written guarantee that what you were getting was correctly identified, was not synthetic, and was untreated? This vendor probably just gets a big plastic bag of them from China twice a year -- highly unlikely that these are individually-sourced stones painstakingly paired with mountings, etc.

To me, this a "buyer beware" like shopping at a flea market or "gem faire." At this price-point, it's plastic until proven otherwise. I may be in the minority here.

Fair enough, your opinion is good. I am super naive I guess. This was bought from a boutique vintage vendor where each piece is vintage/unique/nice stuff. I thought the vendor must know what she was selling as she called it a pink tourmaline ring. She said in print it looked better in real life.

I knew it could be any type of stone. I figured $100 was a decent price for a preowned silver ring, with a highly included/possibly unstable or damaged pink tourmaline, not cheap but not overpriced. (I naively assumed Etsy products are all returnable, whoops!)

What I didn’t count on from the photos was (brand new shiny surface) glass filled bluish-red ruby. I would have been thrilled with a rough, damaged included pretty color natural old stone.

But not a ruby recently baked in lead, which I suspect it is. The LEAD BAKING is the issue with me, I now have to throw out. And, it’s an ugly color. (Interestingly, this stone is a rock star and cannot take a photo that’s not vibrant and fantastic in photos but it’s clouded, waxy bluish in real life.)

I sound spoiled, but I think the vendor knew what it was, pitched it as part of her store, and I just didn’t realize there wasn’t a return policy. This is on me, but somehow it seems like a “gotcha” on their part. I literally offered her a $25 restocking fee to take it back….no answer.

 

[luckygreen317]

I am sorry you are dealing with this and it’s the principal of misrepresentation that would bother me. If I felt taken advantage of, I am the type of person that would argue over $. I would personally take the advice given earlier to find a pawn shop or jeweler who could do you a favor by testing the stone.

I recently went through something similar on an eBay purchase. I bought “two” 18 kt white gold hidalgo stacking bands. The price was really good for 2, which should have been my first red flag. I received them and immediately knew one was fake. No hallmark, no 18t white gold stamp and the matching bands were a different weight. (I have a scale). The seller had a “no return” policy. I emailed her with my suspicion one was not authentic. Long story short, I had facts to prove my claim. I was sent a return label and received 100% of my money back.

 

[chere]

I’d ask a local pawn shop to test it, take a pic, and file a dispute.

I've filed a dispute and Etsy refunded the amount.

 

[telephone89]

IMO fraud is fraud. (or misrepresentation) Whether you paid $5 or $5000 you should be getting what youre supposed to. Just because it isn't breaking the bank doesn't mean you have to suck it up and deal. I like the pawn shop idea, and most credit cards have consumer protection if you purchased using a cc, may be able to go that route too.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Start by shining a bright torch into the stone, if it is lead glass filled then you may be able to see some bubbles along the filled in fischers. Even if it is a cheap ruby it may not be lead glass filled -- the fish tank gravel quality rubies are actually not worth that much and there are a variety of other treatements in rubies such as diffused, flux healed and reconstituted anyway which can cheapen the price a lot.

I would not dispute, it does not look like a tourmaline from your photos. But by the time youve shipped it return then you wont get much back. Whats more you should really collect some proof -- not just that it doesn't look like a tourmaline. And this should ideally be an appraisal or a lab report. You're likely to run a deficit by the time you are finished.

 

[LightBright]

Cross posted from Colored Stones

UPDATE: Etsy ruled in favor of the seller, who stated that the buyer should have asked questions before I bought a “No Returns” ring. Not sure how I would have known that this was a ruby, not a tourmaline before seeing the ring in person…

Seller was extremely condescending throughout the whole process. (Mea culpa, I literally didn’t notice that she was a No Returns store.) I’m surprised that Etsy lets sellers misrepresent gems… but it should be obvious to me that they do.

Another fun fact. Etsy doesn’t let you review a purchase if you lose a dispute. (Not able to review the purchase at least at this point.)

Etsy closed the case after I provided proof of fluorescence and a photo of a pristine glass like ruby (it was sold as a “Vint-age Pin-k Tourmaline” ring. They also closed the case when I told them I’d be happy to get the gem Presidium tested and would they want that as secondary proof this isn’t a tourmaline. Kind of a joke.

 

[LightBright]

Start by shining a bright torch into the stone, if it is lead glass filled then you may be able to see some bubbles along the filled in fischers. Even if it is a cheap ruby it may not be lead glass filled -- the fish tank gravel quality rubies are actually not worth that much and there are a variety of other treatements in rubies such as diffused, flux healed and reconstituted anyway which can cheapen the price a lot.

I would not dispute, it does not look like a tourmaline from your photos. But by the time youve shipped it return then you wont get much back. Whats more you should really collect some proof -- not just that it doesn't look like a tourmaline. And this should ideally be an appraisal or a lab report. You're likely to run a deficit by the time you are finished.

Thanks for being kind, practical and informative. I will examine the ruby closer with a loupe this weekend. It has a pristine highly polished surface - like a recently frozen ice rink, which makes me think it’s newly glass filled and unworn not “vintage” as seller said it was.

I’ll check it out. It’s an interesting stone for my own education: looking more blueish purple and more internally opaque than my confirmed “heated” but not glass-filled ruby cabochon. Under magnification, it looks like a very interesting “included” ruby, but coated in shiny, pristine glass.

So I suspect glass filled. TBH, my ONLY squeamishness is that it might be LEAD glass. I really draw the line there (heated is fine). I’ve developed a phobia of lead in general. TMI, I know…

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

If you soak it in lemon juice you'll see soon whether it falls apart.

My mother bought a ruby ring overseas. She decided to clean it by soaking it in some lemon juice. It went crumbly and developed lines all over it by the next morning!

 

[LightBright]

If you soak it in lemon juice you'll see soon whether it falls apart.

My mother bought a ruby ring overseas. She decided to clean it by soaking it in some lemon juice. It went crumbly and developed lines all over it by the next morning!

Wow. This would be like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, waiting for a ruby to fall apart, but educational!

I’m disappointed Etsy allows sellers to just claim a stone is whatever they want; as long as they say “No Returns” it’s the buyers fault…

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Wow. This would be like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, waiting for a ruby to fall apart, but educational!

I’m disappointed Etsy allows sellers to just claim whatever they want; as long as they say “No Returns” it’s the buyers fault…

The whole thing looked pretty horrifying (from a gem perspective) by the end of it!!!

She might have tossed it but if I ever find it I'll take pics!

 

[Mreader]

Cross posted from Colored Stones

UPDATE: Etsy ruled in favor of the seller, who stated that the buyer should have asked questions before I bought a “No Returns” ring. Not sure how I would have known that this was a ruby, not a tourmaline before seeing the ring in person…

Seller was extremely condescending throughout the whole process. (Mea culpa, I literally didn’t notice that she was a No Returns store.) I’m surprised that Etsy lets sellers misrepresent gems… but it should be obvious to me that they do.

Another fun fact. Etsy doesn’t let you review a purchase if you lose a dispute. (Not able to review the purchase at least at this point.)

Etsy closed the case after I provided proof of fluorescence and a photo of a pristine glass like ruby (it was sold as a “Vint-age Pin-k Tourmaline” ring. They also closed the case when I told them I’d be happy to get the gem Presidium tested and would they want that as secondary proof this isn’t a tourmaline. Kind of a joke.

That’s very disappointing- I’m so sorry. I am surprised and will be more wary of Etsy purchases in the future.

 

[LightBright]

That’s very disappointing- I’m so sorry. I am surprised and will be more wary of Etsy purchases in the future.

Yes, it was bizarre. Vendor belittled me for not asking the right questions beforehand, not noticing No Returns, and she complimented herself on her very good videos and photos of the vintage Pink Tourmaline listing.

She said among other things:

”I am not sure how the customer could be confused about the color or the clarity given the definition.

If the customer was so worried about the color she should have messaged me before she purchased the ring. As it states in the listing.

I do not believe the ring is a ruby. I believe it is a pink tourmaline. Some pink tourmaline‘s glow under fluorescent light so the pictures that the customer is providing is not sufficient proof.

I do not believe I should have to issue a refund or except one because the customer does not like the ring.”

So it became an issue of customer didn’t like the color and clarity of the ring. Not gem is not same as listed.

I think my point was that I don’t want what I immediately suspected was a newly made ruby ring (which I think is a counterfeit/vintage along the lines of fake “Southwest” Turquoise jewelry). I wanted a vintage pink tourmaline ring as per listing. The differening color and clarity that I reported are exactly why I suspected it’s not a pink tourmaline (they simply don’t fluoresce that way.). Also don’t often appear waxy and cloudy, etc.

I love Etsy and buy stuff on there, but the lesson here is that they do not have the technical support to quibble over gem specifics. Make sure your gem purchased items are all Returns Allowed.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Thanks for being kind, practical and informative. I will examine the ruby closer with a loupe this weekend. It has a pristine highly polished surface - like a recently frozen ice rink, which makes me think it’s newly glass filled and unworn not “vintage” as seller said it was.

I’ll check it out. It’s an interesting stone for my own education: looking more blueish purple and more internally opaque than my confirmed “heated” but not glass-filled ruby cabochon. Under magnification, it looks like a very interesting “included” ruby, but coated in shiny, pristine glass.

So I suspect glass filled. TBH, my ONLY squeamishness is that it might be LEAD glass. I really draw the line there (heated is fine). I’ve developed a phobia of lead in general. TMI, I know…

Lol sorry rereading what I wrote it reads like I am closing a jira ticket and am very abrupt about it.

I'm sorry the three way vendor-etsy exchange was so horrible. Seems like a pretty icky thing to get drawn into, being belittled while also being essentially scammed. I'd try hard to let it go.

There are no lack of vendors for tourmalines, this one for instance is known for selling rough and gemstones to a lot of trade clients.

https://www.instagram.com/gem_dragon_auctions/?hl=en


I guess I am saying that etsy, and the vendor you just bought from need you, far more than you need them. It's really their loss.