etiquette using an Idealscope at the mall or other jewellry stores

[viscera912]

hello everyone,

i was just wondering if anyone had any advice on how to introduce to the store or salesperson that i wish to use an idealscope and check out their diamond? to me it would be a little awkward to just say hi im gonna really put your diamond to the test so just let me do it. i haven''t purchased my scope yet, i plan on doing that this weekend. i wanted to go to the mall and just check out diamonds so i can familiarize myself with the scope and how to use it. are salespeople at malls and other stores open to people handling their diamonds and using tools?

thanks for the replies and i''d love to hear your IS stories!!

jason

 

[JC]

I don''t think that the mall store would mind. They probably won''t know what it is since many retail stores don''t carry ideal scopes, but once thay see it they will obviously see that it won''t cause harm to the diamond. I''m not sure how the ideal scope will help you though seeing that most diamonds that you find in retail stores have already been mounted onto a ring. Anyways, good luck....

 

[oldminer]

Just tell the salesperson you want to examine the stone with your loupe. If they want to know about why it is pink inside, then you can fill them in with the details. I doubt most will care. It won''t be too upsetting for them as they are used to consumers wanting to see into the stones they show. I don''t think it is so much an issue of etiquette as it is just a matter that you are going to be using something they may have never seen before. They will be curious for the most part.

The endless use of cell phones during a sales pitchj is much more an issue of etiquette. I have seen customers engage in long phone calls while the salesperson waits and have even seen a few salespeople take their own phone calls while the customer stood at the counter. Now, those things are etiquette issues.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

I''ve been wondering the same thing since getting my scope just before Christmas.

Tho its worth bearing in mind that if you buy the scope from Gary, i think the pro scope at least, comes with a little 1ct Cubic Zercona stone thats i believe Ideal Cut, for you to have a bench mark to check a diamond against. if not, you can always add in the CZ for a couple of dollars. i got with another little toy - 2 CZs, one marked ''standard'' and the other marked H&A Ideal Cut. that certainly helps you spot the differances in the cuts, plus being CZs it doesnt matter so much while you learn how to handle those tricky little stones into position in the tweezers

I believe i read one piece of advice somewhere (might have been Gary''s site that let the Jewellers put the diamond into the locking tweezers themselves before you handle it, then you cant be accused of scratching or damaging it... if its already in a ring, it''ll be easier to handle, but i guess harder to tell the cut... and depending on the setting of the Diamond in the ring.


And I''ll put my disclaimer here that I am a complete beginner in the world of Diamonds... so what i say may be horse manure.

 

[eks6426]

I took my idealscope to the mall stores and the reactions were mixed. Some sales people were very oblivious, a few were interested, but quite a few of them almost seemed offended...I sort of got the feeling that they knew once I started really looking at the diamonds for brillance they wouldn''t get the sale. Keep in mind these were mall stores where the "featured" stone was often a 1.5 carat round, J, SI2 or lower...some of the big stones were even I level clarity...I could see the black inclusions easily. Needless to say the sales people''s fears were right...they didn''t get the sale.

Have fun with your idealscope if you get it. I got the basic model and it was more than sufficient!

 

[codex57]

I haven''t run into any that have been offended yet. Most don''t know what it is. Those are the funniest. Two actually said to me after I inspected the stone, "See, didn''t I tell you? That stone is gorgeous!" (No they were not).

At the store where I actually bought my stone from, my salesgirl (Amy) was hilarious. She was like, "Ok, my turn! I wanna see! Show me how to use this." No BS at all. Just curiosity and the excitement most girls have when looking at jewelry. Definitely not a jaded salesperson. Then, she''d offer to let me use their Hearts and Arrow viewer by going, "ohh, we have something similar. Wanna see?" And again, after I looked, "ok, my turn! I wanna see. Ooh, pretty."

 

[ame]

Well, Id never been in a mall store but Ive whipped out my loupe at the two B&M stores I go through and they encourage it. I had one guy bring me the 30x loupe and ask if Id like to use their brilliance scope.

 

[WinkHPD]

This would be more the responce I would expect from a high quality store.

At my office they can use my microscopescope, my idealscope scope, my firescope and my loupe if they wish. I will almost always offer to show a client under the scope the first few times they come in. More and more they don't want to after we have done business a time or two. Others of course will ask me if I have any cool inclusions to show them this week.

Coolest yet was the 13 billion year old replica of the runabout from Deep Space Nine that a lady has in her diamond. It was an eye visible pinpoint and an incredible sight at ten to thirty powers. They were trekkies, so the value of that stone far exceeds to them any D-IF that I might have offered in trade.

Wink

Just for fun, here is an inclusion from an amethyst...

 

[belle]

Date: 1/7/2005 12:17

4 PM
Author: codex57
I haven''t run into any that have been offended yet. Most don''t know what it is. Those are the funniest. Two actually said to me after I inspected the stone, ''See, didn''t I tell you? That stone is gorgeous!'' (No they were not).

At the store where I actually bought my stone from, my salesgirl (Amy) was hilarious. She was like, ''Ok, my turn! I wanna see! Show me how to use this.'' No BS at all. Just curiosity and the excitement most girls have when looking at jewelry. Definitely not a jaded salesperson. Then, she''d offer to let me use their Hearts and Arrow viewer by going, ''ohh, we have something similar. Wanna see?'' And again, after I looked, ''ok, my turn! I wanna see. Ooh, pretty.''

i can just see it, light leaking out everywhere, and the salesperson interprets it as sparkle...."see, i told you it was gorgeous!"

good luck, i''m sure it will be very educational!!

 

[WinkHPD]

I always thought of that wonderful inclusion that it was a genie''s bottle. Here is what happens to a genie''s bottle if it reenters the atmosphere too quickly. Special thanks to photoshop...

Wink

P.S. Any place that does not want you to use all of the tools that they have or that you have to buy your diamond, is NOT a place where you want to buy your diamond.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

that is soooo cooool Wink!!!!!

Yeah - I think most jewelers are curious - but you will find many who know what it is and know as soon as you pull it out they are wasting their time with you (i.e. less than 10% of their stones will pass muster)

read up on the ideal-scope site about looking at mounted stones

We also have the grabbing tweezers which are easy for novices

 

[ame]

How in the heck do you get an inclusion like the DS9 ship? IS that something they drill in or am I a moron.

 

[ame]

Ill have to bother you to help me when I get myself an Ideal Scope. Ill wanna look at my wedding band to show my fiance what good quality those little thingies are. And Im sure he will wanna see my engagement ring up close. I checked out the site about mounted stuff. Ill do something to make it hard to figure out.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 1/7/2005 3:37:19 PM
Author: ame
How in the heck do you get an inclusion like the DS9 ship? IS that something they drill in or am I a moron.

Neither! God included it in the Diamond some 12 or 13 Billion years ago when it formed deep within the earth. It just happens to look exactly like the runnabout from DS9. As I said, to them it is now more valuable than a D-IF of the same size. Inclusions can be absolutely stunning in their beauty and sometimes are much more fun to look at than a Flawless diamond, even if they cost much less. Perhaps in the future diamonds will be graded not only for their inclusions, but for the "coolness" of their inclusions and a premium paid for really neat ones. (Relax, I know thiis will never happen.)

There is a book called Wonders Within Gemstones that has an incredible valentine heart shaped cloud within a diamond. I bet that stone is not for sale either! Gemological tools allow us to see the treasures within our stones. Paper buyers would deny that they can enhance the stone with their beauty, but I say we should relish the uniqueness of each diamond and colored gem.

Wink

 

[belle]

1. but I say we should relish the uniqueness of each diamond and colored gem.
   
   yes!!! i agree!! unique and beautiful........

 

[ame]

...

 

[ame]

Date: 1/7/2005 3:48:19 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 1/7/2005 3:37:19 PM

Author: ame

How in the heck do you get an inclusion like the DS9 ship? IS that something they drill in or am I a moron.

Neither! God included it in the Diamond some 12 or 13 Billion years ago when it formed deep within the earth. It just happens to look exactly like the runnabout from DS9. As I said, to them it is now more valuable than a D-IF of the same size. Inclusions can be absolutely stunning in their beauty and sometimes are much more fun to look at than a Flawless diamond, even if they cost much less. Perhaps in the future diamonds will be graded not only for their inclusions, but for the ''coolness'' of their inclusions and a premium paid for really neat ones. (Relax, I know thiis will never happen.)


There is a book called Wonders Within Gemstones that has an incredible valentine heart shaped cloud within a diamond. I bet that stone is not for sale either! Gemological tools allow us to see the treasures within our stones. Paper buyers would deny that they can enhance the stone with their beauty, but I say we should relish the uniqueness of each diamond and colored gem.


Wink

Allright. Now begins my quest to find an inclusion just like the ship in red Dwarf.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 1/7/2005 4

8

3 PM
Author: ame

Allright. Now begins my quest to find an inclusion just like the ship in red Dwarf.

Aha! Another RD fan!

 

[viscera912]

good afternoon to everyone

thanks for the replies, i''m sorta looking forward to hearing a salesperson say, "see, didn''t i tell you it was gorgeous,"

that was quite humourous. i sorta figured out that most mall''s or b&m''s would frown upon people bringing in tools that they do not recognize or even like. the beauty is that i don''t even plan to purchase diamonds from them, i just want a scope so i can see what kind of diamonds they sell at the mall and educate myself in the usage of the scope. i had wrote about a mall experience i had about some months ago and it was just SO interesting to see the quality of stones they have there. sadly, many men go to purchase from those stores because they know no better. i have been trying to tell my guy friends about researching PS and the PS vendors here before going out to the mall''s and getting ripped off. most of the guys around my age (23) are getting engaged now and don''t really care to learn about the diamonds; its too hard and takes too much time they say. its so easy to go to the mall and get something from zales and lose so much money.

anyway, the whole purpose of me obtaining a scope was to take it to india this summer. if you read my posting of "puchasing diamonds in india" 2 days ago you would be famliar with that topic. in short i am visiting family in india and thought i could snag a great diamond over there a little cheaper than here in the states; im a poor 2nd yr med student

however, i would not have the luxury of mailing the diamond to an appraiser and have them verify the quality of the diamond before purchasing. thus, if i had the scope i could use that as a great weeding out tool in my venture. however, before i would take the scope there i would have to learn how to use it and this is where going to the mall fits in the picture. i was just unsure of how to approach it. most likely i am going to end up purchasing from a PS vendor but who knows maybe ill find something nice over there. of course, places like GOG, Winfields, WF ,and other, use the IS regularly and educating myself in using the scope will help me later when interpreting a scope from any of their collections.

anyway, have to head out to class but thanks ya''ll for the replies, ( ooops, my texas twang came in with the "ya''ll"...hows that for a mix-- eastern indian nationality but born and raised texan....) if there is any more experiences id love to hear it!

jason

ps
gary, if you read this, do you have any information regarding the indian diamond industry or suggestions of places to go? thanks!

 

[ame]

I bought the fi the first 4 seasons on DVD. Its not a favrite of mine per se, but he''s a little more than obsessed with it.

 

[viscera912]

if that was a genie....could i have a princess cut stone with dk reds and blacks in the scope and weigh possibly 1.5 carats, and be clear as......oh boy stop dreaming, must go to class!!!!!!

 

[strmrdr]

I think a large red inclusion right in the middle of the table of a diamond would be awesome.
But then again I have the idea of having a super-ideal diamonds cutlet cut back to large and mounting a ruby under it so it showed a large red dot in the center!

 

[perry]

I have introduced the IdealScope to a number of different stores. In most cases the conversation goes something like this after they pull out their best diamonds in my size range.

I ask have they even heard of looking for light leakage in a diamond (most haven''t) and I mention that I have a tool to check that and pull out my packet of things (Ideal scope, Ideal Light, tweezers, loupe, etc) Note that sometimes I pull this packet out earlier as some stores don''t seem to have locking tweezers or loups...

In only one store were they familiar with it, and sevearl indicated that they would be interested in getting the IS for their own use (and copied down the web site). These jewelers also used my IdealScope to inspect other diamonds they had to see how they looked. I will note that the two stores interested focused on better than average cut diamonds anyway (one had hearts on fire).

Of course, a lot of sales clerks are interested in seeing what I can see.

Perry

 

[valeria101]

Specking about cool inclusions... Got this poster and everyone asks me "who''se the artist"

It comes from here.

 

[WinkHPD]

Couldn''t see your link, but that is a cool picture!

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

I show idealscopes to jewelers and teach them how to use it regularly. Routinely it''s because some customer has come into the store with one and the employee was unfamiliar with it. When a consumer shows up with a new tool, it''s always a little uncomfortable because there some security concerns about what they are doing. For this reason always ask for permission before you just pick up their stone and start using your own equipment and, if they offer it, use their tools in preference to your own. I think you will find that they are more worried about customers who supply their own tweezers than customers with their own loupes and idealscopes. Offer to show them the tool and let them examine it if they wish and teach them the basics of how to use it.

Garry is right that this will immediately pigeonhole you as a particular type of customer. It means that you''ve been internet educated. Some jewelers may see this as a problem but it''s mostly in your best interest to get this issue out of the way early. It''s true after all. They are facing some pretty stiff competition and if they don''t feel that they are up to it then they are better off to resign early on. There are high quality stores almost everywhere that would love the opportunity to earn your business. Using your idealscope will only serve to help them find exactly the right ring for you.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Maxine]

Neil, you are absolutely right....although I/we are a pain as customers to some extent, my jeweler says it helps all of us (jeweller/customer) that we know what we are looking for...it makes it easire for everyone...if we request a certain quality of goods , and he can deliver at a fair price, then everyone is happy...a good relationship is formed...I know that if I were to order in an item preset with stones, he would specify with his order that those stones be inspected and hand picked....

 

[viscera912]

hi everyone

this is in response to Feydakin''s response....

I am sorry if the words I said came across to you that way. By no means am I intending to use anyone that works in b&m stores or in the mall. However, for someone who has no knowledge about diamonds beforehand they are going to go to the mall because where else are you going to go to learn. That doesn''t mean that they are going to purchase a stone right then and there. A smart buyer will shop around and look at various stores, does this mean they are going to take up a sales person''s time, yes, does it mean that they are potentially taking the salesperson away from a more potential sale, yes. But this is the way everyone shops no matter WHAT they are shopping for. I don''t find a difference in shopping for a diamond over shopping for a stereo system. What is the difference between going to Zales and learning about diamonds as opposed to going to Best Buy and playing around with the stereo''s? I am probably going to be taking away a salesperson from making a sale to someone else, but correct me if I am wrong, this is the way most people shop. I do not feel bad for going into a diamond store, asking to look at some diamonds, utilizing a new tool that I have to look at them, and learning more about diamonds. I see that you put a qoute of mine into your response, it says, "I just want a scope so I can see what kind of diamonds they sell at the mall," that is considered shopping. That is not considered a person trying to waste someone elses time. I am sorry if you feel that I am being unfair Feydakin. This is a good place to mention that I am not trying to expose stores that carry less then perfect diamonds, however, its fair knowledge that the diamonds at the stores in the mall do not carry the best quality of diamonds. Anyway, again I am sorry if you feel that I am being unfair. I can only tell you I am just shopping like anyone else would.

Have a great weekend everybody and watch the NFL playoff''s!!!!

jason

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/8/2005 9:17:39 AM
Author: Feydakin

Ok, I need to comment here.. I have no issues with people coming into stores to see diamonds as long as they are giving the stores a fair chance to sell you a diamond.. To go into a store just to use them like this is not only unfair, but wasteful of their time and money.. Especially if there are other customers in the store.. You wouldn''t got to Barnes and Noble, grab a magazine off the rack and sit inthe isle, read it, put it back, then say thanks as you head out the door would you??

I gotta speak up here. You may not like it, but I don''t think you''ve actually stepped into a Barnes and Noble, Best Buy, or any car dealer''s lot. Those are just some examples of retail stores where the customer often goes in to look at things and never intends to buy them. For B&N, it''s usually cuz they''re just killing time. For the other stuff, it''s often in their research phase where they''re learning about what they want in a certain product (like HDTV''s).

I think the car dealer is the closest example to a jewelry store. Most regular customers go in not knowing all that much about the product. They want to test drive, learn about the features, etc. Plus, the salespeople there don''t have teh greatest reputation for honesty. Same goes for jewelry stores. I''m sure you''re one of the above board ones, but you have to admit there are many in your field who are not.

That''s the whole point of an I-S. To tell when the salesperson is lying. If you do a good sales job, you can convince a person who had no intention of buying to actually buy. In the case of a customer holding an I-S, it''s usually cuz you''re showing a stone that''s nice and fits their requirements. I was lied (IMO) to many times concerngin teh quality of the stone. This was even at personally recommended stores. I wandered around and eventually found a store mentioned on this board several times. I told them I was looking and they produced some stones. B/c of their sales attitude and the fact that they didn''t lie to me, they convinced me to buy their stone, even tho I was just looking.

The informed customers are harder sells. Usually it''s cuz they''ve been lied to so many times. However, you can hook them if you''ve got the goods and are honest. I don''t see why anyone should feel sorry for those mall stores we use to practice looking at stones using the I-S for. They almost always push off crap claiming it''s "beautiful" or some other adjective that doesn''t fit. You say the customer is wasting the salesperson''s time. BS. The salesperson is wasting the customer''s time with the crap they pull out. Goes both ways.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 1/9/2005 4:20:41 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 1/8/2005 9:17:39 AM
Author: Feydakin

Ok, I need to comment here.. I have no issues with people coming into stores to see diamonds as long as they are giving the stores a fair chance to sell you a diamond.. To go into a store just to use them like this is not only unfair, but wasteful of their time and money.. Especially if there are other customers in the store.. You wouldn''t got to Barnes and Noble, grab a magazine off the rack and sit inthe isle, read it, put it back, then say thanks as you head out the door would you??

I was lied (IMO) to many times concerngin teh quality of the stone. This was even at personally recommended stores. I wandered around and eventually found a store mentioned on this board several times. I told them I was looking and they produced some stones. B/c of their sales attitude and the fact that they didn''t lie to me, they convinced me to buy their stone, even tho I was just looking.

This is always going to be a vexed issue - and even more so as consumers in all industries do more shopping via the Internet. eg cameras etc.

Re Being "lied" to Codex - this may be a bit strong. Many people in the industry for example would show you an AGS 0 diamond and say it is the best you can get because it is "ideal cut". We know however that AGS are changing their system because it did not work so well and a fairly large # of diamonds that were AGS 0 will no longer be AGS 0. Now is that person "lying" or could we very reasonably say they are ill-informed. The same is true of many in the industry who genuinely believe a 60:60 diamond is as good as it gets. (interestingly AGS will include many well cut 60:60''s in their new AGS 0 cut grade

)