Etiquette to ask for a GIA grading report

[heiny]

This forum has been a wealth of knowledge and has helped tremendously. I've been shopping around for an oval diamond and a jeweler has a H/SI1 which he said has an ABI grading cert. Of course he said this is comparable to GIA, which I know is not true. After looking at the report it's really an IGI graded stone. The IGI report summary I pulled up online is dated 2004.

His price is very good, but I want the stone graded by GIA. Is it appropriate/common to request a jeweler to send it to GIA? The stone looks good to the naked eye, but I'm hardly capable of judging how good it looks, and I'm not comfortable with trusting the IGI grading. Also, I imagine the cost of sending it out will be incurred by me?

Any recommendations on how to approach this?

 

[WinkHPD]

This forum has been a wealth of knowledge and has helped tremendously. I've been shopping around for an oval diamond and a jeweler has a H/SI1 which he said has an ABI grading cert. Of course he said this is comparable to GIA, which I know is not true. After looking at the report it's really an IGI graded stone. The IGI report summary I pulled up online is dated 2004.

His price is very good, but I want the stone graded by GIA. Is it appropriate/common to request a jeweler to send it to GIA? The stone looks good to the naked eye, but I'm hardly capable of judging how good it looks, and I'm not comfortable with trusting the IGI grading. Also, I imagine the cost of sending it out will be incurred by me?

Any recommendations on how to approach this?

There were rare occasions in the distant past when I was primarily a Bricks and Mortar store when I had a diamond with a report other than GIA or AGS. Or actually, more often, when I had a diamond, graded by me, with no laboratory report. It was very rare for me to be asked to acquire a new report as I was an established and trusted jeweler in Boise.

However, when ever I was, here was my response. "I will be happy to get you a GIA report on this diamond. You can pay me now for the diamond, taking it off the market and when it returns, if the report is as I say it is or better, then you will pay for the report. If the report is lower than I say it is, then I will pay for the report and either refund your money or adjust the price, your choice."

I only remember one time when someone took me up on it, and it was a doozy of a mistake by GIA.

I had a 2ct plus diamond that I brought in for my client to look at. My vendor graded it a J-VS1 and I thought he was a bit too tight on the clarity grade. I told my client I would guarantee a J-VS1 but that although I agreed with the J color (it was just on the darker side of my I-J split grade color master diamond, making it a solid J) I also told him that I felt there was a good chance the diamond would return as a VVS2.

He agreed to pay for the stone with the caveat that he could return it if it was lower in either color or clarity.

The diamond came back an H-VVS2. My client of course was ecstatic, but less than pleased when I added a line to his receipt that I disagreed with the color grade. I made it very clear to him that it was a lucky cert and that if it ever came back after a recert that I had no liability and got him to sign that comment on the receipt.

Sorry, rambling again. If you offer to pay for the report if it matches the grade he is assigning it, then he has nothing to be offended about.

Just my thoughts. But do understand, no lab is 100% correct and it is trade practice to accept a plus or minus of one grade.
So if your vendor is off by one clarity or color grade it does not make him a bad person, but if the grade is off on both by two or more grades, you may wish to only look at diamonds with documentation from either AGS or GIA. I always recommend that, but since we know that this did not happen with the stone you re looking at now, then you can make him a fair offer of paying for the paper if it turns out his existing paper was good.

Wink

 

[heiny]

Thanks for the response. I wouldn't be opposed to the scenario you gave your customers. I'm still planning on shopping around, I was just turned off by him telling me it was ABI graded when on the bottom of that report said IGI.

I may be getting defensive in my search as some of the people I've talked to so far are pushy and/or quoting me crazy prices for EGL stones. It's been a stressful search to say the least

 

[WinkHPD]

Thanks for the response. I wouldn't be opposed to the scenario you gave your customers. I'm still planning on shopping around, I was just turned off by him telling me it was ABI graded when on the bottom of that report said IGI.

I may be getting defensive in my search as some of the people I've talked to so far are pushy and/or quoting me crazy prices for EGL stones. It's been a stressful search to say the least

You are welcome. If someone is pushy and pushing EGL papered stones I have only one response:

(Done in metallic sounding police megaphone drama voice)

Walk away from the stone, I repeat, put the stone down and walk away from the stone! (Make static cut off noise here) chhhhk.

Wink

 

[Rockdiamond]

Great story Wink!
If I may ask- what shape was the 2ct stone in question?

heiny- I agree 100% with Wink- sellers pushing EGL graded stones are a real problem to the industry.
When I say "Pushing" I mean suggesting that the non GIA report is in any way comparable to a GIA report.
There's nothing wrong with a diamond simply because it has an EGL report- or no report at all.

So, it's not the stone itself that is a problem- what really irks me, and tarnishes the trade as a whole, are selling practices that include using the lack of proper grading as a tool mislead buyers.
heiny- taking the example of the stone you are looking at: If this is a relatively sizable stone ( say grater than .70ct) the seller actually believed that GIA would grade the diamond H/SI1, there would be no reason for them not to send the stone to GIA and have the report done.
So, what you believe to be well priced might not actually be so. It might be- but we'd really nee to see the GIA report to figure that out.
At the wholesale level, the GIA grade determines the price.
If the stone that Wink was talking about is truly a J color- but GIA graded it H, it will go for a lot more than a stone getting J color from GIA. It would likely go for the low end of H, in terms of price- but that's still more than J.
Knowing Wink as I do, I'll bet 's right about the color- but I'm also sure he'll agree that GIA making such an error is a truly rare occurrence

 

[WinkHPD]

Great story Wink!
If I may ask- what shape was the 2ct stone in question?

heiny- I agree 100% with Wink- sellers pushing EGL graded stones are a real problem to the industry.
When I say "Pushing" I mean suggesting that the non GIA report is in any way comparable to a GIA report.
There's nothing wrong with a diamond simply because it has an EGL report- or no report at all.

So, it's not the stone itself that is a problem- what really irks me, and tarnishes the trade as a whole, are selling practices that include using the lack of proper grading as a tool mislead buyers.
heiny- taking the example of the stone you are looking at: If this is a relatively sizable stone ( say grater than .70ct) the seller actually believed that GIA would grade the diamond H/SI1, there would be no reason for them not to send the stone to GIA and have the report done.
So, what you believe to be well priced might not actually be so. It might be- but we'd really nee to see the GIA report to figure that out.
At the wholesale level, the GIA grade determines the price.
If the stone that Wink was talking about is truly a J color- but GIA graded it H, it will go for a lot more than a stone getting J color from GIA. It would likely go for the low end of H, in terms of price- but that's still more than J.
Knowing Wink as I do, I'll bet 's right about the color- but I'm also sure he'll agree that GIA making such an error is a truly rare occurrence

While I have seen a few other "lucky certs" I have never seen another this heinous. It was a round diamond and when I called the vendor to tell him the report grade he scoffed, "Then send me the extra 4 grand the diamond is worth." (This was prior to 1998 as I was still in the downstairs office at the building I was in. I moved upstairs in late 1998. I vividly remembering looking out of my cave-like office in wonder when I opened the report.

I felt like I did my duty when I advised my client that in no way did I agree with the grade given by GIA and got him to sign that he had been so advised. Given the huge gap in value today, I would would insist on returning the diamond for a recheck.

Wink

 

[heiny]

FYI - the stone is 1.81 carats. The stone plus a relatively simple halo setting (custom made) was quoted at $8,500. This price is after me trading in roughly $3k worth of jewelry. Another reason I'm questioning the grading is this seems too good to be true pricing wise.

 

[WinkHPD]

I found one 1.81 ct oval diamond with GIA report as an H-SI1 at a little over $13k for just the diamond. After your 3k trade that would leave just over 10k for the stone. Assuming that the halo mount is worth at least $1000 sight unseen and without knowing anything else about it, it would seem as if you are right to question the validity of the diamond grade. Unless it is second hand, of course, then any price could happen.

If you like the look of the stone, ask for the report, but do not be surprised to find out that the grade is indeed not what it is supposed to be.

Please note that I have no way to know anything about this diamond or its actual grade. I may even be out of line by guessing. The GIA report will give you the ammo you need to fight for a lower price if you like the stone, or to walk away if it is too far off. We really can not offer you much more help until we know what we are actually helping you with. As always, even with the GIA report, you must still see the stone to know if YOUR eyes like it. You have the advantage of knowing that YOURS do.

Wink

 

[heiny]

I understand completely, thanks for all your help wink!

I wouldn't mind if the grading is off one grade, but I agree it could give me room to negotiate or do something totally different.

 

[WinkHPD]

I understand completely, thanks for all your help wink!

I wouldn't mind if the grading is off one grade, but I agree it could give me room to negotiate or do something totally different.

You are welcome. I should further state that I made no effort to analyze the diamond I found, I have no idea if it is good or bad, it is just the only one I found in the 1.8 to 1.85ct range that was an H-SI1.

Good luck!

Wink

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You said the diamond looks okay to you but you really don't know too much about oval cuts, right? Before even considering sending the stone to GIA, you need to be sure the stone is even worth considering. Try to get a magnified photo of any oval you look at and you can post it here and we can try to help you. Ovals are harder to buy than certain other stones and the cut is very important. I would also suggest looking at a site such as James Allen http://www.jamesallen.com/ which will show you magnified videos of each stone (and they will also provide ASET light return images for three stones). You will also have great price comps because they have competitive prices. I personally would prefer GIA H color or maybe I color at the lowest in an oval. I think you may see some tint in a J the way they are cut.

One more thing. That diamond is quite likely a terrible deal. I don't think I would consider dealing with a jeweler who flat out lied to me.

 

[denverappraiser]

Wink,

I’ve had at least a dozen clients who have made that same offer to the seller. As far as I know, not a single one has agreed to it.

In defense of the jewelers, it’s not always an option. It’s quite common that they are selling stones owned by someone else. Pulling it off the market for 2 months while they wait for GIA or even the 2 weeks to do the ‘rush’ service means that THEY have to pay for it, and if their supplier doesn’t have a return policy, which most don’t, that means that if it comes out badly THEY have to take it into inventory. That’s an expensive bet.

 

[WinkHPD]

Wink,

I’ve had at least a dozen clients who have made that same offer to the seller. As far as I know, not a single one has agreed to it.

In defense of the jewelers, it’s not always an option. It’s quite common that they are selling stones owned by someone else. Pulling it off the market for 2 months while they wait for GIA or even the 2 weeks to do the ‘rush’ service means that THEY have to pay for it, and if their supplier doesn’t have a return policy, which most don’t, that means that if it comes out badly THEY have to take it into inventory. That’s an expensive bet.

I could have sworn I responded to this yesterday, but I do not see it. Amazing what a little cough syrup can do for your memory...

I agree, this usually only works if the seller actually owns the diamond. One of the reasons I worked so consistently with the vendor who owned that diamond is that he actually graded the stones on a par with GIA, which, as you know, is very rare in the diamond world. With very few exceptions, I found it impossible to buy fairly graded diamonds without a GIA report as grade and price creep are rampant in unpapered diamonds. My vendor agreed because if he did not get the grade we both knew we would get on that diamond he would end up with a paper at my cost that would make it quicker and easier to sell the diamond.

Wink

 

[Rockdiamond]

Good point Neil- it's not always the person selling the diamond to the consumer who can make the decision to send a diamond to GIA....but it IS in a professional seller's power to inform the consumer of the problems associated with the lack of GIA report. And if we take a longer view, in a case where a jeweler is offering a diamond owned by a dealer or cutter, everyone on the supply chain knows full well the benefits/liabilities of the GIA report.
In just about all cases, whenever a consumer approaches us with a diamond to sell that lacks a GIA report, we let them know that it's in their best interest to have a GIA report drawn so they know what they have. Unless it's a really poor quality, the GIA report will generally benefit a private seller as well.

heiny - I suppose the point has been well made...if a diamond being offered by a jeweler looks too good to be true, in a case like this, it most likely is.